The new airline thread

[nsplayr]

https://www.washingtonpost.com/local/trafficandcommuting/american-airlines-to-cut-service-to-15-cities-once-terms-on-billions-in-pandemic-aid-expire/2020/08/20/8701d21a-e2f2-11ea-8dd2-d07812bf00f7_story.html
 

AA cutting service to 15 cities starting in October, including lovely Hell Rio, TX. I feel bad for all the poor bastards out in Laughlin who now can’t even escape easily.

[HuggyU2]

1 hour ago, nsplayr said:

 I feel bad for all the poor bastards out in Laughlin who now can’t even escape easily.

Don't feel bad at all.  

I spent 4 years at DLF with no airline service.  

Back then, we drove these things called "cars" to where we wanted to go.  Everyone crying about no airline service needs to give it a try.  Get a fast "car" and go.  With your buds.  

You can be at SAT airport in about 2 hours.  No different than flying out of DLF.  And a lot more convenient.  

BTW... front gate of DLF to front gate of Randolph in 2+12.  On a Friday.  Going through the city at rush hour.  (According to a friend... not that I approve of such behavior from 22 year old student pilots.)  That was when the Auger Inn was "a thing".  

Oh... and when you see a Border Patrol airplane at 50' AGL flying east-bound, down the shoulder of Hwy 90, and they pass you... and then YOU decide to pass THEM... it's pretty fun.  

I had a blast in DLF.  There's no reason you can't.  Even if you're from "up north" and used to having 1,000,000 people in a square mile of city.  Give it the college try.  

 

Edited August 21, 2020 by HuggyU2

[Inertia17]

4 hours ago, HuggyU2 said:

BTW... front gate of DLF to front gate of Randolph in 2+12.  On a Friday.  Going through the city at rush hour.  (According to a friend... not that I approve of such behavior from 22 year old student pilots.)  That was when the Auger Inn was "a thing".

 

Front gate is more of a back gate now, love those remote loopholes.

[Hacker]

Had three friends get FedEx interview invitations this week, and one get a job offer at UPS.

The dudes who got Purple invites:

- One current active duty pointy-nose TPS grad O-4 with a separation date on file this fall.

- One former pointy-nose driver, now reserve SUPT IP O-3.

- One former AD/reserve MC-12 and C-17 O-4, now a couple years into a Legacy (and vulnerable to being furloughed) who didn't previously have a FX app in.

The UPS guy is a former pointy-nose DO who is freshly-separated.

[Prozac]

15 hours ago, HuggyU2 said:

Don't feel bad at all.  

I spent 4 years at DLF with no airline service.  

Back then, we drove these things called "cars" to where we wanted to go.  Everyone crying about no airline service needs to give it a try.  Get a fast "car" and go.  With your buds.  

You can be at SAT airport in about 2 hours.  No different than flying out of DLF.  And a lot more convenient.  

BTW... front gate of DLF to front gate of Randolph in 2+12.  On a Friday.  Going through the city at rush hour.  (According to a friend... not that I approve of such behavior from 22 year old student pilots.)  That was when the Auger Inn was "a thing".  

Oh... and when you see a Border Patrol airplane at 50' AGL flying east-bound, down the shoulder of Hwy 90, and they pass you... and then YOU decide to pass THEM... it's pretty fun.  

I had a blast in DLF.  There's no reason you can't.  Even if you're from "up north" and used to having 1,000,000 people in a square mile of city.  Give it the college try.  

 

Just watch out for “Bracketville Bob”. If I remember right the speed limit went from 55 to something like 25 miles outside of town. Bob would pull you over for doing 26 and he just loved UPT students coming through on the weekends on the way to San Anton’. Damn that was a long time ago. Thanks for reminding me that I’m old Huggy. 

[nsplayr]

1 hour ago, Prozac said:

Just watch out for “Bracketville Bob”.

Sounds like Parmer County, TX near Clovistan. Both my wife and I managed to get tickets there. Highway speed limit drops from 80 to maybe 55 way outside whatever little collection of 3 buildings passes for a town there. I swear 95% of the town’s budget must come from speeding tickets from CVS personnel. F that place. 

[PAWS]

19 hours ago, nsplayr said:

Sounds like Parmer County, TX near Clovistan. Both my wife and I managed to get tickets there. Highway speed limit drops from 80 to maybe 55 way outside whatever little collection of 3 buildings passes for a town there. I swear 95% of the town’s budget must come from speeding tickets from CVS personnel. F that place. 

They have those little two-shack townships with surprise drastic speed changes on both sides of that gem of a town.  I was trailering my motorcycle headed east through Taiban and definitely saw some blue lights flash brightly.  Even though I slowed, they didn't pursue, despite being well over any "You're new here, let this be a warning" speed...

