T-6s Grounded; More OBOGS Issues

[pawnman]

17 hours ago, Homestar said:

Not just VR but wings are looking to buy some really expensive stuff. Unproven stuff that they don’t need. 

I think you'll find that 1. the stuff is being proven in the civilian world and 2. it's way cheaper than the flight time in a T-6 or T-38, especially in the long-run.

[hindsight2020]

maybe if our defense budget priorities were not lined with so much defense contract graft, perhaps giving our pilots hella more seat time wouldn't be such blasphemy. We create most of the problems we're accosted about solving....

 

[Standby]

1 hour ago, hindsight2020 said:

maybe if our defense budget priorities were not lined with so much defense contract graft, perhaps giving our pilots hella more seat time wouldn't be such blasphemy. We create most of the problems we're accosted about solving....

 

No, it’s about leveraging tech to train smarter in a digital world. Why would I chairfly in front of a cockpit poster when I could interact with something virtual that provides enhanced learning? You can’t have unlimited flight training available, just not possible...so why not capitalize on better, cheaper alternatives?

[LookieRookie]

I would also like to point out that reps in a VR sim are not going to be as taxing on your body as a triple turn in the DLF heat. (Granted I've only been there once)

[hindsight2020]

11 minutes ago, Standby said:

No, it’s about leveraging tech to train smarter in a digital world. Why would I chairfly in front of a cockpit poster when I could interact with something virtual that provides enhanced learning? You can’t have unlimited flight training available, just not possible...so why not capitalize on better, cheaper alternatives?

Except I didn't make the argument for unlimited training, that's a straw man you made (logical fallacy #1). Also, you're advocating under a false dichotomy (logical fallacy #2). Fielding VR potato and increasing hours is not mutually exclusive , especially under my argument that the reason we're faced with jousting for monetary position in the first place is the gargantuan contractor graft that has ballooned our defense budget to morally abhorrent levels.

Have you instructed under the current VR products/paradigm? I have. This is work that belongs in an actual test squadron. This has zero place in operational training squadrons. We're about to surge in the next month in order to fix the timeline blunder created out of what was an amateur and hasty implementation of immature tech/process for the sake of appeasing a couple generals. BOHICA October. Here comes a hell of a lot of flying time and legacy syllabus to fix the VR blunder. The irony. Again, I'm not making a Luddite argument, just refuting the claim less seat time is a sunk cost in this discussion. It is not.

[LookieRookie]

54 minutes ago, hindsight2020 said:

Except I didn't make the argument for unlimited training, that's a straw man you made (logical fallacy #1). Also, you're advocating under a false dichotomy (logical fallacy #2). Fielding VR potato and increasing hours is not mutually exclusive , especially under my argument that the reason we're faced with jousting for monetary position in the first place is the gargantuan contractor graft that has ballooned our defense budget to morally abhorrent levels.

Have you instructed under the current VR products/paradigm? I have. This is work that belongs in an actual test squadron. This has zero place in operational training squadrons. We're about to surge in the next month in order to fix the timeline blunder created out of what was an amateur and hasty implementation of immature tech/process for the sake of appeasing a couple generals. BOHICA October. Here comes a hell of a lot of flying time and legacy syllabus to fix the VR blunder. The irony. Again, I'm not making a Luddite argument, just refuting the claim less seat time is a sunk cost in this discussion. It is not.

The RCP SGTO is ending?

[Standby]

54 minutes ago, hindsight2020 said:

Except I didn't make the argument for unlimited training, that's a straw man you made (logical fallacy #1). Also, you're advocating under a false dichotomy (logical fallacy #2).

Lots of words to say you are resistant to change. What the fock is an “operational training” squadron by the way?

Telling people to put on a VR headset and watch maneuvers/patterns isn’t rocket science...no need to be dramatic. 

[BashiChuni]

1 hour ago, hindsight2020 said:

 

Have you instructed under the current VR products/paradigm? I have.

Respect bro. MAD respect. Damn you’re so brave. 

[AZwildcat]

I think it's total bullshit that all this has been dumped in the lap of squadrons to do "self help" build-a-sim projects...however, I believe the concept of low cost accessible sims with VR/AR for visuals is great.

[SurelySerious]

4 hours ago, AZwildcat said:

I think it's total bullshit that all this has been dumped in the lap of squadrons to do "self help" build-a-sim projects...

