The new airline thread

[Init2]

Haha yeah I did that, just looking for more specifics, it seems pretty vague 

[SocialD]

26 minutes ago, Cherokeeflyer said:

Haha yeah I did that, just looking for more specifics, it seems pretty vague 

 

Honestly, if you're finishing up a 10 year UPT commitment, and meet the mins, you're well qualified.  

[ImNotARobot]

https://careers.fedex.com/pilot-minimum-qualifications

Not general at all. 500 TPIC required. All other requirements a regulatory—ATP, passport, etc.

Competitive? I’d get a sponsor to provide a Primary Endorsement (PE). When hiring starts back up sometime in 2020 (we think), the first ones to get a call will most likely have a PE.

The hiring landscape has certainly changed almost overnight. I’d expect the cargo outfits to be more selective now. All my opinion; no science there.

[Init2]

Great info thanks guys! Good luck to everyone

[AirGuardianC141747]

On 3/30/2020 at 11:15 AM, ImNotARobot said:

Competitive? I’d get a sponsor to provide a Primary Endorsement (PE). When hiring starts back up sometime in 2020 (we think), the first ones to get a call will most likely have a PE.

The hiring landscape has certainly changed almost overnight. I’d expect the cargo outfits to be more selective now. All my opinion; no science there.

Oooh, I firmly believe your opinion is fact. Applicants are lining up at our door; therefore, more qualified candidates are at your door around the block no doubt about it. We haven’t been able to be selective due to contract issues for years, but now we are starting that trend ever so slightly.

This reverses any leverage we might have thought we had (pilot shortage, etc.) as we fumble through almost a 4 year delayed contract this upcoming Sept. Not good for us, but the checks haven’t bounce as of yet (probably because they are feather weight comparatively).

[Danger41]

So what’s the current scuttlebutt on when the airlines are going to be hiring again? 

[Scooter14]

So what’s the current scuttlebutt on when the airlines are going to be hiring again? 

Your question reminds me of this old aviation story...



I don’t think anyone knows right now, because I don’t think we’ve hit the bottom yet.

[Hacker]

35 minutes ago, Danger41 said:

So what’s the current scuttlebutt on when the airlines are going to be hiring again? 

I don't know that any of them are yet even certain if they're going to furlough or not.

That being said, Purple is currently planning on filling classes from the hiring pool throughout the rest of the year.

[HuggyU2]

Hacker, 

Good time to be "in cargo".  Congrats.  

[Hacker]

9 hours ago, HuggyU2 said:

Hacker, 

Good time to be "in cargo".  Congrats.  

I am going out of my way to not "whistle past the graveyard" -- we have no idea what will be ultimately impacted by this situation, and I don't at all believe that cargo is immune to the wrecking ball.  The 2008 recession hit Purple heavily, and if it weren't for a contract provision that allowed across-the-board reductions in flying hours instead of furloughs, there certainly would have been cargo guys put out on the street, too.

My thought is that if this current thing lasts longer than just the spring/early summer, and really does become another great recession, the job losses (or the delays in re-starting jobs) will mean people will be ordering less stuff online, and there will be a lot less cargo that needs to be moved.  Just like in '08.

So, I think there will be more than enough misery to go around all sectors of the entire industry, unfortunately. I'm strapping in and preparing for the worst.

[AirGuardianC141747]

Hacker on point. Especially using part of his statement gave me the chills a bit but very very true. Nothing is “immune” in aviation. Plenty of cargo now, but so many factors out there so we’ll keep at it.. Always cyclic like many things.

Edited April 12, 2020 by AirGuardianC141747

[disgruntledemployee]

Complaining Checklist

So I've been keeping up with my airline's pilot forum, doing what any newb should do, stay quiet and listen.  But I'm getting quite tired of the "us vs union vs them vs us," "pay me," and etc. attitudes.  And tired of the "gross mismanagement" talk like anyone would ever fathom that air traffic would fall 95% for months to come.  I've already concluded that there will be displacements and furloughs this fall, barring any further gov't assistance (but now they want to change this latest deal to 70% grant/30% loan).  I'd love to see a 3 Musketeer attitude, but way too much hate/distrust/anger/negativity.  I think I'll look into that truck driving school... oh wait, no schools open.  Day trading? Nope, I'll lose the rest of it trying that.  Instagram Influencer, screw that, I can't pout my face that much and not enough photoshop skillz.  Sport bitching?  Nah, season was cancelled.  Beer light has been on the last 2 weeks solid, which is nice.  Oh well.

