T-6s Grounded; More OBOGS Issues

[LookieRookie]

17 minutes ago, zachbar said:

Got briefed on this today. I'm airspeed and altitude zero in the T-6 still, but from a pilot's perspective this seems insane. I appreciate the fact that the T-6 is the Air Force's only primary trainer, but when there are already outstanding TCTOs for EFIS displays catching on fire and faulty ISS, and now OBOGS issues as severe as the most recent one we were briefed on, is the Air Force leaning too far forward? I never imagined I would be expected to fly an airplane with this many outstanding safety of flight issues, and I came from the C-5. I don't know if the most recent event is under an active safety investigation and therefore don't want to get too far into it, but suffice to say that if the affected pilot had been solo, he would be dead. Every time a base stands down, it tells me that they felt they crossed some sort of line, and when AETC releases a new FCIF or terribly written boldface, all they are doing is redrawing the line a little bit further. I honestly feel that with the FCIF allowing flight with dropped masks in light if the most recent event, you can't move that line much farther. It upsets me because it tells me that now the line is death. The Air Force won't call knock it off unless one of us gets killed.

Am I crazy? Is there anyone else with the same sort of ideas running around their head? Also, any Navy guys here have experience with the T-45? How did the Navy handle its OBOGS issues?

UPDATE: https://www.aetc.af.mil/News/Article/1429270/19th-air-fo/

Maj Gen Doherty orders an ops pause.

We had fuel nozzles fracturing a few years ago which would melt the reduction gearbox and make the prop unable to feather and we still flew with studs. We just had to look at fuel flow on takeoff. 

 

This is also when it was discovered that the head unit for the Martin Baker's were supposed to be replaced and the SPO just said, "we tested one so they can all be waived for 13 more months."

 

[YoungnDumb]

All hail the timeline.

[Sneedro]

2 hours ago, zachbar said:

Every time a base stands down, it tells me that they felt they crossed some sort of line, and when AETC releases a new FCIF or terribly written boldface, all they are doing is redrawing the line a little bit further. I honestly feel that with the FCIF allowing flight with dropped masks in light if the most recent event, you can't move that line much farther. It upsets me because it tells me that now the line is death. The Air Force won't call knock it off unless one of us gets killed.

I was a safety guy during part of my time at Vance as a T-6 IP.  I saw first hand what the CFS does to masks, flight suits, and skin after it is fired (inadvertently...oops) in flight.  I would fly with it down for awhile especially in the summer when it was hot, but not after seeing the results of a blown CFS.  NFW I would step foot in that jet if the answer was, "Just fly with your mask down." 

Edited February 1, 2018 by Sneedro

[Sprkt69]

3 hours ago, zachbar said:

Got briefed on this today. I'm airspeed and altitude zero in the T-6 still, but from a pilot's perspective this seems insane. I appreciate the fact that the T-6 is the Air Force's only primary trainer, but when there are already outstanding TCTOs for EFIS displays catching on fire and faulty ISS, and now OBOGS issues as severe as the most recent one we were briefed on, is the Air Force leaning too far forward? I never imagined I would be expected to fly an airplane with this many outstanding safety of flight issues, and I came from the C-5. I don't know if the most recent event is under an active safety investigation and therefore don't want to get too far into it, but suffice to say that if the affected pilot had been solo, he would be dead. Every time a base stands down, it tells me that they felt they crossed some sort of line, and when AETC releases a new FCIF or terribly written boldface, all they are doing is redrawing the line a little bit further. I honestly feel that with the FCIF allowing flight with dropped masks in light if the most recent event, you can't move that line much farther. It upsets me because it tells me that now the line is death. The Air Force won't call knock it off unless one of us gets killed.

Am I crazy? Is there anyone else with the same sort of ideas running around their head? Also, any Navy guys here have experience with the T-45? How did the Navy handle its OBOGS issues?

UPDATE: https://www.aetc.af.mil/News/Article/1429270/19th-air-fo/

Maj Gen Doherty orders an ops pause.

Didn’t you hear, “any risk is acceptable cause the CSAF said so,” according to the Aircrew Crisis Task Force.

[Bode]

I was a safety guy during part of my time at Vance as a T-6 IP.  I saw first hand what the CFS does to masks, flight suits, and skin after it is fired (inadvertently...oops) in flight.  I would fly with it down for awhile especially in the summer when it was hot, but not after seeing the results of a blown CFS.  NFW I would step foot in that jet if the answer was, "Just fly with your mask down." 

