The new airline thread

[pawnman]

9 hours ago, Kenny Powers said:

How'd you convince the pilots to let you do the flying?

I just tell the LTs to move.

[Warrior]

https://www.foxnews.com/travel/2018/08/30/woman-claims-united-airlines-paid-her-75-hush-money-after-man-masturbated-next-to-her-for-hours.html
 
Really?  For "hours"?  
Sounds... impressive.
 

That article is depressing. It’s United’s fault that the snowflake wouldn’t do anything proactive to make the guy stop? Instead she waits until he’s done....”hours later”

Also, United needs a new PR department.

[Danger41]

19 hours ago, hindsight2020 said:

 BL, when it comes times to (and I quote the legendary Dio here) ride the Tiger

I thought that was about injecting heroin...

[billy pilgrim]

On 9/1/2018 at 6:02 AM, HuggyU2 said:

https://www.foxnews.com/travel/2018/08/30/woman-claims-united-airlines-paid-her-75-hush-money-after-man-masturbated-next-to-her-for-hours.html

 

Really?  For "hours"?  

Sounds... impressive.

 

 

[Gazmo]

Any ARC dude/dudets here that used to be ART's before bailing for airlines? If so... What are the legalities of staying in an ART position, but taking leave through indoc and then continuing to work as an ART while waiting for aircraft training (if say it takes 6-8 weeks to get into a class)? Can you do it or is it against company policy? As far as I can tell, it is not against OPM rules to have a second job while you are a federal employee.

 

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[matmacwc]

I know guys that did it, just permission from your CC, I’d tell the airline you are on leave until IOE or whenever you run out of leave.  Check with your local Bob’s

[Gazmo]

I know guys that did it, just permission from your CC, I’d tell the airline you are on leave until IOE or whenever you run out of leave.  Check with your local Bob’s

Ok. I'm not really talking about being on "terminal leave" by blowing banked ART annual leave, but actively showing up to work your ART job M-F while waiting for training. I realize different airlines may have different policies, but for example; Company X pays you from Day #1 of Indoc. An ART takes leave to do Indoc, but then has a 6-8 week wait for aircraft training so instead of resigning from his ART job, he goes back to work as an ART and resigns two weeks before his aircraft training starts, essentially "double-dipping". I have no doubts guys have done it, but of course that doesn't make it legal. The OPM talks about ethics issues and such, but none of which would apply to an airline job.

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[Jaded]

I'm pretty sure no airline cares what you do between indoc and training. The only caveat my airline has is that you can't fly for hire once you're on the payroll (military excluded.) 

It was weird to me too transitioning to working for an employer who doesn't give a shit what you do when you're not at work. 

[Sneedro]

5 hours ago, Gazmo said:

Ok. I'm not really talking about being on "terminal leave" by blowing banked ART annual leave, but actively showing up to work your ART job M-F while waiting for training. I realize different airlines may have different policies, but for example; Company X pays you from Day #1 of Indoc. An ART takes leave to do Indoc, but then has a 6-8 week wait for aircraft training so instead of resigning from his ART job, he goes back to work as an ART and resigns two weeks before his aircraft training starts, essentially "double-dipping". I have no doubts guys have done it, but of course that doesn't make it legal. The OPM talks about ethics issues and such, but none of which would apply to an airline job.

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Depending on the airline you may not know how long you have between INDOC and training until you are actually at INDOC.  I was an ART, got hired at my airline, resigned my ART job (because it was the worst job I ever had so I was more than ready to go), and went to INDOC.  While there I found out I had 7 days between INDOC and Day 1 of training.  During those 7 days I was responsible for getting through the at home training portion of the course and ready to take the written test Day 2.  No way I would've wanted to deal with working the ART job or even out-processing from it.  Much much much more important things to focus on: airline stuff and family stuff.

 

Obviously the flip side of it is if you have 6-9 months off...personally I wasn't willing to take a chance of having limited time to do anything more than study.  If you are a reservist you could probably do the trough thing just as easily as do the ART job IMHO.

