The new airline thread

[BashiChuni]

Valid points irt 9-11 security measures. Hoping for the best. 

[pawnman]

On 5/21/2020 at 6:06 PM, BashiChuni said:

ah prozac see that's where you're wrong.

in the united states it IS about the individual.

individual choice/personal responsibility/personal freedom to do what you want

if you don't feel safe around people without masks then YOU should stay home/not fly/not go to sporting events. in case you haven't noticed my man the whole reason for the lockdown (flatten the curve) has been accomplished.

standing by for another made up bull shit goal to justify 30 million people out of work.

Are you one of those people who holds up security at the airport while screaming about your 4th amendment rights at the TSA agent?

[Hacker]

20 minutes ago, pawnman said:

Are you one of those people who holds up security at the airport while screaming about your 4th amendment rights at the TSA agent?

If you can't actually argue the points with logic, it is perfectly valid to just go ad-hominem instead.

[pawnman]

2 hours ago, Hacker said:

If you can't actually argue the points with logic, it is perfectly valid to just go ad-hominem instead.

Here's some logic: masks are shown to reduce the spread of infectious diseases.

Here's another piece: there's no constitutional right to not wear a mask.

[brickhistory]

25 minutes ago, pawnman said:

Here's some logic: masks are shown to reduce the spread of infectious diseases.

Here's another piece: there's no constitutional right to not wear a mask.

As there is no, that I am aware of, passed by the legislative and executive branches (those bodies elected by the citizenry to represent them) such a law, there is also nothing other than administrative fiat that says I must.

No law trumps admin directive.  

Therefore, there is a constitutional right for me to make my own decision.

[HuggyU2]

If you were to make masks "mandatory" for airline travel, what would your criteria be?

- Medical research shows that if they are not tight fitting, the efficacy diminishes.  How do you measure/determine if they fit well enough?

- Can people hang their nose over the mask?

- I'm on a 17 hour flight to Singapore:  do I get breaks when I can remove it?  How long?  Do I only do it when in the lavatory?

- We give accommodations to people that need support animals because of various emotional issues such as PTSD.  What about those that have claustrophobia and find a mask to simply be impossible to don?  What accommodations will we make for them?  

- What materials are acceptable?  One research study I read stated that 600 count cotton along with two sheets of chiffon (made from polyester or spandex) was one of the most effective combinations.  However, I've seen some pretty shaky homemade masks that don't appear go do much of anything.  Who decides what is allowed and what isn't?  Is the person deciding trained to know the difference?  

 

Edited May 24, 2020 by HuggyU2

[hindsight2020]

So back on topic, heard SWA flushed the CJO poolies, which is not having a lot of folks feeling the "LUV" right now.  Also, internal RUMINT with SW critters in my unit indicate they feel somewhat encouraged a potential aggressive early out program extended to folks as young as 57 (early retirement payout benefits not to exceed 5 years) may indeed have the kind of traction that could stave off furloughs come Oct 1. The same of course cannot be said for United, based on the latest displacement bid.

On the AF side, I think it's pretty clear blue won again with their legendary "run the clock offense". Folks are jamming up against each other on the way back into Uncle Sammy's whip. On the ARC side, full time jobs are pretty much doneski, all musical chairs are full already, RPA jobs included. Major/Legacy airline guys in the sub-1000 from their respective bottom would be wise imo to pull the trigger on MLOA earlier rather than later, cuz the manday pots and staff full-time IMAs are going like hotcakes right now.

[Duck]

So back on topic, heard SWA flushed the CJO poolies, which is not having a lot of folks feeling the "LUV" right now.  Also, internal RUMINT with SW critters in my unit indicate they feel somewhat encouraged a potential aggressive early out program extended to folks as young as 57 (early retirement payout benefits not to exceed 5 years) may indeed have the kind of traction that could stave off furloughs come Oct 1. The same of course cannot be said for United, based on the latest displacement bid.
On the AF side, I think it's pretty clear blue won again with their legendary "run the clock offense". Folks are jamming up against each other on the way back into Uncle Sammy's whip. On the ARC side, full time jobs are pretty much doneski, all musical chairs are full already, RPA jobs included. Major/Legacy airline guys in the sub-1000 from their respective bottom would be wise imo to pull the trigger on MLOA earlier rather than later, cuz the manday pots and staff full-time IMAs are going like hotcakes right now.

Unfortunately, the loss of a “pool” at SWA was due to the EEOC. Apparently from what I was told, having a pool is illegal? Someone can probably answer that better, but that’s what I heard.


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[BashiChuni]

7 hours ago, pawnman said:

Are you one of those people who holds up security at the airport while screaming about your 4th amendment rights at the TSA agent?

Yes. 
 

#PYB

Edited May 24, 2020 by BashiChuni

[tac airlifter]

21 hours ago, pawnman said:

Here's some logic: masks are shown to reduce the spread of infectious diseases.

Here's another piece: there's no constitutional right to not wear a mask.