2

[Standby]

It hasn’t been dumped into squadrons hands. AETC has allocated funds for technological innovation and senior captains with innovative ideas have taken the reigns and started sprinting. Old hats with a chip on their shoulder regarding the current state of pilot training are shit-talking because it doesn’t smell like the UPT of the early 90s.

I honestly don’t get this forum anymore. People frequently talk about not having the clout to change shit until it’s too late and praise former AF rebels yet publicly continue to suck on the moms teet. Don’t take things so literally. If a MAJCOM is willing to carte blanche allocate funds for “innovative” ideas, how can you possibly construe that negatively?

Big Wig Boss: “Here is a metric shit ton of money...make things better.”

Officer with decent idea: “Thanks sir!”

Everybody else: “Millenial SNAPs are fvcking horrible. The Air Force is reluctant to change. VR is hoakey bullshit...you’re not a real pilot unless you flew ELPs. Who cares that the senior captains and mid majors have more operational experience than any other recent batch of aviators — their opinions are worth less than dogshit. When will the AF ever listen to the actual mission hackers AKA the dudes who don’t give two hoots about anything other than airline apps?”

[SurelySerious]

1 hour ago, Standby said:

It hasn’t been dumped into squadrons hands. AETC has allocated funds for technological innovation and senior captains with innovative ideas have taken the reigns and started sprinting. Old hats with a chip on their shoulder regarding the current state of pilot training are shit-talking because it doesn’t smell like the UPT of the early 90s.

I honestly don’t get this forum anymore. People frequently talk about not having the clout to change shit until it’s too late and praise former AF rebels yet publicly continue to suck on the moms teet. Don’t take things so literally. If a MAJCOM is willing to carte blanche allocate funds for “innovative” ideas, how can you possibly construe that negatively?

Did they increase squadron manning to account for the time that capt smith is having to take to do the additional work?

MAJCOMs ought to drive the innovation by backing up with updated academics, syllabi, admin, etc in addition to not having everyone duplicate the same innovation. That’s called waste  

That’s the fucked up part. Get your head out of your ass about people not wanting things to be better. Just because people don’t agree with you doesn’t mean they’re wrong. 

[jazzdude]

The difference is that pilot production increased something like 30% per class with no additional resources already. Triple turns, flying on the weekend, etc. And now you get a pet project that eats up more time, with people that don't have the tools to make something good.

This is exactly the kind of problem for the staff to solve, and if they can't, well, maybe we should rethink who goes to staff, or man then appropriately.

(Side note, even the reduced T6 syllabus didn't come from staff, it came from a UPT base)

The AF has access to human factors experts, software designers, and the ability to contact out to experts if needed. But no, lets not use those people, we'll just dump it on the line squadrons to figure it out.

Don't get me wrong, I think it's an interesting learning tool. But is it really that much better than Microsoft flight sim or X plane? Or is VR just the new buzzword that everyone wants to jump on board with because it's new?

Sent from my SM-N920V using Tapatalk

[ThreeHoler]

You sound like someone who has never worked on staff. Staffs exist for one thing: red tape.

I don’t know how VR / AR are being applied but I applaud those who are trying to make our process better.


Sent from my iPhone using Baseops Network mobile app

[Homestar]

17 hours ago, BeerMan said:

Why so salty?

Because when they took the fix to fix out they didn’t also reduce the syllabus by 25%. You teach flying by getting in a plane and flying. You teach procedures in a sim. VR is fine. But it won’t replace stick time. 

Edited September 23, 2018 by Homestar

[AZwildcat]

10 hours ago, Standby said:

Big Wig Boss: “Here is a metric shit ton of money...make things better.”

Officer with decent idea: “Thanks sir!”

If that's the experience at your base then great.  I'm all about the squadrons getting the latitude and the funding to explore new ideas.  We're doing that at Beale right now, and yes it takes up my time and energy, but I enjoy doing it and I'm not getting pressured from bosses to make it work with no resources so they can brag about it. 

However,  what I've heard from others in AETC is that it really has become a full time job for some, and another look-at-me dick measuring project for leadership to show the bobs how innovative they are.

Hacker is right we don't want the MAJCOM to provide a end to end solution, it's always a disaster (ref: EFB program).  I've found the most successful technology initiatives happen when the pilot(s) with the good idea get the funding AND the ability to hire specialists to create and sustain it for them.  It's not much different than all the other queepy jobs...who's a better front office admin or scheduler or UDM?  They pilot who's there 40% of the time because they're flying/TDY/deployed or the civilian/contractor who sits there 8 hours a day and has perfect continuity? 

