1,000 Retired Pilots Can Be Recalled to Active Duty

[VMFA187]

2 hours ago, gearpig said:

The chances are good. MPA days for all my friends! I think we'll see this program greatly expanded. There's probably a greater number of part-timers willing to go full time on USERRA Leave from the airlines than there are retirees willing to come back.

Yesterday:

Active-duty positions added for Guard, Reserve pilots increasing pilot retention, production and absorption into the force.

Are AGR positions entitled to the bonus? If my family didn't have to move every three years, I could fly as much as some squadrons in the Guard/Reserves do (which is a lot compared to the USMC), not be deployed/TAD on a one-to-one ratio, and I could accept a $48k/year bonus, that would probably keep me from putting in my apps.

Edited October 26, 2017 by VMFA187

[Guardian]

We have agr and tech spots open with no one to fill.

[MDDieselPilot]

2 hours ago, SocialD said:

Im not sure about others, but my squadron can't even keep our full time spots filled.  No shortage of guys trying to show up off AD, just shortage of part timers willing to take AGR/Technician jobs.   I can't imagine this will help much.   

 

45 minutes ago, Guardian said:

We have agr and tech spots open with no one to fill.

 

As an AD guy who has reached out to similar units looking for any position (AGR would be preferable) and been turned away.. what's the reasoning behind this?  Are your Sq's willing to go short-handed a while to keep the AGR/tech spots open for the traditional guys when, one day, they may want or need the full time job?  I understand looking out for your own, but it's a bit confusing to me as to why a unit won't give a slot to someone willing to fill it when their own people are busy doing their own thing. 

[Duck]

 
As an AD guy who has reached out to similar units looking for any position (AGR would be preferable) and been turned away.. what's the reasoning behind this?  Are your Sq's willing to go short-handed a while to keep the AGR/tech spots open for the traditional guys when, one day, they may want or need the full time job?  I understand looking out for your own, but it's a bit confusing to me as to why a unit won't give a slot to someone willing to fill it when their own people are busy doing their own thing. 

I talked to my hiring guy at my ANG unit about open slots. They are right now 60% manned and as a result have had to force crews into longer deployments (used to split them). He said he would rather the unit be undermanned for the next couple years than hire the wrong guys who would change the culture and be a douche for the next 10 years.

Unfortunately, joining a Guard unit is like joining a frat. They want to see who you really are before offering you the job. I have been working to get one of my buddies hired at the unit by bringing him by and meeting the guys. He is scheduled to go to a Spring drill and I know he will be offered a job at that time. It took him 3 Trips to the unit and me sponsoring him to make headway. At the last meeting with the hiring guy, he told my buddy, “TR, ART, AGR, Long term alert, whatever you want we can get it for you.”

So don’t give up and keep making contacts with people.

[extender10]

My dad (ret'd AF pilot) heard some things from buddies on his last airline trip about the Air Force putting a chunk of these recalled pilots into IP positions at UPT bases. 3 years, no deployment, yada yada yada.  Some would be AF reserve IPs and they could keep their seniority number at the airlines while they get a SWEET onbase crib at Laughlin, Vance, Columbus.  Rumors I don't know much about but thought I"d share.

[SocialD]

10 hours ago, MDDieselPilot said:

As an AD guy who has reached out to similar units looking for any position (AGR would be preferable) and been turned away.. what's the reasoning behind this?  Are your Sq's willing to go short-handed a while to keep the AGR/tech spots open for the traditional guys when, one day, they may want or need the full time job?  I understand looking out for your own, but it's a bit confusing to me as to why a unit won't give a slot to someone willing to fill it when their own people are busy doing their own thing. 

We're only authorized so many pilots, and we're actually pretty full on pilots right now.  It's just that now have a disproportionate amount of pilots on the part-timer side of the house...most of them now want to stay part time.  We're also in a weird phase where we have zero dudes, who have their 20 (aside from leadership and prior-Es), that are still hanging on.  For now, we're not going to force out a bro that is short of his 20, just to hire another guy to fill a full-time spot.  I look to see people to start exiting right at 20, counting their enlisted time, whereas before most guys would stay until 20 years as an officer.  

If the AF/ARC were truly serious about fixing some of the issues, they would have already solved the problem.  But they're not serious, so we'll continue to flounder, scrape by and drive more guys out/part time...    Example, I was asked what would make me consider sitting alert again...I say bring back 3 for 1s.   They say, not happening...ok, then I'm not sitting alert.  If they were serious, they would bring back 3 for 1s.  However, our alert sites dutifully report on status every day, so there must not be a problem...right?  