Venting - Complete

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[gearhog]

35 minutes ago, disgruntledemployee said:

Complaining Checklist

So I've been keeping up with my airline's pilot forum, doing what any newb should do, stay quiet and listen.  But I'm getting quite tired of the "us vs union vs them vs us," "pay me," and etc. attitudes.  And tired of the "gross mismanagement" talk like anyone would ever fathom that air traffic would fall 95% for months to come.  I've already concluded that there will be displacements and furloughs this fall, barring any further gov't assistance (but now they want to change this latest deal to 70% grant/30% loan).  I'd love to see a 3 Musketeer attitude, but way too much hate/distrust/anger/negativity.  I think I'll look into that truck driving school... oh wait, no schools open.  Day trading? Nope, I'll lose the rest of it trying that.  Instagram Influencer, screw that, I can't pout my face that much and not enough photoshop skillz.  Sport bitching?  Nah, season was cancelled.  Beer light has been on the last 2 weeks solid, which is nice.  Oh well.

Venting - Complete

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If it makes you feel any better, all pilot union forums are more or less the same across airlines and time periods. Management sucks. Scheduling sucks. Hotels suck. Dispatchers suck. etc. They all said similar things prior to the current crisis, and always will in the future. Everyone talks a big game on the forum, but everyone still shows up to drive the bus for a company they think they could run better.

Pay your dues. Vote. Know the contract. When it comes time to picket, go show your face. Want me to wear a special union lanyard? Fine. Whatever happens in the industry is going to happen independent of what is said on the forums. I occasionally go months without checking the forum. When I do, I might glean a tiny fraction of usable information, but the rest is noise.

[Sua Sponte]

Buddy of mine was laid off by Compass, got the call today from Atlas for the 747. 

[SocialD]

17 hours ago, disgruntledemployee said:

Complaining Checklist

.....

Venting - Complete

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It's a good vent and not completely unwarranted as I have found myself bored with many of the thread on the those forums.  Nobody knows WTF is going to happen until this virus starts to go away or we fund a cure.  I will say, we attempted to work with the company, then they pulled the rug out from under us in the 11th hour.  That killed a ton of trust and goodwill.  It seems to have taken a many of the "moderate" pilots and moved them squarely into the hardline column.  I can certainly see why guys are saying full pay to the last day.  Many of them took a small pay cut, then a massive pay cut to try to save the company (~45% total), and the company still declared bankruptcy and furloughed anyway.  They have the benefit of having seen management play this same ole song n' dance before.  My company is more worried about the flight attendants unionizing than they are of liquidation right now.  Once those priorities switch, I'll believe they are really taking this seriously.  

Until then, there hasn't been a reserve callout in my category in well over 2 weeks.  I'm growing a righteous beard and I'm plotting my next adventure in general aviation once this mess is over with.  Btw, anyone ever built their own grass runway?  

Edited April 13, 2020 by SocialD

[Orbit]

2 hours ago, SocialD said:

 Btw, anyone ever built their own grass runway?  

 No, but I want to.

https://www.mdt.mt.gov/aviation/docs/sample-texas-design-guide.pdf

[Stoker]

21 hours ago, disgruntledemployee said:

Complaining Checklist

So I've been keeping up with my airline's pilot forum, doing what any newb should do, stay quiet and listen.  But I'm getting quite tired of the "us vs union vs them vs us," "pay me," and etc. attitudes.  And tired of the "gross mismanagement" talk like anyone would ever fathom that air traffic would fall 95% for months to come.  I've already concluded that there will be displacements and furloughs this fall, barring any further gov't assistance (but now they want to change this latest deal to 70% grant/30% loan).  I'd love to see a 3 Musketeer attitude, but way too much hate/distrust/anger/negativity.  I think I'll look into that truck driving school... oh wait, no schools open.  Day trading? Nope, I'll lose the rest of it trying that.  Instagram Influencer, screw that, I can't pout my face that much and not enough photoshop skillz.  Sport bitching?  Nah, season was cancelled.  Beer light has been on the last 2 weeks solid, which is nice.  Oh well.