It must have been something about my motorcycle being roughly 5 times the value of the car towing it (and clearly apparent to the uninformed observer), that caused the fuzz to question whether his radar gun was working!

[hindsight2020]

On 8/21/2020 at 12:52 AM, HuggyU2 said:

Don't feel bad at all.  

I spent 4 years at DLF with no airline service.  

Back then, we drove these things called "cars" to where we wanted to go.  Everyone crying about no airline service needs to give it a try.  Get a fast "car" and go.  With your buds.  

You can be at SAT airport in about 2 hours.  No different than flying out of DLF.  And a lot more convenient.  

BTW... front gate of DLF to front gate of Randolph in 2+12.  On a Friday.  Going through the city at rush hour.  (According to a friend... not that I approve of such behavior from 22 year old student pilots.)  That was when the Auger Inn was "a thing".  

Oh... and when you see a Border Patrol airplane at 50' AGL flying east-bound, down the shoulder of Hwy 90, and they pass you... and then YOU decide to pass THEM... it's pretty fun.  

I had a blast in DLF.  There's no reason you can't.  Even if you're from "up north" and used to having 1,000,000 people in a square mile of city.  Give it the college try.  

 

 

The drive times are a little longer now, but in the ballpark. I don't wish deathway 90 on anyone, I did lose squadronmates to that road during my tenure.

I went the other way, and got an airplane (owned two of them during my tenure, since had to trade up when the kid came along and 160hp wasn't gonna cut it anymore). My family wouldn't have happened if it weren't for the spam cans. Places like DLF are perfect for that kind of mission. Some of the more memorable trips of that chapter of our lives were in the ol' spam cans. It truly became a pressure relief valve, and travel to my wife's family back in the KTIK area was a breeze vice driving. My avatar pic is of the second plane right there at the ramp at Pico circa 2013, which I still own.

Regarding airline service, it went in cycles, due to the non-profitable nature of the city pair. Colgan had the contract with UA during the first half of my tenure there. Then the city lost service. As the pay and travel guy at my sq, I dealt with that fallout a lot. They regained service back a year or so before I finally got my parole from the place. AA feeder carrier. And now lost again as noted above. Doesn't surprise me in this environment. 

The one thing we legitimately miss? No traffic. But that's more of a pre-retirement lifestyle complaint. One of the appeals of airline de facto part time work, is the flexibility to live where you want. I think we're gonna try for smaller towns within driving distance to healthcare and urban conveniences when I get done with uncle sugar, since the wife is younger than me by a good clip and expects to remain in the workforce well after my second retirement. GA flying in retirement is a must (I didn't undergo all this indentured service to end up playing canasta in my off time), and since the finances don't quite justify airpark living, proximity to an airport with hangars will continue to be a driver. Good bad or indifferent, exurban living is more compatible with airplane ownership than metro core living, due to storage shortages and price pressures making it relatively unaffordable. We're not quite willing to retire to a place like DLF over it, but I'm, sure we'll find a middle ground location when we get to that bridge. 

 

[AZwildcat]

On 8/21/2020 at 11:18 AM, Hacker said:

Had three friends get FedEx interview invitations this week, and one get a job offer at UPS.

The dudes who got Purple invites:

- One current active duty pointy-nose TPS grad O-4 with a separation date on file this fall.

- One former pointy-nose driver, now reserve SUPT IP O-3.

- One former AD/reserve MC-12 and C-17 O-4, now a couple years into a Legacy (and vulnerable to being furloughed) who didn't previously have a FX app in.

The UPS guy is a former pointy-nose DO who is freshly-separated.

Did the guys with FDX invites all have an internal rec?

[Hacker]

1 hour ago, AZwildcat said:

Did the guys with FDX invites all have an internal rec?

Only one of the three that I know of.

The Personal Endorsement continues to be important, but the same things that have always made a strong application apparently continue to be too.

[AirGuardianC141747]

Definitely a buyers markets out there. The swing back into the cargo court specifically is repeated yet once again, reminiscent of post 9/11. Time will heal and the impacts will shape this industry quite a bit, but for now many will weather the storm. No pilot shortage at this point, but timing is everything - nothing new.
 

A Fellow retiree, a great friend of mine has been at United since 98’. Was a 777 FO for awhile, then a 787 FO international flyer based on a great lifestyle earned after 2 decades plus. Now being displaced and back to the guppy. Wanted the Airbus, but the workload it would have caused him was too much in the NE, so hanging his hat on 73 FO. Geeez, not fun but I know- he has a job. He never thought 2 steps forward 10 steps back.