Yes but now we leave the CFS pins in so that doesn’t occur.

[MooseAg03]

Karma really doesn’t want the Air Force to be able to produce its way out of this retention crisis.

Geez, maybe instead of the T-X, we should be looking for a JPATS replacement. Everyone flying them now, stay as safe as you can.

[Runr6730]

Bring back the Tweets

[FUSEPLUG]

1 hour ago, Runr6730 said:

Bring back the Tweets

I bet 90% of those parked in the desert would start right back up. You’d just need to have someone there to bounce on the wing a couple of times during engine start. 

[Sneedro]

5 hours ago, Bode said:

 

Yes but now we leave the CFS pins in so that doesn’t occur.

 

Haha awesome...even better.  Regardless, I stand by my statement that I am not flying if the expectation is I have to fly with my mask down for OBOGS reasons.  I am not so concerned about the CFS if it is pinned but the low altitude issue causing an immediate ejection is.  I am far since removed from flying the T-6 and being in AETC, so maybe my thinking is more conservative these days since life is different, but seems like a lot of speeding just asking for something bad to happen...

[Duck]

Haha awesome...even better.  Regardless, I stand by my statement that I am not flying if the expectation is I have to fly with my mask down for OBOGS reasons.  I am not so concerned about the CFS if it is pinned but the low altitude issue causing an immediate ejection is.  I am far since removed from flying the T-6 and being in AETC, so maybe my thinking is more conservative these days since life is different, but seems like a lot of speeding just asking for something bad to happen...

I’ve seen a dude who punched from the 6 with his sleeves rolled up. Ouch.

[YoungnDumb]

Any reports of the Navy having any issues in their T-6's?

[nunya]

Yes.  Whiting had OBOGS issues years ago.  Guys were getting white solid flakes (yuck it up fuckers) in their masks.  Gave guys a nasty smoker's lung cough.  I left before it got to the "new boldface" level, so I don't know how the story ends.

[AZwildcat]

That damn zeolite dust...it'll getcha

[nunya]

5 minutes ago, AZwildcat said:

That damn zeolite dust...it'll getcha

Yeah, that was it. Been awhile.

Edited February 2, 2018 by nunya

[DEVIL]

11 minutes ago, AZwildcat said:

That damn zeolite dust...it'll getcha

NERRDDDDDDD

[ARAMP1]

15 hours ago, YoungnDumb said:

Any reports of the Navy having any issues in their T-6's?

The navy hasn't had any problems in the last couple years with their T-6s.  It's all been with the T-45s as of late.  However, the navy T-6s are much newer, so we'll see how they'll do once they become a decade old.  

[LookieRookie]

https://www.airforcetimes.com/news/your-air-force/2018/02/06/lawmaker-blasts-air-force-general-over-unsolved-hypoxia-problem/

 

HAF/A3 receiving a tongue lashing from Congress.

[uhhello]

Save some of that tongue lashing for self reflection.  Pass a fucking budget.

[Duck]

Glad to see Gen Doherty is suggesting flying at 6-7k feet with no masks. Sounds like he is still the same winner he was when he was at Sheppard.

[Sneedro]

Ahhh Gen Nowland...couldn't have happened to a "nicer" guy.  Feel bad for those below him, he has a tendency to take stuff out on his subordinates in my experience.

[BashiChuni]

Just knew him as the Vance wing king 

[Sneedro]

18 hours ago, BashiChuni said:

Just knew him as the Vance wing king 

Sadly that's how I know him...

[Champ Kind]

Any updates? Is the AF T-6 fleet still grounded?

[flammable]

3 hours ago, Champ Kind said:

Any updates? Is the AF T-6 fleet still grounded?

https://www.airforcemag.com/DRArchive/Pages/2018/February 2018/February 15 2018/USAF-Losing-700-T-6-Flights-Per-Day-While-Fleet-is-Grounded-Growing-Out-of-the-Pilot-Crisis-Making-Space-a-Priority.aspx

 

 

[Hermey]

Jeeze what’s everyone doing with their 3 weeks off? I assume you can only get studs so far ahead on Sims and ground academics before they must have actual flights. Are all the IPs getting leave to prep for the weekend flying ops that are surely to come if they fix this obogs issue? Seems like a great time to knock out some airline apps / prep courses.