 

[brabus]

Are AGR positions entitled to the bonus?

Yes, but it can be unit dependent on whether you get that bonus.

[hindsight2020]

12 hours ago, MDDieselPilot said:

 

 

As an AD guy who has reached out to similar units looking for any position (AGR would be preferable) and been turned away.. what's the reasoning behind this?  Are your Sq's willing to go short-handed a while to keep the AGR/tech spots open for the traditional guys when, one day, they may want or need the full time job?  I understand looking out for your own, but it's a bit confusing to me as to why a unit won't give a slot to someone willing to fill it when their own people are busy doing their own thing. 

 

It's not that simple. First of all, many units are running overages on the part-time side, precisely because they know there will be attrition as people chase airlines and finalize domiciles long term. The second-tier immediate effect that has is that a full-timer who curtails (AGR) or quits his part-A (ART) might not have a musical chair to go to on the part-time side of the UMD. That's just not gonna fly when many of these full-time people are going to be future leadership, as invested staples of the unit as full timers tend to historically be. In reality, the "overage" game is played every day and we rarely if ever kick people out over it, but it is a threat to those who transition between status if the hiring on the part-time side gets mismanaged. 

Secondly, and this certainly may chap outsider applicants, but it used to be you couldn't get a direct-hire full time position. Certainly the case during the Lost Decade. Part of the reason is obvious logistics of supply and demand at that time of no a-word hiring, but the part that you won't be privy to as an applicant is precisely what @Duck already hinted at. Certain full-time applicants, especially those seeking full time work directly, can be the goobers/rotten apples with preceding AD reputation that nobody wants to hire, and/or who aren't willing to be part-time for very telling reasons (to the unit and their peers). They can also be the chasing-AD retirement types who feel regAF owes them and they're on a mission, and their naked ambition comes at the expense of the TRs they're supposed to be serving. or they could be a location-anchor (ART) townie that would be toxic additions to the unit ( again, me-centric full-timers are the kiss of death to a unit imo). Just because you're willing to take a job doesn't mean you're the right candidate, and these seemingly "soft" distinctions actually matter a ton. Few have the level of introspection to be able to look in the mirror and admit they fall in the aforementioned categories.

Now all that said, your observation is correct. Certain units (pointy end in particular) can be insufferably "ethno-centric" when it comes to the occupational backgrounds of their desired applicants, even in times of buyer's market hiring environment such as today. I do believe some of that old Guard sophomoric bias will become self-correcting as a matter of necessity, and God willing. Hang in there, the weather changes every 6 months in this rickety organization called the USAF. 

[Bergman]

1 hour ago, SocialD said:

 It's just that now have a disproportionate amount of pilots on the part-timer side of the house...most of them now want to stay part time.  We're also in a weird phase where we have zero dudes, who have their 20 (aside from leadership and prior-Es), that are still hanging on.  For now, we're not going to force out a bro that is short of his 20, just to hire another guy to fill a full-time spot.  I look to see people to start exiting right at 20, counting their enlisted time, whereas before most guys would stay until 20 years as an officer.  

We are seeing the same thing as well.  Many of our part-timers were really guard bums, averaging 20+ days a month at the base in some fashion (Drill, FTP, alert, SOF, office days, whatever) but now our part timers are TRUE part timers...drill weekend and then maybe 2-3 additional days a month.  With 6-9 formerly productive guard bums getting hired, that's  a swing of 120-180 days of effort per month that isn't being covered by other people.

We've had 20% of our squadron retire at 20+1 day in the last 6 months.  Several guys are just not taking checkrides and/or otherwise maintaining MR status for their last 6 months.  Stickin' it to "leadership" one last time. hehe

[FourFans]

2 hours ago, hindsight2020 said:

...the weather changes every 6 months in this rickety organization called the USAF. 

Truer words were never spoken.

[herkbum]

13 hours ago, hindsight2020 said:

 

Secondly, and this certainly may chap outsider applicants, but it used to be you couldn't get a direct-hire full time position. Certainly the case during the Lost Decade. Part of the reason is obvious logistics of supply and demand at that time of no a-word hiring, but the part that you won't be privy to as an applicant is precisely what @Duck already hinted at. Certain full-time applicants, especially those seeking full time work directly, can be the goobers/rotten apples with preceding AD reputation that nobody wants to hire, and/or who aren't willing to be part-time for very telling reasons (to the unit and their peers). They can also be the chasing-AD retirement types who feel regAF owes them and they're on a mission, and their naked ambition comes at the expense of the TRs they're supposed to be serving. or they could be a location-anchor (ART) townie that would be toxic additions to the unit ( again, me-centric full-timers are the kiss of death to a unit imo). Just because you're willing to take a job doesn't mean you're the right candidate, and these seemingly "soft" distinctions actually matter a ton. Few have the level of introspection to be able to look in the mirror and admit they fall in the aforementioned categories.

