The new airline thread

[Smokin]

Look at the separation reg, forget the name of it since haven't looked at it since I punched.  But, if it hasn't changed in the last few years, "normal" separation timeline is between 180 and 365 days.  If that works, simple as filling out the form online.  Took me about 10 min if I recall correctly.  To leave in less than 180 days, took OG/CC level approval, so depends on the climate of your group/wing.  I think it'd be pretty tough to get less than 90 days, but if you keep a healthy leave balance, terminal leave could probably get you there. 

For reference, from when I got my airline offer until my class date was 5 weeks and that was crazy quick.  By the time they sent me my paperwork on what all I needed to do, I was already multiple weeks behind for turning stuff in.  I think more normal timeline is 60 or more days from offer to class date.  So, if you keep a leave balance of roughly 60 days (max use or lose is 120 now for covid), and your OG or equivalent isn't a tool, you should be able to separate fairly comfortably in 120 days.  That being said, don't be the guy that puts down an availability date that you're not sure you can make.  Probably worth having the conversation with your commander to make sure he'll back you with for a quick exit once the airlines start hiring again.  If you're not willing to show your cards, save up the leave and put your avail at six months notice.

[Sua Sponte]

On 4/21/2020 at 1:33 PM, SurelySerious said:

There’s a big it depends, but some of the long turn time items you can knock out early without a sep date. I think the TAPS is good for a few years now, and it is sometimes booked months out, so you could just get it done if you think you’ll be exiting. 
 

I think three months is probably a push it up minimum if you have TAPS done based on all the moving pieces...but I’m not an expert. Hopefully someone who has done a short notice exit can chime in. 

You can do TAPS at home via CBT. I did it.

[Pancake]

On 4/12/2020 at 2:07 PM, disgruntledemployee said:

Complaining Checklist

So I've been keeping up with my airline's pilot forum, doing what any newb should do, stay quiet and listen.  But I'm getting quite tired of the "us vs union vs them vs us," "pay me," and etc. attitudes.  And tired of the "gross mismanagement" talk like anyone would ever fathom that air traffic would fall 95% for months to come.  I've already concluded that there will be displacements and furloughs this fall, barring any further gov't assistance (but now they want to change this latest deal to 70% grant/30% loan).  I'd love to see a 3 Musketeer attitude, but way too much hate/distrust/anger/negativity.  I think I'll look into that truck driving school...

Wait. Are you talking about airline pilot forums or Air Force pilot forums?

Baseops. APC Forums. Same same. Pilots sport bitching about pay, unfair treatment, and how leadership/management doesn’t know how to run an organization.

[FourFans]

On 4/21/2020 at 2:59 PM, Ryder1587 said:

What is the latest you can apply for separation?  How long does it normally take to get approved?  For example , if you had no commitment starting August Of this year , you could apply up to a year prior to that correct ?  What if you don’t have a job lined up and find out in June or July an airline wants to hire you.  Could the process be done in a month or two ?  Or for some dudes like in the current situation who decide to stay in but then decide to get out , how long would it take ?

 

On 4/21/2020 at 9:03 PM, Smokin said:

"normal" separation timeline is between 180 and 365 days.  If that works, simple as filling out the form online.  So, if you keep a leave balance of roughly 60 days (max use or lose is 120 now for covid), and your OG or equivalent isn't a tool, you should be able to separate fairly comfortably in 120 days.  That being said, don't be the guy that puts down an availability date that you're not sure you can make.  Probably worth having the conversation with your commander to make sure he'll back you with for a quick exit once the airlines start hiring again.  If you're not willing to show your cards, save up the leave and put your avail at six months notice.

 

This checks.

180 days is the standard timeline, but workable at 120.  I'm in the process right now.  I asked for, and got approved, a 90 slip in my separation just for COVID, but I would have been plenty comfortable for separation, and I started the process about 200 days out.

It should be as simple as applying online through vMPF and digitally submitting the form requesting a change in your separation date.  I had to stay on top of my local personnel flight, but my request was approved in 10 days.  Getting separation orders is a different story.  That requires AFPC to do things, and your MPF to do things, most of which the won't want to do until 90-60 days from the separation date...when you'll be on leave...so engage early and often when the MPF until they get the point that you're not to leave them alone until you get orders.  

Important side-notes:

- Yes, it's uncomfortable telling an airline you'll be available for training when you don't (and can't) have orders in writing yet.  It's hard to take it on faith that Big Blue won't hose you in the end, but we don't really have a choice.  Set your availability date no earlier than the date you calculate to start your terminal leave (which you can't submit for until 60 days prior to it starting).  If in doubt, go to finance and have them calculate it for you.  