Edited August 26, 2020 by AirGuardianC141747

[AirGuardianC141747]

What I posted on APC (FedEx Applicants) regarding choices made, which airline is the best, the turmoil of it all and why most stay...

Just telling them never give up, keep at it.(I am not purple)

Constant leap-frogging on which destination airline is the best, but overall they have their merits and definitely issues no doubt. Amazing how the pendulum swings, how cyclic our industry is, unfathomable at times. The ups and downs of it all and yet we continue to chug along. Couldn’t recommend this profession to anyone a decade ago, but these past few years were looking up with that pilot shortage looming until recently. Understandably we hang in there - either too invested at this point or your projected entry in about 2-3 years perhaps will pay dividends based on timing as usual and nothing more. One thing is undeniable, if you have some sort of passion remaining it makes it a helluva a lot easier. The struggle is real, payoffs are tangible but in the end we do the best we can to have our needs met. Long live the relentless airline pilot; whether it came easy for you or the struggle was/is real you are all warriors in some form or fashion or you wouldn’t be here.

[amcflyboy]

I retired from the Guard last year, and haven't been on here in a while.  I also didn't really scan through all of the posts, but Jetblue won't be furloughing until at least May 2021. If we don't have a vaccine for a virus that has a 99.96% survivability rate, then we're doomed.  Talking to a Check Airman recently, JB plans on hiring again in the late fall, which for the life of me, seems like aiming for Pluto!  Either way, we had sent guys home mid training back in April, and just started recalling them back to finish training.

[AirGuardianC141747]

That’s good news! Way to go JB. Cargo side maintains their pull of folks so that’s good. Talked to a mil guy (new friend) retiring in a couple of months who wasn’t getting any traction with our folks despite waiting patiently for a airframe/class date after being hired in July - told him to inquire again since everything is crazy right now. He just got his class date and airframe of choice 2 days ago. Good for him and it lines up with his retirement. Sometimes it all works out for the better.

[SocialD]

Cargo vs Pax aside, this is a great example of timing is everything.  I'll never push any of the young guys in the squadron toward the airlines/cargo jobs, as it's not for everyone and certainly has it's ups/downs.  That said, I'll do my best to give them the most sound advice I can and answer questions on how much I like/dislike the career...and I really do love my job.  I feel the most important piece of advice I give is that if you think you'll ever want to jump to the airlines/cargo, then the earlier you make that decision, the better.  Stop fucking opining at a temporary pay cut or whatifing everything.  If you don't like it you can always quit, but you can never go back and get a better seniority number.  I had a few squadron mates who knew they wanted to do it, but took forever to pull the trigger or kicked the can because they "didn't have time" to fill out the application.  For one, the difference is likely keeping my WB FO gig in base vs commuting to NB FO reserve in NYC and only missing furlough by 10 pilots.  Even if I don't keep my WB FO gig, I'll be in the top 15% of my seat (read picking my schedules/vacation/days off) vs being in the bottom 10% or commuting.  Timing is everything, and of course, better lucky than good.  Obviously this assumes you're not near an AGR retirement as that changes the dynamic a bit.  

 

As far as the cargo vs pax, I'm glad my cargo brethren haven't been negative impacted by this situation.  I'd happily be at FDX/UPS if they had called first, but I ended up at DAL.  Truth is though, we really have no idea where any of these companies will end up and/or what threats lie ahead for each industry...we all have our boogeymen out there.  I'll still recommend to go with the first one that calls, THEN if one calls that allows you to live in base, you have a decision to make.  Obviously right now that decision is easy, but the pax carriers will come back.  Very few things will increase your QOL like living in base at your job...as has been said on here numerous times, it's like having a completely different job.  I understand that it's not always a realistic option (keep momma happy), but it's a decision that shouldn't be taken lightly.  If you absolutely must live in Hays, KS, then ya, cargo is probably a better choice for their better options for deviate dh.  Just realize that anything can change with the next contract or next shift in business plans.  Either way, in the long run, you really can't go wrong...hopefully lol.  Best of luck to us all. 

 

Edited August 31, 2020 by SocialD
Thanks torqued

[Hacker]

Y'know, cargo airlines are "airlines", too.

You don't have to say "airlines/cargo" because the first term covers the second.

[SocialD]

Just now, Hacker said:

Y'know, cargo airlines are "airlines", too.

You don't have to say "airlines/cargo" because the first term covers the second.

 

I know that, but many do not.  

[nunya]

5 minutes ago, Hacker said:

Y'know, cargo airlines are "airlines", too.

You don't have to say "airlines/cargo" because the first term covers the second.

Just be glad he didn't say air lines. 

