T-38 Down @ DLF

[LiquidSky]

[black hills tj]

[Bucket]

Safety Report is out. Ask your local FSO to pull up the brief from AFSAS. 

Him Him 

[hindsight2020]

AIB is out.

 

Cliffnotes for the AIB challenged. Nothing new learned for those of us close to the vest on this one, but the gallery might be interested. 

Edited August 24, 2018 by hindsight2020

[ClearedHot]

That was tough to read...

[Day Man]

2

 

[hindsight2020]

1 hour ago, ClearedHot said:

That was tough to read...

Especially tougher to read when you're asked to keep doing it like everything's been fixed......

[ClearedHot]

When I flew 38's I think our toughest EP was a Right Gen No Cross in crappy Weather.  I vaguely recall hearing about dual hydraulic failure and a dude who recovered the jet to one of the dry lakebeds...but that is a very old memory. 

Obviously some serious maintenance issues which has been a recurring trend through the years at UPT bases and civilian maintenance.  I don't even know what to say about arming your ejection seat.

[Hacker]

2 hours ago, hindsight2020 said:

Especially tougher to read when you're asked to keep doing it like everything's been fixed......

To be fair, this was the case with the aileron bellcrank failure, too.

Leadership said, "this is a fly-to-fail item that does not get inspected as part of any of our normal maintenance.  We have one-time inspected the fleet and they are all currently good to go.  Do your pre-flight flight control checks and knock on the bottom of the wing during your walk-around.  Now get back out there and fly."

So, all still par for the course.

Edited August 24, 2018 by Hacker

[viper154]

1 hour ago, ClearedHot said:

 I don't even know what to say about arming your ejection seat.

For those of us who don’t fly with rockets under the seat, is this referring to pulling the seat pin or is there another “arming” function? All I remember from my T-6 days are the ISS and the pins. 

[Hacker]

47 minutes ago, viper154 said:

For those of us who don’t fly with rockets under the seat, is this referring to pulling the seat pin or is there another “arming” function? All I remember from my T-6 days are the ISS and the pins. 

Pin removal, just like in the T-6.

[SurelySerious]

52 minutes ago, viper154 said:

For those of us who don’t fly with rockets under the seat, is this referring to pulling the seat pin or is there another “arming” function? All I remember from my T-6 days are the ISS and the pins. 

There is also that Safe/Arm lever in the 38 you can see in Hacker’s picture. If you haven’t had the safety office pull the report up, it’s worth reading. 

[Homestar]

The AIB posted above also has some pictures of the safe lever.  One of the levers is pretty well hidden by the leg (I forget which).

[TreeA10]

I flew the T-38 years ago before the mod and ACES II so I'm not familiar. Did they add a SEAT NOT ARMED warming light or did the pilot just have the arming lever?

[IDALPHA]

33 minutes ago, TreeA10 said:

I flew the T-38 years ago before the mod and ACES II so I'm not familiar. Did they add a SEAT NOT ARMED warming light or did the pilot just have the arming lever?

Just a lever. 

[Sneedro]

That was a tough read...I solo'd him out in T-6s.  Talk about a great dude with an even better attitude.  I felt nauseous reading that.  

[FishBowl]

Really humble dude. He would study with us in the flight room after he got back from his deployment while we were still fairly new in 38s. I had a really good one-on-one convo with him during our naming ceremony that still sticks with me today. I saw him the day before at his spot in fam camp. Tough read I was putting off. To stuck 🍺

[MooseAg03]

I'm not clear as to why there is a separate arming lever.  The T-6 is the only ejection seat aircraft I've ever flown, and all we had was the pin in the handle and the ISS selector which I only used a few times being in the back seat for instrument rides.  I thought the new Martin Baker system in the T-38 was similar to the T-6.  

[FishBowl]

6 minutes ago, MooseAg03 said:

I'm not clear as to why there is a separate arming lever.  The T-6 is the only ejection seat aircraft I've ever flown, and all we had was the pin in the handle and the ISS selector which I only used a few times being in the back seat for instrument rides.  I thought the new Martin Baker system in the T-38 was similar to the T-6.  

Fairly similar with the addition of upper leg straps and the arming lever. I’m not sure what the purpose of the lever is since the pins should be sufficient.

[JimNtexas]

That report was a heart breaker.

[Right Seat Driver]

Damn, that was probably the toughest read since Shell 77.

[Motofalcon]

2 hours ago, FishBowl said:

Fairly similar with the addition of upper leg straps and the arming lever. I’m not sure what the purpose of the lever is since the pins should be sufficient.

Counterpoint - I don't know what the purpose of the pin is since the lever should be sufficient (and easier to use and no "dropped pin/FOD" hazard). To be fair, the ACES II in the viper/eagle/hog has both an arming lever and a pin, except the pin is in the lever (not at the base of the ejection handle) and only prevents the arming lever from accidentally getting knocked down into the "armed" position (the pin in the new MB -38 seats prevents the lever from being armed AND prevents the handle from being pulled a la T-6, should the lever mechanism fail). Also, removing the pin in the big boy jets is a maintenance function (it is pulled and stowed before the pilot gets to the jet). 

When I was at RND I forgot to put the pin back in the -38 seat (arming lever was in "safe") and maintenance made me go back out to the jet to put the seat pin back in - they said they would not touch the pin (even though the seat was safed) and either the pilot or someone from egress had to put the pin back in. No idea why, just a stupid empire rule that didn't seem worth fighting. 

Its too bad that they harp on the pin so much, because a) it's unnecessary, and b) without it that lever can be quickly slapped down to arm the seat and then handle pulled. Not sure if it would have helped here, but maybe. 

[MooseAg03]

I know it’s tragic, but it should be emphasized that these guys delayed ejection specifically to protect those innocents on the ground from having a flaming ball of wreckage dropped on their houses. Heroic. Just wish they both could have made it out...


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[pawnman]

10 hours ago, MooseAg03 said:

I'm not clear as to why there is a separate arming lever.  The T-6 is the only ejection seat aircraft I've ever flown, and all we had was the pin in the handle and the ISS selector which I only used a few times being in the back seat for instrument rides.  I thought the new Martin Baker system in the T-38 was similar to the T-6.  

The B-1 has an arming lever, but it's pretty visible.  When safe, it rests against the left ejection handle on the outside of the seat, near your knee.

[HossHarris]

1 hour ago, MooseAg03 said:

I know it’s tragic, but it should be emphasized that these guys delayed ejection specifically to protect those innocents on the ground from having a flaming ball of wreckage dropped on their houses. Heroic. Just wish they both could have made it out...


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Unfortunately, with zero hydraulics a T38 is gonna go where it’s gonna go ....