Now all that said, your observation is correct. Certain units (pointy end in particular) can be insufferably "ethno-centric" when it comes to the occupational backgrounds of their desired applicants, even in times of buyer's market hiring environment such as today. I do believe some of that old Guard sophomoric bias will become self-correcting as a matter of necessity, and God willing. Hang in there, the weather changes every 6 months in this rickety organization called the USAF. 

Shack

Edited October 27, 2017 by herkbum

[Crosswind]

There's some good chatter here on how ANG/Reserves manning works. I'll add a few points I think some AD guys fail to consider.

An AD guy, with 12-13 years in the bank, isn't that much of a deal for the Guard. In fact they may be equal parts liability, even if they arrive as a "full-up current IP.".

He/She is probably within 2 years of a Lt Col pin on date that our manning document can't support, or if it does, it may delay a Guard baby's (who did 6-9 years alert, 4 deployments with the unit, is about to finally start the IPUG, there's a list here) chance to pin on 1-3 years later. A 7 year buyback on a guy who won't have much Guard time before he's ready for a command level billet (with little understanding of the overall guard process i.e. DSG, MEST, Alert) is a non-ideal situation on the verge of turning sour. 

The situation was very different when the UPT commitment was 8 years. 

The letter of X's can only get so full. 35 flyers, each needing 6-9 sorties a month, doesn't make room for 5 active duty guys in 3 years, especially when 6 guys are inbound from the B-course during that same period, and only 2-3 retirements.  Adding mass doesn't solve all the problems.  

One way our unit chose to solve it was turn out more ADOS days (like a short term AGR). A lot of part timers work 2-3 months "full time" off of these. We've done it with alert as well. It helps, although its not a perfect solution.

That being said. As a former AD guy, and now Guard, It's ing great. Do it if you can.

No I will not take an ANG - AD "opportunity". I am not going back to prison!!! (he said satirically)

[brabus]

To lessen the impact described by crosswind, get out ASAP from AD. That means do not accept another assignment past your UPT ADSC, no matter how awesome it is. Your time to jump is ~11 years, do one more assignment and have 13 years in, you are far less marketable for reasons stated above (not unhirable by any means, just lowe chances/will have a tougher search). And whatever carrot AD waives to get you to do one more assignment is not worth missing out on the guard job you know you want IMO.

Edited November 2, 2017 by brabus

[VMFA187]

On 10/26/2017 at 5:50 AM, Guardian said:

We have agr and tech spots open with no one to fill.

What airframe?

 

[HeyWatchThis]

On 10/26/2017 at 6:42 AM, SocialD said:

Im not sure about others, but my squadron can't even keep our full time spots filled.  No shortage of guys trying to show up off AD, just shortage of part timers willing to take AGR/Technician jobs.   I can't imagine this will help much.   

Same with ours so AFRC's brilliant solution was to cut all the open slots and voila! we no longer have any shortages (I wish I was kidding)......

That has now left us wondering if the 1 year 25% bonus they gave ARTs as a "stop gap" while they attempted to fix some of the pay discrepancies is going to disappear as well since you know, we don't have a "shortage" anymore....

Edited November 3, 2017 by HeyWatchThis

[LookieRookie]

20 minutes ago, HeyWatchThis said:

Same with ours so AFRC's brilliant solution was to cut all the open slots and voila! we no longer have any shortages (I wish I was kidding)......

That has now left us wondering if the 1 year 25% bonus they gave ARTs as a "stop gap" while they attempted to fix some of the pay discrepancies is going to disappear as well since you know, we don't have a "shortage" anymore....

Why did they only do 1 year? Bomber guys do 4 years.

[HeyWatchThis]

Just now, LookieRookie said:

Why did they only do 1 year? Bomber guys do 4 years.

No clue.....I didn't know that was an option....this particular bonus is a retention bonus on the civilian side, not military if that makes a difference.... SUPPOSEDLY they are/were going to update our pay tables with OPM but it has been radio silence on that front for a year now...most have simply lost faith and the few of us that were holding out hoping someone would pull their head out of their ass and actually do SOMETHING decent have started researching airline options since Big Blue even on the AFRC side seems unable and/or refuses to genuinely attempt to close the pay gap... 