I'm supposed to be first and foremost a leader (or at least that's what the AF told me), so it makes no sense for me to be turning wrenches or screws on DIY projects.  I should be hiring specialists to do that and providing the vision and direction for it.  It's just like in business...Tim Cook isn't spending time running ethernet cables around the building or cutting the grass out front, because his time is worth more than that.

[BashiChuni]

UPT is light years behind the tech curve. 

UPT Next has lit a fire for innovation. 

VR is cheap. Easy to implement. Effective. Why not add that arrow to the quiver?

and no this is not a problem for staff to solve. Staff is useless. 

[icohftb]

VR is great. At least it sounds cool. So contract out a company that has made flight sims to create a custom t6 vr setup and have t6 ips provide feedback.

In our squadron we are still trying to figure out how to place the order through gpc or not. So we are learning contracting. Once we get the equipment someone will have to piece it together and get it running so we get to be comm officers too. Then afterwards maybe we can actually figure out how use the dang thing.

Good thing we all have so much extra time. 

[jrobe]

....sooooo OBOGS....?

[FishBowl]

Should I edit the name of the topic to “VR Stole My Car & Got My Wife Pregnant”?

[DirtyFlightSuit]

It's cool still fly with your mask down, because ejections are sOOOo rare.  Oh wait....  The Air Force found the OBOGS problem and has a solution... just enjoy it in 4 years....  Nothing to see here. 

Off Topic: VR takes about 3-4 hours per 1 min of instructional video.  This work has been dumped on no less than 5 Active Duty members in my squadron alone, the other squadrons are also jumping on the band wagon.   So not only are we innovating like rabbits breed, but we are duplicating effort and shared information is spotty at best.  But that's cool innovate gets you hard. 

 

[icohftb]

9 minutes ago, jrobe said:

....sooooo OBOGS....?

Well VR will incorporate the ROBD trainer to give you the hypoxia experience.

[DirtyFlightSuit]

[YoungnDumb]

2 hours ago, DirtyFlightSuit said:

But that's cool innovate gets you hard. 

 

I hear if you say innovate enough your OPR writes itself and a General gets another star

[17D_guy]

On 9/20/2018 at 10:56 PM, BashiChuni said:

if we worked thru all those questions it'd take damn near 15 years to get anything fielded.

as a comm guy i wouldn't be chunking spears at ops dudes trying to make things happen...there is outside expertise being sought...but it ain't from some base comm sq

by all means feel free to stay in your lane and stfu

edit: why the fck does it have to work with the cyber dudes? i dont think you know what the hell you're talking about.

edit: IF you’re comm. cyber. Finance. Whatever. 

I think VR is going to be fantastic for a lot of training.  It's not going to take 15 years, and not with the fire that Cyber and pilot production has.  We have internal AF developers that can kick down doors and get this shit done.  FFS the last 24 AF/CC was a Viper driver and is now ACC/CV... 

Win10 migrations was having significant changes to the network every week.  They got done because CSAF, AFSPC and 24 AF CC stood behind it.  With SECAF, CSAF, AETC CC (and ACC/CC) behind it this could work the same.

The "no" monkey's are dying out or being killed.  We've still got some POS Col's/Lt Col's, but they're self-identifying and removing themselves for areas of resistance.  The GS/SES's on the other hand...well...look at this OBOGS issue, we're stuck with these old fuckers.  

As a Cyber dude I know all about being behind the tech curve.  I worked for the past 2 years watching AFNET burn down while we shoveled cash to some GO's pet project of cloud email (you're welcome for your 99 GB email, sorry about not being able to login). 

Before that was 18 years of "why the hell do we have to maintain base infrastructure with end of year funds?"

I shouldn't get a call from some FAIP in Austin on Thursday about how to hook VR up to AFNET for updates/google maps access/whatever and he needs a solution by Friday.  He's not talked to his Comm Sq or his A6.  He's not even sure who's providing his current internet connection, or how it runs.  His OG/CC sent him there TDY with the mandate to "get it to work."  I hope that bro got more assistance from my AETC/A6 POCs, he'd never spoken to them about the project.  That phone call sucked--that's a fucking foul on Ops. 

If you don't think I know what I'm talking about, read through my post history and I'd advise you to feel free to stay in your lane and stfu.

Apologies for the thread derail, back to OBOGS.