Flight Pay increases

[cragspider]

Looks like Big Blue is finally raising our flight pay . 6 years only gets a $50 increase while the 14 year guys goes down to 12 years now at $1k. But we have to worry about our guys being able to jump to the airlines at 750 hours.  

[Bergman]

Hell yeah, a $160/month raise?!?!  Screw that $200,000/year airline job now!!

 

All sarcasm aside, its a step in the right direction but honestly a drop in the bucket, and likely the wrong bucket at that.  Let's work on decent leadership and looking out for your people.

 

[Orbit]

This is bullshit.

[aeroplanez]

53 minutes ago, Bergman said:

Hell yeah, a $160/month raise?!?!  Screw that $200,000/year airline job now!!

 

All sarcasm aside, its a step in the right direction but honestly a drop in the bucket, and likely the wrong bucket at that.  Let's work on decent leadership and looking out for your people.

 

This is not a step in the right direction. This is another attempt from the air force to get out of this jam on the cheap.  So me, as an O-4 with 10 years of aviation service, high time IP/EP.... $50 dollar a month bump?  Yeah, no I'm out.  It's really insulting actually that they tried to pass this off as a revolutionary incentive to get us to stay in.  

[raimius]

So, those looking at leaving get a 0.5% pay raise?  Yeah, that'll make the difference.
 

I won't say "no" to $50 more a month, but the AF is kidding themselves if they think that would sway people's decision.

[DFRESH]

Shack. It's more insulting than helpful.

[BashiChuni]

There's no $$$ figure the AF could realistically pay to keep me around past ADSC 

[MooseAg03]

Should have been at least $350 to account for inflation since 1999 for the $650 bracket. Something above that would have been a positive indicator, but this just shows how out of touch senior management is.

[Duck]

I'm gonna use the extra $50/month to pay for Emerald Coast. Thanks Air Force!

[matmacwc]

4 hours ago, Bergman said:

Hell yeah, a $160/month raise?!?!  Screw that $200,000/year airline job now!!

 

All sarcasm aside, its a step in the right direction but honestly a drop in the bucket, and likely the wrong bucket at that.  Let's work on decent leadership and looking out for your people.

 

I know guys making $50K a month in the majors, where is this $200K a year talk coming from?

[the g-man]

3 hours ago, MooseAg03 said:

Should have been at least $350 $650 to account for inflation since 1999  1989 for the $650 bracket. Something above that would have been a positive indicator, but this just shows how out of touch senior management is.

FIFY

[the g-man]

On 7/15/2017 at 3:15 PM, the g-man said:

I finally went and did some digging on this... It's a load of shit quite frankly...

 

https://www.gpo.gov/fdsys/pkg/PLAW-114publ328/pdf/PLAW-114publ328.pdf On PDF page 161 of this document (the FY 2017 NDAA) you will find this text

 

 

So what does this mean?  Well here you find what they amended: 

https://uscode.house.gov/download/annualhistoricalarchives/pdf/2012/2012usc37.pdf  On PDF page 123 you will find this text:

 

Earlier in Title 37 there is a table that lists the ACIP rates as you find them in the DFAS pay charts, the max is $840.  So all they did in the 2017 NDAA is up that max allowed rate $150.  Peanuts.  $150 more authorized on a piece of US code that has not been touched since 1989.

 

Now the House just passed HR 2810 which you will find no mention of ACIP, however in this bill they did increase max bonus to $50k.

 

Bottom line; what's the deal here?  Do military aviators not have a good lobby or advocate in DC?  It seems the MOAA is more concerned with retirees than people on active duty.  Have we had our heads in the clouds (literally and figuratively) for too long that we have been afraid to bring up the compensation issue as part of the grander pilot retention program?  Why has nobody been paying attention to this facet of being a military aviator?  What do we need to do to bring attention to this issue?  

It's my belief that if you hook them up early, combined with a bonus at the end of their commitment aviators may be less fed up and ready to punch at the 10 y 1 d after getting those wings.

Yeah I'm quoting myself from the ACP thread.  Quotes within quotes got stripped so see how it should actually look here:

 

Nobody should be blindsided that this increase is a joke.

Edited August 26, 2017 by the g-man
added content

[MooseAg03]

FIFY

I was just using the date that big blue referenced in the article for the last change. Guess I should know better than to trust anything they say.

[the g-man]

11 minutes ago, MooseAg03 said:

I was just using the date that big blue referenced in the article for the last change. Guess I should know better than to trust anything they say.

Ah yes, re-reading the article it does mention it...

Quote

Air Force incentive pay for aviators with less than six years of aviation service hasn’t been increased since 1980. The most recent changes to incentive pay were made in 1999.

So I guess in 1999 they upped the 6 year to it's current level.  With no changes to the under six, LOL!

 

So we are clear, that's when the AF or DoD changed it.  1989 is when congress upped it to $850 and 2016 they increased to $1000.

Edited August 26, 2017 by the g-man

[Bergman]

7 hours ago, matmacwc said:

I know guys making $50K a month in the majors, where is this $200K a year talk coming from?

