T-6s Grounded; More OBOGS Issues

[pawnman]

On 9/16/2018 at 7:14 PM, YoungnDumb said:

^yup.

At SOS everything the Generals discussed during our lectures was "our problem to solve."  When asked why, since they've ID'ed the problem so why don't they get to fixing it, the response was "we're all retiring soon and you are the future of the AF, so come up with a solution."  Great leadership.

So I guess they want the captains to approve multi million dollar contracts to get new parts installed...? Or to decide on what the T-X will be and when to start buying them?

[tac airlifter]

On 9/17/2018 at 4:44 AM, YoungnDumb said:

^yup.

At SOS everything the Generals discussed during our lectures was "our problem to solve."  When asked why, since they've ID'ed the problem so why don't they get to fixing it, the response was "we're all retiring soon and you are the future of the AF, so come up with a solution."  Great leadership.

These are my problems to solve but I’m not empowered to solve?  I’m responsible for outcomes without being given the authority to implement solutions?

If you consider the amount of time, money and effort we spend educating General Officers, it’s truly astounding to hear them utter this kind of crap.  

One good thing though— at least they’re showing you the way this works now, at SOS, while you’re young.  “I micro-manage, hoard authority, stick to the status quo, secretly reduce your strat for thinking out of the box, and blame you for screw ups only I was actually empowered to fix” will be a commander you work for in the USAF.  So recognize the broken organization for what it is, and make your life choices accordingly.  It’s good to show the young the absurdity of what awaits them higher up.

[BashiChuni]

and how absurd it is for everyone to blindly strive to take their position at the top....families, lifestyle, and integrity be damned

[YoungnDumb]

5 hours ago, pawnman said:

So I guess they want the captains to approve multi million dollar contracts to get new parts installed...? Or to decide on what the T-X will be and when to start buying them?

$hit, even if we decided on the TX now, we'll be Generals by the time it gets approved...then it'll be someone elses problem to do the testing, so yea I guess it is up to us to approve them!

[LookieRookie]

From AviationWeek

Seems like AETC/CC thinks there's nothing wrong with the system even though it was just briefed the O2 concentration can be whack.

 

 

USAF Calls T-6 Physiological Events ‘Extreme Outliers’

Aerospace Daily & Defense Report

Lee Hudson

Sep 18, 2018

 

USAF

 

NATIONAL HARBOR, Maryland—The U.S. Air Force has not completed its safety investigation board focused on the increase of physiological events (PEs) for T-6 Texan II trainer pilots but says early analysis indicates these incidents are “extreme outliers.”

Lt. Gen. Steven Kwast, Air Education and Training Command (AETC) chief, told reporters at the Air Force Association’s annual symposium here Sept. 18 that initial indications show problems with the T-6’s on-board oxygen generation system (Obogs) have nothing to do with the mix of gases delivered to the pilot. One of the things the service will do is optimize the system’s software so it is delivering oxygen at a more consistent rate.

The service still needs to brief Air Force Secretary Heather Wilson on the deep dive conducted at Edwards AFB, California, that was aiming to pinpoint the root cause.

After a stand-down of roughly one-month following a series of hypoxia-like events, T-6 student and instructor pilots returned to flying the aircraft Feb. 27, and since then the service has been averaging approximately 7.8 PEs per month. The services defines a PE as when aircrew experience symptoms that can result from a variety of factors, including hypoxia, hypocapnia, hypercapnia or disorientation.

The service is implementing a series of corrective measures to reduce the number of physiological events that pilots are experiencing, including the redesign of the oxygen system and the ability to adjust oxygen levels in flight.

AETC will increase maintenance on the T-6’s Obogs and the service anticipates it will take two to four years to redesign the system to stabilize the oxygen levels that pilots breathe while in flight. Concurrently, AETC and Air Force Materiel Command (AFMC) are working with industry to adjust the Obogs software algorithm to stabilize oxygen concentrations.

Some pilots are unable to deal with the physiological stress and experience symptoms resulting from receiving either too little oxygen, or too little carbon dioxide.

AFMC established an independent review team to investigate why this was happening and the organization worked with AETC to conduct a full Obogs inspection.

During those inspections the Obogs filter and drain valves were found to fail at a higher rate than the service anticipated. The service will now implement new maintenance procedures, such as purging excess moisture from the Obogs, so that it operates more efficiently, Doherty said in a statement.