Venting - Complete

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Strategically, the pilots are wanting to hold the line based on their past bankruptcy experiences. Any compromise on pay and benefits now, and a Federal bankruptcy judge will use that compromise as a starting point for new terms and conditions later. It's better to go into bankruptcy from a strong position than a weak one.

[Hacker]

8 hours ago, Sua Sponte said:

Buddy of mine was laid off by Compass, got the call today from Atlas for the 747. 

As a former Compass pilot, I approve this message.

[jrizzell]

Complaining Checklist
So I've been keeping up with my airline's pilot forum, doing what any newb should do, stay quiet and listen.  But I'm getting quite tired of the "us vs union vs them vs us," "pay me," and etc. attitudes. 
Venting - Complete

As a member of the Teamsters Union before my life in the USAF; this type of attitude is what “Union” organizations routinely sound like. Especially with old heads who’ve seen management screw the workers. Enjoy the bitching, and don’t side with Bobs..

[SocialD]

On 4/13/2020 at 10:08 AM, Orbit said:

 No, but I want to.

https://www.mdt.mt.gov/aviation/docs/sample-texas-design-guide.pdf

 

Same!  Ya, that's one of the only documents of substance I've found on the matter.  I've chatted with a few guys who've built their own and they've been a great resource.  With the amount of grass strips in my area, it may be easier to just call up the owners and ask if I could have access to their runway and attempt to buy land adjacent.

 

So as to keep the train somewhat on the tracks.  Latest DAL Crew Resources newsletter is saying they're trying to get our 300 new hires into training in June.  We'll see if that comes to fruition or what that means for the future.  Talk is we'll publish a displacement bid this week...might just be for the planes we plan on permanently parking (MD88/90 and some of our 717s and 763s).

[AirGuardianC141747]

On 4/13/2020 at 2:03 AM, Sua Sponte said:

Buddy of mine was laid off by Compass, got the call today from Atlas for the 747. 

Yup, good to get a job rolling during these times and nothing is “immune” as said before but we’re doing well. We’re being flooded right now so it doesn’t bode well for a significant contract upgrade, but I am happy to be employed so no complaints whatsoever (not that I think it’s really bad as I have family across oceans on both sides, continent hopping and food still interests me), 73 side seems to be cutting back but the rest of our iron is steadfast at this point. 777s put into place for our DHL contracts dumping some 74s, but these are being contracted out to others so the demand is still high. Your buddy will get better experience than most and be that much more marketable when hiring comes around. I don’t have a yacht, Maserati, and 2nd, 3rd mortgage, (We have our fair share of pilots with 2nd/3rd X wives), but it definitely pays the bills and the flying in the commercial sector least boring of all long haul. Heck he may like it as much as I do and if not he’ll be set up for that shiny penny operation with hats and expensive cigars!

I myself enjoy the 74, no bunks but 2 rooms dozing for a $ (unless converted Freighter/Pax Bird then bunks), mostly very nice hotels, catered food some good, some not so good but meals nevertheless, some phenomenal locations and others just OK, coming onto the flight deck taking your tie off and throwing on your pajamas with a baseball hat before departure - priceless. Cheap Cigars in Miami where we train so that’s something.

All the Union/Management throw down mentioned before is right on the money and we have our issues as well. We definitely need pay parity, but I truly believe our pilots are very upset because it would be hands down the place to work if pay, retirement, overall contract compensation were even just near Big 3 or the 2 dominant cargo outfits. Even 10% below would sway many as long as we kept our no jumpseat gateway open. Pilots will always find some issue. 17 Days is the kicker though let’s not fool anybody it is a long stretch. I am senior enough to snag 14-16 day trips and have more than 2 months off a year, but 10-14 days trips once a month would be more my style. Our schedules change often, no cookie cutter flying, nothing you can count on, but as long as I leave and come back on schedule it’s nothing but an adventure to me. I still really enjoy going to work 95% of the time so I am lucky no doubt.

*For those retiring now I have laid down a basic representation of what we’re about and we are hiring if you haven’t had a bite as of late. With your retirement it makes it very easy; therefore, I speak from a different survival perspective. Jump ship when your “dreamboat” floats by and get the most worldwide experience in the mean time. No one goes everywhere we go and I can substantiate that. It’s very USAFish but with some really good support in many cases and you’re already acclimated to change.