- If you're separating for AFRC/ANG, engage with the in-service recruiter (ISR) ASAP.  Things like getting on the scroll for a AFRC commission can take three months.

- Have a plan A, B, C, D and Z, and don't rule any of them out until you're off IOE at your airline.

God Speed!

FF

[FourFans]

On 4/19/2020 at 4:23 PM, AirGuardianC141747 said:

...lots of excellently stated, non-whining words on Atlas...

Thanks for the good string of posts.  I'm interviewing on Tuesday, and I really needed some real talk about Atlas that wasn't drenched in negative bias. 

Hoping to fly that Queen of the Sky with you.

FF

[Pancake]

1 hour ago, FourFans130 said:

- If you're separating for AFRC/ANG, engage with the in-service recruiter (ISR) ASAP.  Things like getting on the scroll for a AFRC commission can take three months.

WTF is this scroll? I jumped to the Guard 8 years ago and all my AD commanders warned me about getting “scrolled.” Is it like the “9th hole at 9?” Nobody, FSS, recruiting, nobody on my base knows what “the scroll” is.

Please educate me.

Edited April 30, 2020 by Pancake

[VigilanteNav]

11 minutes ago, Pancake said:

WTF is this scroll? I jumped to the Guard 8 years ago and all my AD commanders warned me about getting “scrolled.” Is it like the “9th hole at 9?” Nobody, FSS, recruiting, nobody on my base knows what “the scroll” is.

Please educate me.

Scrolling only applies to AD and AFRC officers to the best of my knowledge so that's probably why no one on a Guard base has heard of it. (I've been AD, Reserve, and Guard in my career).  In the Guard, Federal Recognition is the name of the game because you can't promote without that.   Currently, I'm on AD in Air Force ROTC and scrolling is very important as we can't commission any cadets until they are scrolled.  Here was one notice to us from HQ:    On Friday, 27 Sep XX, SECDEF signed the AFROTC scroll submitted 6/20/XX for over 200 cadets.     Sounds like you had some AD "leaders" trying to scare you out of getting off AD back in the day without out any actual knowledge on their side.  Go Guard!  (I'm heading back there soon!). 

[AirGuardianC141747]

Guard Rocks!

Edited May 1, 2020 by AirGuardianC141747

[AirGuardianC141747]

2 hours ago, FourFans130 said:

Thanks for the good string of posts.  I'm interviewing on Tuesday, and I really needed some real talk about Atlas that wasn't drenched in negative bias. 

Hoping to fly that Queen of the Sky with you.

FF

now

I enjoy the variety and it’s very similar to AMC flying when engaged in change. Much better layovers for the most part, very nice hotels, decent support overall. Nothing like flying the Queen of the skies in the commercial world. I will admit I prefer the upper deck of the pure cargo birds vs the pax conversion freighters. True separated rooms vs the bunk garbage. Long trips but always interesting on the 74. Welcome aboard and it’s definitely what you make of it. Plenty of time to have fun or complain, it’s what you choose. Lady 747 will take you around the world faster than any other jetliner. She also will take you to most any airline of choice when hiring so there’s options. Not many if any other can provide a better steppingstone from the military to your 1st choice, it’s a smattering of everything. It’s not just a job, it’s an adventure. Well, it’s a job so there’s that again.

[Sua Sponte]

The Oracle of Omaha wishes the airline industry "well" after Berkshire Hathaway exited, in holdings, all four of the major airlines.

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2020-05-02/buffett-says-berkshire-reversing-course-on-airlines-again?srnd=premium

https://apple.news/AgPUrIpFORa6bB1PRV4HQsw

[AirGuardianC141747]

On 4/30/2020 at 4:52 PM, FourFans130 said:

Thanks for the good string of posts.  I'm interviewing on Tuesday, and I really needed some real talk about Atlas that wasn't drenched in negative bias. 

Hoping to fly that Queen of the Sky with you.

FF

Good place to jump to FedEx/UPS when you get the chance and/or if your young and haven’t invested quite a bit of time in Atlas and built seniority which provides a manageable lifestyle you enjoy. We are being given some compensation for some Asia flying, per diem bump for the time being. Word on the street indicates a 10% bump in normal pay without strings attached. We’ll see what the outcome is...?

[Guardian]

Guard Rocks!

Amen. Especially if you find a non TFI unit on a base by themselves. 100% pure gold best thing going. IMHO.

[AirGuardianC141747]

3 hours ago, Guardian said:

Amen. Especially if you find a non TFI unit on a base by themselves. 100% pure gold best thing going. IMHO.