Brig. Gen. Edward Vaughan, Air Force Physiological Episodes Action Team (AF-PEAT) lead, will collaborate with service officials to determine if the T-6 Obogs measures should be applied to other aircraft that use the system.

AETC also is creating new study materials for T-6 pilots that focus on identifying symptoms, responses and corrective procedures for PEs.

The 2019 National Defense Authorization Act, which was enacted Aug. 14, directs the Air Force secretary to submit a report to the congressional defense committees no later than March 1 of next year outlining all efforts the service is pursuing to reduce the occurrence of and mitigate the risk posed by PEs.

The report must include the rate of PEs affecting crewmembers of covered aircraft; a description of the specific actions carried out by the service; a description of any upgrades or modifications; and an explanation of any organizational changes the Air Force has made. The new law defines covered aircraft as the F-35A, T-6A and any other Air Force aircraft as determined by the secretary.

[flyusaf83]

On the topic of having the rank and file fix the GOs’ problems, let me tell you about the “innovation” team here at my AETC squadron.

The team consists of a few senior capts and junior majors, who have other additional duties. They have been charged with figuring out how to acquire the VR equipment without the AF working a contract for it, set up the VR in the squadron without comm support, and incorporate it into the syllabus without staff support.  No support from the staff, no contracting support, no IT support, nothing.  Just figure it out.  It’s really important apparently, but not important enough for the staff to fund it and write it into the syllabus.

So now this team is working long hours, attempting to learn the job of contracting and comm, and fix the AF’s mess.  And oh yeah. Flying sometimes gets in the way.

Edited September 20, 2018 by flyusaf83

[17D_guy]

47 minutes ago, flyusaf83 said:

set up the VR in the squadron without comm support, and incorporate it into the syllabus without staff support.

So, lets say they manage to get through all those hurdles without a FWA or contracting complaint and getting slammed.  When it breaks...who's going to fix it.  And when this shithead CC leaves...is it going to stay in place?

I love it when I'm busy doing my cyber stuff and my CC tells me to learn how to formation fly a civ T-6 on my "other" time, without OG or MX assistance.

Strongly encourage a FWA call...

[kenderman]

Is that at END by chance?

[flyusaf83]

5 minutes ago, milkman said:

Is that at END by chance?

Nope, but I’m sure it’s similar cluster there.  The UPT bases and PIT are all rushing to set up VR right now, and not exactly working together to do it.  In fact, they are competing with each other for resources.  Each commander is invested in the innovation dick-measuring contest, and whoever gets VR done first wins.  

This is what happens under a dickless vacuum of leadership with vague guidance and a bunch of zealot CCs and DOs desperate for that next carrot in the AF pyramid scheme.  I think SOS called it laissez faire leadership or something like that.  

[mp5g]

So one iteration (successful or not still yet to be seen) of UPT Next through the gate and VR has to now be incorporated into UPT and PIT. Jesus. We really have gotten there haven’t we. 

 

[BashiChuni]

Nothing wrong with incorporating VR. What’s your point?

[17D_guy]

9 hours ago, BashiChuni said:

Nothing wrong with incorporating VR. What’s your point?

1) How do the training results hold up?

2) What value is there in every squadron spinning up their own version?

3) What is the level to which home-spin VR will be utilized to train of a single class iteration?

4) How does it get funded?

5) How do you get that shit to work with the Cyber dudes?

That's just spitballing.  By all means, keep home-growing (in each squadron) a separate solution to the same problem without any outside expertise for input.

[BashiChuni]

if we worked thru all those questions it'd take damn near 15 years to get anything fielded.

as a comm guy i wouldn't be chunking spears at ops dudes trying to make things happen...there is outside expertise being sought...but it ain't from some base comm sq

by all means feel free to stay in your lane and stfu

 

edit: why the fck does it have to work with the cyber dudes? i dont think you know what the hell you're talking about.

edit: IF you’re comm. cyber. Finance. Whatever. 

Edited September 21, 2018 by BashiChuni

[jrobe]

6 hours ago, BashiChuni said:if we worked thru all those questions it'd take damn near 15 years to get anything fielded.