I've met a few guys who are making that kind of money, but if we are being honest they are very, very senior in their category and also work their asses off.

I'm a commuter that only works 12-15 days a month at the airline due to ANG commitments (I know, I know...I need to retire already), and I don't do any short-notice premium pay flying, so that's where my $200k number came from.

The captain I flew with last week mentioned he made $180k/year working 8 days a month.  Buys his own first class tickets to get to/from work and doesn't have a care in the world.  I want to be like that guy!

[SocialD]

4 hours ago, gearpig said:

I flew with a Captain (former F-15 guy) who cleared his July 2017 schedule with vacation. He picked up as much time-and-a-half open time as was possible within the duty limits.

$89K before per diem, 401K, profit sharing, and taxes. Ridiculous.

This is why I hope our contract never allows us the ability to sell back or work over our vacation.

[FUSEPLUG]

11 hours ago, DFRESH said:

Shack. It's more insulting than helpful.

But guys... we get to roll our sleeves up now too!!

[DirtyFlightSuit]

Yah no raise would have been less harmful than a $50 raise.    At least with no raise it was business as usual, the 50 a month extra is kind of like "See we VALUE YOU SOOO MUCH.... 50 dollars much...."  Rather have had nothing and at least they couldn't pretend to be retards posting big stories about how serious they are about retention.  

[Steve C]

As a >12 <14 yr guy i'm not upset about earning an extra $350/mo, $4,200/yr.  Add that to O5 promo next year and the bonus and I'll be right about $150k/yr.  It's not airline bucks but it's definitely enough to have plenty of extracurricular activities and keep the family comfortable.  And with the 11F shortage making O5 and flying an entire career is now a thing.  Get rid of meaningless 365s/179s and staying to 20 looks pretty good from my vantage point.  YMMV.

[matmacwc]

4 hours ago, Bergman said:

I've met a few guys who are making that kind of money, but if we are being honest they are very, very senior in their category and also work their asses off.

I'm a commuter that only works 12-15 days a month at the airline due to ANG commitments (I know, I know...I need to retire already), and I don't do any short-notice premium pay flying, so that's where my $200k number came from.

The captain I flew with last week mentioned he made $180k/year working 8 days a month.  Buys his own first class tickets to get to/from work and doesn't have a care in the world.  I want to be like that guy!

I shot for the middle, I've seen $70k thrown around as well.  What will really turn your turnip is that these are Southwest guys, wouldn't think this is possible, and they are not extremely senior either.  Ever heard of the cartels?  Some sort of bidding system to make this work.

[dream big]

When will these freaking bean counters realize that throwing money at the problem isn't going to do squat?  Thanks for the $50 pay raise, but it isn't stopping me from bailing for Delta/UA/AA etc with a $200+ potential.  Do any of these "leaders" have the cajones to solve the deep rooted leadership problems in the Air Force?  Some of the solutions and answers are complicated but some are easy fixes: separate promotion boards for rated, homesteading instead of PCSing every 3 years, pure flying track/eliminating up or out, get rid of 99% of the CBTs.

[matmacwc]

32 minutes ago, dream big said:

When will these freaking bean counters realize that throwing money at the problem isn't going to do squat?  Thanks for the $50 pay raise, but it isn't stopping me from bailing for Delta/UA/AA etc with a $200+ potential.  Do any of these "leaders" have the cajones to solve the deep rooted leadership problems in the Air Force?  Some of the solutions and answers are complicated but some are easy fixes: separate promotion boards for rated, homesteading instead of PCSing every 3 years, pure flying track/eliminating up or out, get rid of 99% of the CBTs.

Make it more of a club than a fortune 500 company, you'd keep darn near everyone.  

[Bergman]

1 hour ago, matmacwc said:

Make it more of a club than a fortune 500 company, you'd keep darn near everyone.  

Truth.  Air Force circa 1985-1990 sounds about right for starters.

All airline talk aside, if the AF was serious about using money to aid retention, they would have doubled the previous aviator bonuses.  $1000/mo increase would at least get people's attention.

Edit to add: OBTW, give ARC guys the full flight pay whether they fly or not that month, just like AD.  End this pro-rating the flight pay to a daily rate bullshit. 

Edited August 27, 2017 by Bergman

[Scooter14]

Bergman,

Are you suggesting that reserve component crew members that have to maintain the exact same Vol 1 currencies and requirements as their active duty counterparts get paid the SAME AMOUNT of flight pay per month?

 Now that's crazy talk right there mister.

 

Edited August 27, 2017 by Scooter14
Not just pilots...

[JBueno]

5 hours ago, dream big said:

Some of the solutions and answers are complicated but some are easy fixes: separate promotion boards for rated, homesteading instead of PCSing every 3 years, pure flying track/eliminating up or out, get rid of 99% of the CBTs.

Let's talk about a pure flying track. What's it look like?

If a pure flying track was capped at O-3, would guys go for it? For 20 years?