[Duck]

Anyone know what the wait is to get a class date at Southwest once you are offered the job?

[baller06]

July interviewees have October and possibly even November class dates. Things got pushed back a bit lately. SW typically has a 120 day window (IIRC) from invite to class to keep candidates from stringing the company along and they were getting close to not meeting that requirement on their end lately.

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[matmacwc]

Yes, I know at least 1 dude to do what you spelled out as an ART.  In our unit you could make more money just taking orders.

[HuggyU2]

On 9/7/2018 at 5:34 PM, Jaded said:

 The only caveat my airline has is that you can't fly for hire once you're on the payroll (military excluded.) 

Would you clarify this?  

You cannot fly for hire between indoc and training?  Or ever?  

[Jaded]

2 hours ago, HuggyU2 said:

Would you clarify this?  

You cannot fly for hire between indoc and training?  Or ever?  

Ever. They have no way of tracking your FAA hour limits (like 30 in 7 or 100 in 30) for outside flying so their solution is to just prohibit it. 

[Hacker]

Outside professional flying just requires chief pilot permission at my airline -- and numerous guys have that permission.

Most that I know of do airshow flying or instructing.

[HuggyU2]

Jaded, 

I know at least one pilot at each of the 6 major airlines that do commercial flying on the side. Like Hacker states, there is usually a company process for approval.

Edited September 9, 2018 by HuggyU2

[matmacwc]

12 hours ago, Jaded said:

Ever. They have no way of tracking your FAA hour limits (like 30 in 7 or 100 in 30) for outside flying so their solution is to just prohibit it. 

Guess there are no airline pilots in the guard or Reserve.

[nunya]

22 minutes ago, matmacwc said:

Guess there are no airline pilots in the guard or Reserve.

I know you're being facetious, but mil flying is explicitly exempt from the rules being discussed.  You don't have to jump through any of the hoops or approvals for Guard/Reserve flying, and it doesn't count against any of the FAA limits.

[Jaded]

 

5 hours ago, matmacwc said:

Guess there are no airline pilots in the guard or Reserve.

 

On 9/7/2018 at 7:34 PM, Jaded said:

The only caveat my airline has is that you can't fly for hire once you're on the payroll (military excluded.) 

🙄

Edited September 10, 2018 by Jaded

[JeremiahWeed]

2 hours ago, joe1234 said:

If you're an AGR, you can drop 5 straight years the very day after indoc. Yeah, it "looks bad", but guys do it all the time with no issues. Hell, I'd do it if I was still on first year pay.

"No issues for them"  but how about those who hope to follow them.  I'd think a little bit about dropping that grenade at the bottom of the ladder and pulling it up behind you just to avoid being junior.  If you get activated, that's different.  If you go into it planning to walk away after day one of indoc or after probation is over,  you stand to hose a lot of buds who may be trying to follow your path.  Maybe you'll be a number lost in the current hiring wave at some of the biggies - maybe not.  It's been a clear trend over the last few years at FedEx (maybe other airlines - can't say for certain) that their enthusiasm for hiring current guard/reserve pilots has diminished significantly.  USERRA protects current employees - it doesn't guarantee someone will get hired if a particular airline has had enough of their current pilots dropping 5 years of orders.  Not too difficult to find a reason not to hire someone without admitting it might be to avoid hiring an empty uniform for the next 5 years.  Just food for thought.

[brabus]

I don't disagree with you, 5 years is a long time to immediately bail on your new employer.  From a macro level though, does a few guys doing this really have much of an effect when there's 14K+ pilots on the payroll? Reality is you're talking about maybe 1% of the pilots at a given major doing something like that. Emotions aside, that's pretty inconsequential.  Add on the fact many ARC pilots are well qualified for these jobs - does an airline want to pass on those caliber of individuals because they might execute a plan like this (not to mention they've secured a guy for 25-30 years after his hiatus)? To be clear, I'm not going down this road now or in the future, but it does seem like this topic can be emotionally blown out of proportion, especially when guys are taking mil leave to fill badly needed positions (and not just throwing mil leave around simply to avoid holiday flying, etc.).  At my unit there are dudes on mil leave without a lot of time at the airline, but they are doing critical jobs that frankly we'd be in a very tough spot if they hadn't come back full time - that's what USERRA is for, why should they be judged because they came back after 1 year?