If you want to compel behavior in a free society, either convince me or pass a law (which my representatives can debate) and force me.  Rule by fiat neither convinces nor allows debate.  I understand you agree with mask theory, but what happens when this same method of governance enables outcomes you disagree with?  To avoid chaos, see sentence #1.  

[pawnman]

2 minutes ago, tac airlifter said:

If you want to compel behavior in a free society, either convince me or pass a law (which my representatives can debate) and force me.  Rule by fiat neither convinces nor allows debate.  I understand you agree with mask theory, but what happens when this same method of governance enables outcomes you disagree with?  To avoid chaos, see sentence #1.  

So is the removal of shoes, emptying of pockets, and taking my laptop out of the bag when going through airport security a law, or a TSA policy?

While you ponder that, I never said I want government to mandate wearing masks everywhere.  I just think guys like this Costco dude are way out of line when they scream at the local retail workers about the store's policy regarding mask wear.  

Wear one or don't.  I don't care.  I question the efficacy.  But if you're going to bring up rights, businesses also have a right to refuse service if you aren't going to abide by their policies.

 

[tac airlifter]

46 minutes ago, pawnman said:

So is the removal of shoes, emptying of pockets, and taking my laptop out of the bag when going through airport security a law, or a TSA policy?

While you ponder that, I never said I want government to mandate wearing masks everywhere.  I just think guys like this Costco dude are way out of line when they scream at the local retail workers about the store's policy regarding mask wear.  

Wear one or don't.  I don't care.  I question the efficacy.  But if you're going to bring up rights, businesses also have a right to refuse service if you aren't going to abide by their policies.

 

Obeying the TSA is a federal law.  Not sure I understand your point.  I’m saying emergency decrees that we must follow the latest utterance of supposed scientific experts is degrading legitimacy of our entire system and not the legal way to govern.  Perhaps I’m conflating this discussion of airline policy with the overall mandatory mask debate nationwide, and taking you out of context.  

 I do agree businesses have rights to refuse service and set the terms of service.  Which is why forcing those Christian bakeries to make gay wedding cakes was an injustice. 

[brickhistory]

4 hours ago, pawnman said:

So is the removal of shoes, emptying of pockets, and taking my laptop out of the bag when going through airport security a law, or a TSA policy?

While you ponder that, I never said I want government to mandate wearing masks everywhere.  I just think guys like this Costco dude are way out of line when they scream at the local retail workers about the store's policy regarding mask wear.  

Wear one or don't.  I don't care.  I question the efficacy.  But if you're going to bring up rights, businesses also have a right to refuse service if you aren't going to abide by their policies.

 

Indeed.  A business absolutely has the right to say "no mask, not welcome."  Same for shirt, shoes, or bringing in animals ( for the most part).

But for a government entity, without my consent in the form of a passed law where I get a say on it passing or not via my representative and/or executive branch executor, does not.  Or should not without a fight.

Otherwise, they'll take even more power upon themselves if they know they can do it without consequences.

 

And specifically because of the TSA buffoonery, if I have any choice in the matter, i.e., have to for work or over 12 hours of driving, I deliberately choose not to fly.

I despise the feel good, apathetic, cattle-like entity that is TSA and much of our modern conform in the name of security society.  

Goes against the grain of what we were founded upon, have been, and are supposed to be.

[TreeA10]

Watching the video of people yelling at a fellow shopper reminded me of this https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/games-primates-play/201203/what-monkeys-can-teach-us-about-human-behavior-facts-fiction

Edited May 25, 2020 by TreeA10

[nsplayr]

1 hour ago, brickhistory said:

But for a government entity, without my consent in the form of a passed law where I get a say on it passing or not via my representative and/or executive branch executor, does not.

I get what you're saying and understand the sentiment if you're on the more libertarian spectrum. It's easy to denounce executive actions you despise as unfair power grabs just like it's also easy to cheer ones you like as "cutting red tape."

But bottom line, a big percentage of all the rules governing our day-to-day lives are created and maintained by agencies of the executive branch of local, state and the federal government. Many of the things that affect your everyday like fuel mileage standards, food safety, VA lending, FAA regulations, public health orders, etc. are largely rulemaking by the executive branch. This is a part of every modern system of government; it's not some kind of voodoo tyranny.

Those kinds of agency actions and regulations as well as executive orders can be abused and it's fine to be skeptical, but your best COA is to vote for mayor/city council/governor/POTUS wisely and lobby the myriad of executive agencies and the appropriate level rather than to just break the rules because you somehow think it's your right to do so.

[brickhistory]

I'll give you the benefit of the doubt in that you were not intending as such, but your post describing the workings of the American administrative state came across as patronizing and condescending; a lecture to the peasant from the 'expert.' (see what I did there?).

 

When those agencies get to, via Congress' laziness and having the bureaucrats make unpopular decisions that the Congresscritters don't have to defend and can make a career railing against "government," insert themselves into every aspect of a citizen's life, well, fcuk that.  I don't want to lobby an unelected agency.  I want them to be there because they are enforcing a law that I voted for/against.  Not one Billy Bob Admin Guy decided I needed in order to make his annual appraisal and bonus better.