To further stoke the fire I have heard both personnel and wing leadership mutter why we even have the bonus since nobody is staying anyway....to me that means you haven't offered ENOUGH, not go the opposite direction and think we should just cut the bonus out.....but sadly that mindset doesn't surprise me from a Big Blue perspective...

[ClearedHot]

Stop loss Cometh...

[SocialD]

1 hour ago, HeyWatchThis said:

Same with ours so AFRC's brilliant solution was to cut all the open slots and voila! we no longer have any shortages (I wish I was kidding)......

Lol, just because they cut the "slots," doesn't mean they're not short on manning.  Now if they cut the aircraft/crew ratio, which I think the heavies did a few years back, then it make sense (kinda)...

36 minutes ago, HeyWatchThis said:

No clue.....I didn't know that was an option....this particular bonus is a retention bonus on the civilian side, not military if that makes a difference.... SUPPOSEDLY they are/were going to update our pay tables with OPM but it has been radio silence on that front for a year now...most have simply lost faith and the few of us that were holding out hoping someone would pull their head out of their ass and actually do SOMETHING decent have started researching airline options since Big Blue even on the AFRC side seems unable and/or refuses to genuinely attempt to close the pay gap... 

To further stoke the fire I have heard both personnel and wing leadership mutter why we even have the bonus since nobody is staying anyway....to me that means you haven't offered ENOUGH, not go the opposite direction and think we should just cut the bonus out.....but sadly that mindset doesn't surprise me from a Big Blue perspective...

They've been stringing people along since I can remember.  Many took the bait, but it was easy to see through their bullshit.  To their credit things have improved dramatically since 2011-2012ish.  Back then they wanted me to go from a 10+ year Captain on ADOS orders to a GS-12 step 1 (take it or leave it)...for those that haven't look at the number, that's a pretty decent pay cut.  Now they're bringing guys right off seasoning days (non-IP) into GS-13s spots.    

Then they offered a tech bonus for all my friends...no wait, what we meant to say was, it's for IPs near 1500 hours.  LOL!

I've also been hearing about a part timer bonus for a 3ish years now.  But in all honesty, a 5k/yr bonus isn't going to do much to keep me around after 20, so it probably would be a waste of tax payer dollars.  I can make more than that by picking up a single 3 day trip, in a year.  I'll also lose more than that, per month that I'm on orders, to deploy yet again...to do nothing...  

    

[HeyWatchThis]

46 minutes ago, SocialD said:

Lol, just because they cut the "slots," doesn't mean they're not short on manning.  Now if they cut the aircraft/crew ratio, which I think the heavies did a few years back, then it make sense (kinda)...

They've been stringing people along since I can remember.  Many took the bait, but it was easy to see through their bullshit.  To their credit things have improved dramatically since 2011-2012ish.  Back then they wanted me to go from a 10+ year Captain on ADOS orders to a GS-12 step 1 (take it or leave it)...for those that haven't look at the number, that's a pretty decent pay cut.  Now they're bringing guys right off seasoning days (non-IP) into GS-13s spots.    

Then they offered a tech bonus for all my friends...no wait, what we meant to say was, it's for IPs near 1500 hours.  LOL!

I've also been hearing about a part timer bonus for a 3ish years now.  But in all honesty, a 5k/yr bonus isn't going to do much to keep me around after 20, so it probably would be a waste of tax payer dollars.  I can make more than that by picking up a single 3 day trip, in a year.  I'll also lose more than that, per month that I'm on orders, to deploy yet again...to do nothing...  

 

 That must be guard because AFRC is still GS-12 or lower unless you are an IP

Edited November 3, 2017 by HeyWatchThis

[Guardian]

ART bonus? Surely you jest. We receive no such thing.

 

[matmacwc]

3 minutes ago, Guardian said:

ARat bonus? Surely you jest. We receive no such thing.

All you have to do is apply, we tested the waters when it was a rumor and apparently it worked.

[SocialD]

59 minutes ago, HeyWatchThis said:

 That must be guard because AFRC is still GS-12 or lower unless you are an IP

Yes it's Guard.  GS-12 step 1 is the min you'll see in my squadron, however for now, GS-13 is the min.    I have heard of AFRC giving out GS-9s?  What a fucking joke.  We already have Captains going to the regionals over GS-13 jobs, I can't imagine what it would look like with anything less than GS-12.

Edited November 3, 2017 by SocialD

[Guardian]

Is it your state that you apply though? What does the bonus look like? Where do you sign up?

[Guardian]

Can you get put on orders and still get the tech bonus? Like 3 years of orders?