[ImNotARobot]

Along these lines, I'm hearing (from multiple sources) that Delta specifically is now avoiding the "Guard / Reserve Captains" due to the trend of dropping copious mil leave soon after hiring. That stinks for all the hopefuls.

My immediate thought (if the airlines are going to play that game) would be that a 15+ yr Maj/LtC is a bigger threat. They are the one within striking distance of possibly getting an AD retirement after a big chunk of orders on staff/etc. Not the line flying Captain still within his UPT commitment. 

In any case, rumors and innuendo are worth exactly what you paid for them. I heard it from the bus driver who's cousin walks the babysitter's dog for the #3 decision maker at Delta. So like I said, very close hold.

[brabus]

I don’t think that’s happening as much as the rumors say...I know a lot of ARC bros who are Capt/young Maj getting hired at delta and the rest of the big ones (including a couple at fed ex). I’m not surprised either, take the emotion out of it and by the numbers it doesn’t make sense for a company to bypass high quality applicants for anti-USERRA reasons. 

[Sneedro]

17 hours ago, joe1234 said:

If you're an AGR, you can drop 5 straight years the very day after indoc. Yeah, it "looks bad", but guys do it all the time with no issues. Hell, I'd do it if I was still on first year pay.

Yes you can legally do this but every airline is different.  At my airline you will then start your probationary period where you left off (seen it happen which catches some off guard because they thought they would be good to go when they returned).  Aside from maybe deploying or being activated, I made as much on first year pay while I was an ART.  I could still do my TR stuff to make up that part of the reserve pay.  The only difference was I worked maybe half as much.  First year pay can be a kick in the junk off of active duty but coming from an ART job?  Not much difference other than the extra free time you have as an airline guy.

 

Get through the probationary period...then if you want to drop long term mil to avoid "lower" pay or seniority, go for it but understand doing so could be F-ing your buddies as others have said.  Airlines love retired mil dudes so they can say they are military friendly.  With all the shenanigans of people dropping long term mil as soon as they are hired, well I think the airlines are getting annoyed at active reserves because they are trying to harass mil guys more within the restrictions of the law obviously.  I have a lot of buddies still in the military hoping to get hired when they punch.  I am just one of thousands at my airline but I am not going to do stuff that could hurt their chances.  

[Buddy Spike]

3 hours ago, Sneedro said:

Yes you can legally do this but every airline is different.  At my airline you will then start your probationary period where you left off (seen it happen which catches some off guard because they thought they would be good to go when they returned).  Aside from maybe deploying or being activated, I made as much on first year pay while I was an ART.  I could still do my TR stuff to make up that part of the reserve pay.  The only difference was I worked maybe half as much.  First year pay can be a kick in the junk off of active duty but coming from an ART job?  Not much difference other than the extra free time you have as an airline guy.

 

Get through the probationary period...then if you want to drop long term mil to avoid "lower" pay or seniority, go for it but understand doing so could be F-ing your buddies as others have said.  Airlines love retired mil dudes so they can say they are military friendly.  With all the shenanigans of people dropping long term mil as soon as they are hired, well I think the airlines are getting annoyed at active reserves because they are trying to harass mil guys more within the restrictions of the law obviously.  I have a lot of buddies still in the military hoping to get hired when they punch.  I am just one of thousands at my airline but I am not going to do stuff that could hurt their chances.  

 

Probation at AA is 12 months or 400 hours and a training event (R9).  Typically by second year pay, as an O-4, you're losing money doing mil.  Third year pay isn't even close.  

With the movement and pay the way it is these days, I can't see why anyone would drop long term mil leave after the first year unless you live at your ARC unit and are commuting to your airline gig and just want to stay home/not care about the pay.