You got that right. Never share iron with the AD if you have a choice. Plus your jets are pridefully maintained and clean if you will. One of my best friends still in one of my old Guard units (formerly part-time) landed himself an AGR position and just started 1 Apr. Told him it was the best move he could have made. He especially believes me now as he was at United with 5 years of seniority and like most he was unsure what the future holds. He remained in good standing/great worker/known quantity and was a previous Technician like myself there! Wish all the best for those doing the Guard thang. Nothing like a true safe haven during tough times. More points for retirement and he got a signing bonus - nothing beats that, good for him.

Edited May 4, 2020 by AirGuardianC141747

[ImNotARobot]

3 hours ago, Guardian said:

Amen. Especially if you find a non TFI unit on a base by themselves. 100% pure gold best thing going. IMHO.

"3"

[SocialD]

12 hours ago, Guardian said:

Amen. Especially if you find a non TFI unit on a base by themselves. 100% pure gold best thing going. IMHO.

 

I only regret that I have but one like to give this post.  Also, don't join the reserve squadron embedded into your current AD wing and expect all that much to change.  The people who say it isn't that bad, have never really experienced life in elsewhere. 

[brabus]

ARC with AD-owned jets is nothing more than AD-lite. You’re not experience the real ARC life unless you’re at a stand alone without an AD wing next door. 

[mcbush]

ANG still significantly better than AFRC?

[jonlbs]

1 hour ago, mcbush said:

ANG still significantly better than AFRC?

Went from a standalone ANG to ARC with AD-owned jets.

 

It isn't even close...

Edited May 4, 2020 by jonlbs

[AirGuardianC141747]

Example: During Hurricane Katrina as Chief of Scheduling/Air Guard HQ Combined Forces Lead Planner within my State, I burnt over 50 crew members (max allowable flying time) in less than 7 days running evacuation ops. Had the iron, desperate for bodies. I called Alaska ANG (C-17s) for crew members that might be hanging around and interested in helping out?

AKANG Response: We are all here wanting to help, but AD took ALL the remaining jets a few of days ago to the fight without us.

My Response: Can you help? We’ll pay the bill - Commercial Tickets, Per Diem, whatever you need. I need a minimum of 12 Pilots/8 LMs.

AKANG Response: Packed and Ready!

Thank You AKANG to this day!

*I understand that AD was ready and ran out the door the next day and it takes a couple of days to recall ANG folks at times. But 0 ANG taken, that’s a deplorable in charge and the friction of shared/rented iron. Still much friction on iron usage most likely.

God worked it out for us and them. They were greatly appreciated. ANG - One Call that’s all. We had so many ANG units show up without a call as well. Great credit shout out to the Kirtland Rescue Squadron/Special Ops Crews/PJs as well who were in the Air already when they called. Despite media crushing FEMA etc, military folks volunteer support was phenomenal.

 

 

[herkbum]

Example: During Hurricane Katrina as Chief of Scheduling/Air Guard HQ Combined Forces Lead Planner within my State, I burnt over 50 crew members (max allowable flying time) in less than 7 days running evacuation ops. Had the iron, desperate for bodies. I called Alaska ANG (C-17s) for crew members that might be hanging around and interested in helping out?
AKANG Response: We are all here wanting to help, but AD took ALL the remaining jets a few of days ago to the fight without us.
My Response: Can you help? We’ll pay the bill - Commercial Tickets, Per Diem, whatever you need. I need a minimum of 12 Pilots/8 LMs.
AKANG Response: Packed and Ready!
Thank You AKANG to this day!
*I understand that AD was ready and ran out the door the next day and it takes a couple of days to recall ANG folks at times. But 0 ANG taken, that’s a deplorable in charge and the friction of shared/rented iron. Still much friction on iron usage most likely.
God worked it out for us and them. They were greatly appreciated. ANG - One Call that’s all. We had so many ANG units show up without a call as well. Great credit shout out to the Kirtland Rescue Squadron/Special Ops Crews/PJs as well who were in the Air already when they called. Despite media crushing FEMA etc, military folks volunteer support was phenomenal.

 
 

I was a ANG CRF Ops Officer when Katrina hit. We flew out the next day for Biloxi and drove over to Stennis IAP, where we stayed for 2 weeks. One of the best things I’ve done in my 28 yrs. Met some great people and worked with the best folks in the business. We moved a shit ton of cargo for the area.


Sent from my iPhone using Baseops Network mobile app

[hindsight2020]

I'm not one to look at a gift horse in the mouth. AFRC has worked out very well for my family all things considered, and that's all I care about. To each their own. 