 

Edited April 15, 2020 by AirGuardianC141747

[AirGuardianC141747]

I will say the company definitely focuses on their business as these planes have never been cleaner since their production. We also have some $ compensation regarding the hot zones if you will. With restaurants and other food venues out of play they were covering $50 on top of per diem during hotel layovers for room service or outside delivery, etc. They took that away and just bumped up our perdiem which is nice and easier for them and us when doing our finance reports, granted it still saved them a little cash if you were in hotels for long periods. Nearly $100 a day isn’t bad, but I had a good time with $129 a day back at Ramstein. Like I said before, we’ll always find something to complain about. Business is good for now and we’ve been pulling planes back out of storage to meet demands vs parking them. Everything is cyclic so we pray everyone gets back out there. It has been very quiet flying around, especially over CPDLC coverage areas. I routinely do radio check-ins just to remain vigilant and the controllers are bored, want to talk anyway and happy to be employed as I am. Overall, it seems we have pulled together somewhat and keeping those “Air Bridge” missions going is our focus as it should be.

Edited April 17, 2020 by AirGuardianC141747

[AirGuardianC141747]

Additional note regarding “Gateway” privileges. Must be greater than 130 miles from your domicile to be eligible. Airport normally must provide a couple of flights by two different carriers daily to reach main hubs, etc to be moved to your domicile and also provides the company the ability to move you to any airport where the aircraft turns to start your “pattern.” Granted, so many airports are already on the list and most requests are granted very easily it seems. 

***”Gateway” is the reason most of us stay with this Company as jump seating/finding your own way is not a worry at all in any way. 95% or more commercial pilots jump back and forth, have crash pads or reside at their domicile to ease this burden. While “commuting” to work is not ideal, the kicker is we Live Where We Want. If you live in your dream location that just happens to be a domicile, no argument there - you have got it made as long as that domicile remains open. Have flown with many folks who have never left their home town which is amazing if that is your thing. We move quite a bit so it’s been a blessing while we find our way to the greenest pastures. Scheduling works with several guys roaming around in huge RVs half the year/all year and gateway out of places they travel to across the U.S. and if their wife drives somewhere else, he flies into the nearest airport she went too. Granted, it’s a good way to lose your stuff if she hates you!

Bottom Line: Getting to work is literally half the pressure of your career in the commercial world. It’s not just the ease of booked/paid for seats getting to work, if we do our part and at the airport ready to board the ticketed flight, no matter what happens we are not held accountable period. Flight cancellations, Weather delays, Maintenance delays, Flight Delays, etc. Not My Problem. Scheduling’s problem which takes a load off. No worries, rebook me, send me to a paid hotel, send me home. Challenging prior to the pandemic due to overbooking, others who get ahead of you, etc. vs pandemic now - advice is to book 3 flights minimum ahead as they cancel all the time due to no loads whatsoever.

If we were to lose Gateway due to contract negotiations (not very likely due to our ever changing contracts), then I would consider jumping ship and at least get paid to be a scheduler, jump-seat, crash-pad and a responsible grownup to show up and work no matter what circumstances/environment we may live in. 

Edited April 19, 2020 by AirGuardianC141747

[Ryder1587]

What is the latest you can apply for separation?  How long does it normally take to get approved?  For example , if you had no commitment starting August Of this year , you could apply up to a year prior to that correct ?  What if you don’t have a job lined up and find out in June or July an airline wants to hire you.  Could the process be done in a month or two ?  Or for some dudes like in the current situation who decide to stay in but then decide to get out , how long would it take ?

[SurelySerious]

31 minutes ago, Ryder1587 said:

What is the latest you can apply for separation?  How long does it normally take to get approved?  For example , if you had no commitment starting August Of this year , you could apply up to a year prior to that correct ?  What if you don’t have a job lined up and find out in June or July an airline wants to hire you.  Could the process be done in a month or two ?  Or for some dudes like in the current situation who decide to stay in but then decide to get out , how long would it take ?

There’s a big it depends, but some of the long turn time items you can knock out early without a sep date. I think the TAPS is good for a few years now, and it is sometimes booked months out, so you could just get it done if you think you’ll be exiting. 
 

I think three months is probably a push it up minimum if you have TAPS done based on all the moving pieces...but I’m not an expert. Hopefully someone who has done a short notice exit can chime in.