The new airline thread

[Bergman]

30 minutes ago, Duck said:

I guess if you could somehow take leave that last week or try to drop one week of orders you would be good?


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Correct.  A call to the chief Pilot’s office to amend your mil duty to end early.  At DAL at least, once mil leave is on your schedule, the system locks you out of doing anything with it.

[Tactical Void]

At my airline, you'd just bid a line, drop leave the days you knew you'd be on alert, maybe add a little slop time, and then show up to fly your trips at the end of the month.
They literally do not give a shit that you're double dipping as long as you actually show up to fly what's on your schedule. Meanwhile other dudes are getting threatened with being fired. that.
The company you work for matters.

What company do you work for?


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[Guardian]

Ignorant question. Whats to stop someone from being on 30 day alert orders, sitting their 12 days of alert in the first 3 weeks of the month and then picking up and flying an airline trip the last week that you are off but still technically under orders?


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Man. I hope the answer is nothing is wrong. It would be the same as a weekend or leave. And what you choose to do during that time given back to you is yours to make. Someone please say that’s the case.

[AirGuardianC141747]

Maybe your life insurance is in question. Some airlines have stipulations via insurance companies regulatory policies. Life/limb catastrophic issues demand payment, but airlines are good at circumnavigating this arena so be aware. Makes sense that is your time and many pilots fly recreationally as well and do more high exposure activities if you will. Your a loss Manning wise, but the insurance might be a plausible note. One of our folks had an issue/death on the road and it seems there was much contention regarding payment of insurance. Company time vs off company time (flying), but the issue was he was on a trip. I hope to believe this wouldn’t happen in the Big 3 or other biggies. I am not going to say beyond company... Many know though. Just some thoughts...

While your an asset, you can be a liability as well.

Edited May 17, 2019 by AirGuardianC141747

[Smokin]

Fill out the off base employment form with your commander, that would protect you from the military side.  If the airline goes after you *cough Delta* they would have to go after ALL pilots who have side jobs or they are violating federal discrimination laws as Delta is finding out with a class action lawsuit that Delta is going to lose big time.  For the life insurance thing, if you're worried about it, buy your own from AAFMA.  Mine is dirt cheap for $800K and they don't care a bit who you were working for or what your orders said.  And if you fill out that form with the AF, I don't think you'd have any problem with a line of duty determination.

BLAB: You're fine as long as you cover your bases paperwork-wise.

[SocialD]

On 5/14/2019 at 10:23 AM, Duck said:

Ignorant question. Whats to stop someone from being on 30 day alert orders, sitting their 12 days of alert in the first 3 weeks of the month and then picking up and flying an airline trip the last week that you are off but still technically under orders?

Leave reg mainly.  It can be mitigated, but you still have touch work every 4ish days (depending on how you swap alert) to stay stay legal.  Other than that, as long as you've done the proper paperwork like Smokin mentioned, I haven't seen any good/logical reason why someone couldn't do this.  I've had a few leadership types at DAL quote things like AirGuardian mentioned, as well as a few other minor things which are all totally bogus.  What it boils down to is there were a few management types that just can't stand the thought of dudes being paid by two masters.  Sadly, the worst one (now removed from that position) is a former AF Reserve pilot.  

On the other hand, I don't understand why you'd want to ruin the best gig going (part-timer) by trying to work both gigs full time....WAY too much work!

[BADFNZ]

How early is too early to take mil leave?  Is there such a thing?

I got hired at a major and will start training right when I begin terminal leave.  I also Palace Chased but won't have a chance to in-process with my unit until after airline training.  Would it be frowned upon to finish training, then immediately drop mil leave to head up to my AFRC unit to in-process?  Is there an unwritten limit on how much mil leave I should take in this instance considering I'd still be on IOE and probation?

Edited August 7, 2019 by BADFNZ

[HossHarris]

26 minutes ago, BADFNZ said:

How early is too early to take mil leave?  Is there such a thing?

I got hired at a major and will start training right when I begin terminal leave.  I also Palace Chased but won't have a chance to in-process with my unit until after airline training.  Would it be frowned upon to finish training, then immediately drop mil leave to head up to my AFRC unit to in-process?  Is there an unwritten limit on how much mil leave I should take in this instance considering I'd still be on IOE and probation?

While you CAN..... it’s generally considered polite to wait until you’re off probation. 

Hell, you can drop mil leave in Indoc if you’re feeling froggy. 

[nunya]

37 minutes ago, BADFNZ said:

Would it be frowned upon to finish training, then immediately drop mil leave to head up to my AFRC unit to in-process?

Are we talking 5 days to in-process or 15 months to in-process and get MR in your new ride?

[hindsight2020]

3 minutes ago, HossHarris said:

While you CAN..... it’s generally considered polite to wait until you’re off probation. 

Hell, you can drop mil leave in Indoc if you’re feeling froggy. 

Froggy? Probation? LOL. Try the last trip of IOE. Seen it happen twice. And not just any ol'  "31+" MLOA... no no, actual effin' Title 10 3-year EAD (AGR) orders.  

 

...and that's why we can't have nice things. 

[gearhog]

You can take as much mil leave on probation as you like.

Just never ever ever check-in late, miss an altitude, commute, f-up a V1 cut, or make any other mistakes.

[Duck]

It’s amazing how different airlines look at mil leave. My place of work is extremely supportive and I can drop mil leave no questions asked. However if you started dropping mil leave during the holidays they said it would raise a bunch of flags.


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[BADFNZ]

I'm talking about a week just to in-process and do whatever else I may need to do. 

[Sneedro]

53 minutes ago, BADFNZ said:

I'm talking about a week just to in-process and do whatever else I may need to do. 