 

[AirGuardianC141747]

5 hours ago, herkbum said:

 

I was a ANG CRF Ops Officer when Katrina hit. We flew out the next day for Biloxi and drove over to Stennis IAP, where we stayed for 2 weeks. One of the best things I’ve done in my 28 yrs. Met some great people and worked with the best folks in the business. We moved a shit ton of cargo for the area.


Sent from my iPhone using Baseops Network mobile app

 

Fantastic and we appreciate your efforts. So many TALCE’s working including ours. It was a great show of force and long long days of non-stop dedication. Will always remember HH-60 assessment flights and the Aegis cruiser being different colors on each side (like it was sandblasted), 60ft yacht miles inland by itself and railroad tracks pushed inland 20-30ft or more. New Orleans was a disaster, but mostly a man-made one. Hurricane was a direct hit/smashed MS with its right front quadrant. So many units, so many heroes. Thanks again to all who came on a dime and saved many!

Edited May 5, 2020 by AirGuardianC141747

[herkbier]

On 4/30/2020 at 7:06 PM, AirGuardianC141747 said:

now

I enjoy the variety and it’s very similar to AMC flying when engaged in change. Much better layovers for the most part, very nice hotels, decent support overall. Nothing like flying the Queen of the skies in the commercial world. I will admit I prefer the upper deck of the pure cargo birds vs the pax conversion freighters. True separated rooms vs the bunk garbage. Long trips but always interesting on the 74. Welcome aboard and it’s definitely what you make of it. Plenty of time to have fun or complain, it’s what you choose. Lady 747 will take you around the world faster than any other jetliner. She also will take you to most any airline of choice when hiring so there’s options. Not many if any other can provide a better steppingstone from the military to your 1st choice, it’s a smattering of everything. It’s not just a job, it’s an adventure. Well, it’s a job so there’s that again.

AirGuardian, as others have posted, thanks for your candid and balanced posts on Atlas.  Good info!  I've got a phone interview with them tomorrow; while the 17 days (really it's 19 right?) on the road might be a tough pill to swallow, I think it'd be a blast to fly a 747 for a bit.  I am Palace Chase-ing and will owe some time as a Traditional Reservist.. how has that traditionally worked out with an Atlas schedule?  Since it's one big block of time, I assume dropping MilLeave for a few days knocks out the entire trip, meaning my only real option is to do my mil job during the 13/14 days at home?

[FourFans]

12 hours ago, herkbier said:

AirGuardian, as others have posted, thanks for your candid and balanced posts on Atlas.  Good info!  I've got a phone interview with them tomorrow; while the 17 days (really it's 19 right?) on the road might be a tough pill to swallow, I think it'd be a blast to fly a 747 for a bit.  I am Palace Chase-ing and will owe some time as a Traditional Reservist.. how has that traditionally worked out with an Atlas schedule?  Since it's one big block of time, I assume dropping MilLeave for a few days knocks out the entire trip, meaning my only real option is to do my mil job during the 13/14 days at home?

Curious on this answer too.

[JeremiahWeed]

FedEx hiring info:

The last two classes (8 pilots in March, 10 in April) were all hired into our Hong Kong 767 domicile and will be arriving in HK in mid to late summer. 

Quick update we received today on future hiring via internal comm:

"Due to the increase in extra sections and charters, we were unable to post a realignment bid this spring as originally planned. However, we will begin hiring 757 First Officers right away to shore up staffing needs on the fleet. In addition, we will hire 767 First Officers to staff FY21 aircraft deliveries. The 767 fleet currently stands at 85 with 18 coming into the fleet in FY21 (June 2020-June 2021). In addition, some of the schedule opportunities for the 767 are in crew-intensive international long-haul, which is also driving this hiring need."

My takeaway from this is a steady hiring cycle continuing through this year and into next year with probably a minimum of 400 pilots simply for attrition.  Many of the companies that made a practice of moving their products as belly freight on passenger aircraft have obviously had to change their mode of transit.  FedEx has taken the opportunity to negotiate long term contracts (7 years in some cases) with them and locked in a significant increase in future expected business.  So, all things continue to indicate growth and hiring.

One other thing I forgot - We had a pool of about 200 that were interviewed late summer into the fall of 2019.  My guess is those poolies will take us into late 2020 before more "off the street" pilots are being put into classes.  But, I think late summer to fall interviews this year with start dates in 2021 are a realistic expectation for anyone not interviewed yet.  Caveat all of the above with an end to Covid BS by this fall if not sooner.  We won't dodge that bullet forever if this keeps up.

Edited May 7, 2020 by JeremiahWeed