 

For once, that ancient BA in Political Science comes in handy.  Of course, there was less history, government policy, or Washington leviathan to learn back then, so perhaps I am behind the times...

[Hacker]

On 5/24/2020 at 10:11 AM, pawnman said:

Here's another piece: there's no constitutional right to not wear a mask.

Government only has the powers that they're given by the people, and everything else they don't have the authority to do.

So where's that part in the Constitution about the Government having the power to tell you what to wear?

 

Edited May 25, 2020 by Hacker

[Hacker]

1 hour ago, nsplayr said:

But bottom line, a big percentage of all the rules governing our day-to-day lives are created and maintained by agencies of the executive branch of local, state and the federal government. Many of the things that affect your everyday like fuel mileage standards, food safety, VA lending, FAA regulations, public health orders, etc. are largely rulemaking by the executive branch. This is a part of every modern system of government; it's not some kind of voodoo tyranny.

No, actually, it isn't supposed to be part of the Executive Branch's powers....it is Congress relinquishing powers it is supposed to have. "Rule making" is supposed to be performed by the "Legislative Branch"....hence, y'know, the name.

[ImNotARobot]

Thread successfully derailed fellas. Maybe we can move this mask discussion to another thread?

FedEx is draining the pool of successfully hired interviewees. Although exact future timing is unknown, it appears the original pool of roughly 200 will be empty by EOY. FedEx was hiring a little over 400/yr prior to stopping in Nov 2019. New interview timing is currently unknown. My educated guess is sometime in the fall. Also unknown is the approx number a year target for the company post COVID surge. Best of luck to all out there in this newest version of the job hunt.

[nsplayr]

5 hours ago, brickhistory said:

I'll give you the benefit of the doubt in that you were not intending as such, but your post describing the workings of the American administrative state came across as patronizing and condescending...

Not meant to be condescending at all, my bad if it came off that way. But I wrote that because...

4 hours ago, Hacker said:

No, actually, it isn't supposed to be part of the Executive Branch's powers....it is Congress relinquishing powers it is supposed to have. "Rule making" is supposed to be performed by the "Legislative Branch"....hence, y'know, the name.

It seems like some folks don't have a good understanding of how our system of government works. Executive branch rulemaking and executive orders are absolutely 100% in line with our constitutional form of government. Arguments can be made as to whether or not there is too much executive action vs congressional lawmaking and I generally agree that Congress has abdicated far too much power to the executive branch on the federal level.

Fully agree that this should be moved to the COVID thread or elsewhere and I'll disengage on other unrelated topics here; cheers.

Edited May 26, 2020 by nsplayr

[AirGuardianC141747]

This whole thing has put the brakes on a lot of lives and immediate futures. All of the places I worked militarily full up if not jam packed awaiting opportunities, cargo outfit applications stacked by the 10s of thousands, granted its a shotgun effort but you get my drift. Contracts held in limbo, concessions being pushed and other contracts forward movement have slowed to see what the future holds. CJO’s pulled or pools dissolved, training stopped, retraining stopped for now, so many variables. Hold the line on contracts, give up something or strive ahead regardless of the outcome. All is happening at once, more lessons to be learned this year and the next. Geeesh, definitely the industry of highs and lows.

[Sua Sponte]

https://www.cnn.com/2020/05/28/business/american-airlines-delta-employee-buyouts/index.html

[nsplayr]

https://abcnews.go.com/Politics/flight-attendant-unknowingly-emotional-discussion-race-airline-ceo/story?id=71004828

Heart-warming story an all, but my biggest takeaway is ?!?! that Doug is flying in the back of the jet on Southwest haha. Truly a man of the people I guess. He said all of the seats on AA were sold out 🤣

[AirGuardianC141747]

Good find nsplayr - Of course AA was sold out, packing them in like Sardines. Gotta get some profit wherever you can. SWA might be still separating pax, but what they are introducing is cargo flights as there’s money to be made there while they wait for numbers to really matter. Dougs probably not getting pay right now and maybe his frequent flyer miles are on SWA. 🤠 Cowboy Up!

[FLEA]

Curious what people's thoughts are on what I should do; advice, etc...

Making some assumptions that the airline industry will have a solid bounce back by the time I'm eligible to get out in 3 years at 13.5 years of service. 

I'm really worried about my PIC time. I've done MQ-9s and staff. I'm on my 3rd MWS now and restarting as a copilot. I have 100 AC hours from my first MWS but I feel like I'm unlikely to finish the tour where I'm at adding more anymore than 100 to that. A lot of the career websites for airlines say that 500 PIC hours in a multi engine turbine is preferred but I'm not seeing myself coming close. Especially since getting PIC time as an AC is difficult since the minute you throw an instructor on board for training you lose the a code. Supposing a hiring environment in 3 years similar to the one last year what would you do? Apply anyway? Or should I start looking into other things? Staying in the AF is not an option for me. Nor is working for the federal government in any capacity.

I value free time more than money but need to make at least as much as I'm making in the AF to sustain QOL. Just curious what other oppurtunity people might see in this situation from their angle.

 

Edited June 10, 2020 by FLEA