Do what you need to do.  You are talking 5 days so it isn't that big of a deal.  Your unit should understand that you need to get through INDOC and training first ( I am guessing there are quite a few airline pilots in the unit so they understand the process).  Let that be your focus.  Then you can either finish IOE and then drop the days you need or work with your IOE scheduler to coordinate a few days.  No need to wait until off probation but don't try and cheat the system. 

Edited August 7, 2019 by Sneedro

[brabus]

Whatever you do, make sure you swear in to the guard the next day after your last day on AD...have a plan to make it happen, including a day of mil leave if required. That’s not something you want to screw up. Also, I’m guessing you will likely find a work week you can in process that’s in between Indoc and training, between training and first IOE ride, etc.

[Duck]

I didn’t start dropping mil leave until after consolidation. I figured that would piss some people off if I had to go back for additional training because I couldn’t get my hours in the first 120 days.


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[SocialD]

Things that might get you a call.  Going out on MLOA longer than 5 years on orders that are not exempt.  Saying you're on MLOA but actually working at your civilian contractor side gig.  Consistently using one day of MLOA on each trip to drop all your weekend trips and then picking up weekday trips (when you 2-leg commute to your mil gig).  Dropping so much MLOA that you don't get consolidated.  Dropping a trip so you can go in and SOF for half a day on the day after Christmas.  Dropping a trip to take Stan Eval tests the day before Thanksgiving.  

 

I dropped MLOA between Indoc and sim training.  I took a week of MLOA immediately after finishing OE. I've taken MLOA over holidays.  I dropped 8 months of MLOA (spin-up/deployment) while still on probation.  I had to extend MLOA over the Super Bowl (in the company's mind that's a holiday) due to a broke dick jets and all the married guys in a hurry to get home from a dreaded 2 whole weeks of TDY.  I've dropped trips last minute for MLOA.  I've even had to call the CPO to have MLOA removed from my schedule.  With all that, even at big scary DAL, I haven't heard a single word about any of this.  Bottom line in the middle, just take what you need to get your sheit done and heed the advice of Brabus Johnson.  

 

Unless you're attached to an AD base, you shouldn't need an entire week to in-process.  My in-processing consisted of dropping my medical record at medical, flight records are ARMS, flight gear at AFE, a few forms at finance/personnel/comm and I was done in time for the lunch push.

Edited August 7, 2019 by SocialD

[Gazmo]

How early is too early to take mil leave?  Is there such a thing?
I got hired at a major and will start training right when I begin terminal leave.  I also Palace Chased but won't have a chance to in-process with my unit until after airline training.  Would it be frowned upon to finish training, then immediately drop mil leave to head up to my AFRC unit to in-process?  Is there an unwritten limit on how much mil leave I should take in this instance considering I'd still be on IOE and probation?

It shouldn't take more than a day or two (or maybe a week) to inprocess your unit. Noone is going to bat an eyelash to that, but just make sure you are working with your training schedulers managing your OE. They will most likely not have issues with short-term stuff. I still went to UTA's and flew with my unit during OE and consolidation. No questions asked. However, we (mil-types) were pulled to the side during INDOC by the company mil-rep and were explained the mil-leave do's and don'ts. They basically recommended NOT dropping long-term orders during OE and consolidation (first 120 days). They want you to get your 100 hrs and get out of restricted status. However, they said, "if you gotta... you gotta". If it's an involuntary mob, they can't really do much about it (but, really... how many invol mobs are being handed out these days?).

[mcbush]

9 hours ago, brabus said:

Whatever you do, make sure you swear in to the guard the next day after your last day on AD...have a plan to make it happen, including a day of mil leave if required. That’s not something you want to screw up.

Can you help me build some SA on why it’s so important not to have any gap during the transition? How severe is the ass pain that results from a break in service?

[Merle Dixon]

23 minutes ago, mcbush said:

Can you help me build some SA on why it’s so important not to have any gap during the transition? How severe is the ass pain that results from a break in service?

It is not important. I have several friends that had a gap in service. It mattered not.

[Disco_Nav963]

49 minutes ago, mcbush said:

Can you help me build some SA on why it’s so important not to have any gap during the transition? How severe is the ass pain that results from a break in service?

The major benefit for me in not having one was 6 months of TAMP. YMMV.

[Gazmo]

Can you help me build some SA on why it’s so important not to have any gap during the transition? How severe is the ass pain that results from a break in service?

Believe it can also F-up your flight pay. Breaks in service are never really beneficial.

[brabus]

No TAMP, fucked up pay, fucked up GI bill, etc. Nothing that can’t mostly be overcome eventually, but how much time are you wanting to spend over a months long period at FM and MPF pulling your hair out wanting to throat punch the idiot behind the desk? Maybe you get lucky and don’t experience that, but why risk it?

In the end it’s signing paperwork, so if no shit it’s either swear in or go to indoc, talk to your unit and see what they’re willing to do (backdate paperwork, etc.)

[hindsight2020]

3 hours ago, joe1234 said:

Smoke em if you got em.

yeah understood, "tragedy of the commons" behavior abounds.  To each their own.

[so.it.goes]

 

My in-processing consisted of dropping my medical record at medical, flight records are ARMS, flight gear at AFE, a few forms at finance/personnel/comm and I was done in time for the lunch push.

 

 

You, my friend, must have the most hard-working and efficient support personnel in the entire Guard... I have never had that experience in ANY of my in/out-processing situations.

 

...except, I suppose, the one time I (literally) said, "F**k it, you figure it out", left the paperwork at home station, and went to school with no issues. Maybe I got lucky, or maybe none of that shit matters anyway.