True but then why the hell are we buying things in the first place...you have to answer these questions

6 hours ago, BashiChuni said:

As a comm guy i wouldn't be chunking spears at ops dudes trying to make things happen...there is outside expertise being sought...but it ain't from some base comm sq

by all means feel free to stay in your lane and stfu 

B.S. flag.  Every time I have seen Ops take initiatives to purchase and/or develop new training or tools that involve a freek’in computer or IT....A6 and the comm SQ attempt to put their meat beaters all over it....example #1 EFB....when A6 found out about that the A3 said f’it let’s roll.....it’s you could hear the screams of horror from across the street.

same with the PFPS computers...I mean Weapons systems....comm gets pissy about them every time they want to push an update and we say f-off...you can’t mess with it because we have our own dudes that will fix them

6 hours ago, BashiChuni said:

edit: why the fck does it have to work with the cyber dudes? i dont think you know what the hell you're talking about.

edit: IF you’re comm. cyber. Finance. Whatever. 

I hope 0.....but I don’t think you know what the f you are talking about.....it will at some level...hopefully just in the coord process....but again....they have an empire to maintain.

 

 

[pawnman]

11 hours ago, 17D_guy said:

1) How do the training results hold up?

2) What value is there in every squadron spinning up their own version?

3) What is the level to which home-spin VR will be utilized to train of a single class iteration?

4) How does it get funded?

5) How do you get that shit to work with the Cyber dudes?

That's just spitballing.  By all means, keep home-growing (in each squadron) a separate solution to the same problem without any outside expertise for input.

I'll tell you the B-1s are working with the guys from UPT-Next on a VR set-up for the FTU.  So...not exactly a separate solution, and not exactly without outside expertise.
I get what you're saying...but the guys in the trenches of the FTU don't want to wait another decade for the Air Force to finally move on this program, so they're doing it themselves, with wing-level funding from things like the Spark Tank competitions, and dragging our training into the 21st century in SPITE of our cyber organization, instead of being able to LEVERAGE our cyber organization.

[Homestar]

Wings can’t afford what is being sold out there for VR, etc. MAJCOMs owe the wings better than what they’re giving right now. 

[ayz33]

Anyone know of the Navy t-6 down at KCPS since last week? One pilot hauled off in ambulance after emergency landing. Not much that i know besides it may have been some sort of depressurization or PE of some sort. I got secondhand info from someone who heard it on the radio. Hope they're ok

[Standby]

5 hours ago, Homestar said:

Wings can’t afford what is being sold out there for VR, etc. MAJCOMs owe the wings better than what they’re giving right now. 

You’re joking, right? You could probably buy 300 fully rigged VR stations for the cost of one of the WST projectors. 

[Homestar]

3 hours ago, Standby said:

You’re joking, right? You could probably buy 300 fully rigged VR stations for the cost of one of the WST projectors. 

Not just VR but wings are looking to buy some really expensive stuff. Unproven stuff that they don’t need. 

[Sprkt69]

1 minute ago, Homestar said:

Not just VR but wings are looking to buy some really expensive stuff. Unproven stuff that they don’t need. 

Gotta do something with those end of year funds!  Kinda like the reason why the DFAC always has 69 flat screens to tell you “Have a great Air Force day!”

[Standby]

22 minutes ago, Homestar said:

Not just VR but wings are looking to buy some really expensive stuff. Unproven stuff that they don’t need. 

Dude you’re smoking crack. 

[Homestar]

1 hour ago, Standby said:

Dude you’re smoking crack. 

I wish. But when I hear the quotes for the tech my wing is looking to purchase I can’t help but be surprised that we have that kind of money. 7 figures is too much to spend on toys. 

[LookieRookie]

29 minutes ago, Homestar said:

I wish. But when I hear the quotes for the tech my wing is looking to purchase I can’t help but be surprised that we have that kind of money. 7 figures is too much to spend on toys. 

Give an example.

 

I can say nebulous stuff like my wing is looking to spend 8 figures to build the Matrix for a virtual Red Flag but that doesn't make it true.

[Homestar]

https://glass.aero/shop/

edit to add: I think these would be pretty sweet to have. But teaching a T5101 Stan how to land is difficult enough without exploding his brain with this nonsense. 

Edited September 22, 2018 by Homestar

[BashiChuni]

3 hours ago, Homestar said:

https://glass.aero/shop/

edit to add: I think these would be pretty sweet to have. But teaching a T5101 Stan how to land is difficult enough without exploding his brain with this nonsense. 

Lol. You’re not even close. Put the crack pipe down.