[gearhog]

You know, you said "In the long wrong" when the correct phrase is "In the long run." Surprised no one pointed that out to you yet.

[JimNtexas]

I guess flying rubber dogshit out of Hong Kong isn't such a bad deal after all.

[SocialD]

19 minutes ago, torqued said:

You know, you said "In the long wrong" when the correct phrase is "In the long run." Surprised no one pointed that out to you yet.

 

They've just given up on pointing out all my autocorrect/grammatical errors.  

[pawnman]

2 hours ago, JimNtexas said:

I guess flying rubber dogshit out of Hong Kong isn't such a bad deal after all.

At least, until the Chinese REALLY seize the city.

[Prozac]

6 hours ago, SocialD said:

 

As far as the cargo vs pax, I'm glad my cargo brethren haven't been negative impacted by this situation.  I'd happily be at FDX/UPS if they had called first, but I ended up at DAL.  Truth is though, we really have no idea where any of these companies will end up and/or what threats lie ahead for each industry...we all have our boogeymen out there.  I'll still recommend to go with the first one that calls, THEN if one calls that allows you to live in base, you have a decision to make.  Obviously right now that decision is easy, but the pax carriers will come back.  Very few things will increase your QOL like living in base at your job...as has been said on here numerous times, it's like having a completely different job.  I understand that it's not always a realistic option (keep momma happy), but it's a decision that shouldn't be taken lightly.  If you absolutely must live in Hays, KS, then ya, cargo is probably a better choice for their better options for deviate dh.  Just realize that anything can change with the next contract or next shift in business plans.  Either way, in the long run, you really can't go wrong...hopefully lol.  Best of luck to us all. 

 

This. When I got hired I happened to have interviews with two carriers at roughly the same time. One pax and one cargo. I chose to go to the cargo operator in part due to lower susceptibility to economic downturns. But if the pax carrier had called a month ahead of the other, I would’ve ended up there and never looked back. Seniority is EVERYTHING at the airlines and even one number can make the difference between a long and prosperous career and misery. The advice that was given to me was: Apply to all of the operators you think you might be happy working for and dance with the first girl that says yes. That’ll always be good advice. It’s a crazy, volatile industry. For some of us, it’s the only thing we could ever imagine doing and worth the potential pain. I wish the best for everyone involved in it and hope the recovery happens soon and puts us all in a stronger position than before. Hang in there guys. Things WILL get better. 

[AirGuardianC141747]

SocialD and Prozac are sooooo right and said it best = SENIORITY is everything. Everything trickles down from there. Bypassed Captain for several years now, but I eventually will bite. Want the Clams, don’t need the clams as lifestyle is everything at this stage. Everyone is different and will choose a different path accordingly. Several Captains have given me crap within 10 mins of meeting downstairs, but all I say is “Have you ever been #1 anywhere???” Granted, #1 at my base specifically, not most of the others. I would have been 5 from the BOTTOM as a Captain same base with absolutely no control. Most Captains appreciate and understand my position, especially having someone sleep opposite rest periods as I have been dragging around the world with our non-standard operation for quite awhile now. OK, I digressed a bit here.

Point is: My Base just closed TODAY! Although having been forewarned a couple of months ago, it was astonishing after about 2 decades of solid contract work when this first started. It was nice driving to work and then back home after a long trip, but these are the up and downs of this business. Boom, lost #1 so do I bid for Captain now - not likely as I am still within the top 3 of a few of our bases. Commuting does blow, but not like others as we are ticketed/put to bed but now I could potentially lose 12-24 hours if not being able to hold a commute Day 1 line. Probably OK though, Seniority is Everything!!!
 

ALL airlines have their ups and downs. Things will recover in due time, perhaps shaped a bit differently but the world is still turning. Flying rubber dog poop out of HKG has been advantageous no doubt. I am worried for a few of my friends based in HKG with Team Purple now. Have tried contacting them and nothing heard for just over a month now. Big Red moved in and things are upside down it seems. Managed to avoid it for awhile. Threats are beyond our basic imagination it seems. Stay frosty.

 

Edited September 1, 2020 by AirGuardianC141747

[Lord Ratner]

On 8/31/2020 at 9:59 AM, SocialD said:

I understand that it's not always a realistic option (keep momma happy), but it's a decision that shouldn't be taken lightly.  If you absolutely must live in Hays, KS, then ya, cargo is probably a better choice for their better options for deviate dh.   

 

I've had to explain to a few wives that they weren't choosing between living close to their family and not living close. They were choosing between whether their kids got to see dad or the grandparents more.

Obviously a simplification, but most do not realize that it's *a lot* more than just the hubby having to leave earlier in the morning to catch their commuter flight.