The new airline thread

[Bergman]

On 5/23/2021 at 9:45 AM, Lord Ratner said:

It's true, but it was an issue with the A350 training capacity that allowed a few (I think 3?) Captains to make a killing. Once they finally fixed the glitch, their incomes returned to "normal."

Not that this is anything worth arguing over, so don’t take this that way please, but you’ve actually talked to pilots that no-shit topped $1M?

$1M - 16% 401k - 16% PS = $743,000

That’s $62,000/mo average, or about 175 hours of pay at $353/hr (A350 captain).

I know the 350 rollout was a fiasco, but averaging that many hours a month would be very difficult.  Kudos to them if they did it, and please teach me how!

 

Active duty guys take note...we are actually discussing whether a pilot made $1M to fly the newest airplane in the fleet, maybe 12-15 days a month.  YMMV.  Choose wisely.

Edited May 25, 2021 by Bergman

[Lord Ratner]

7 minutes ago, Bergman said:

Not that this is anything worth arguing over, so don’t take this that way please, but you’ve actually talked to pilots that no-shit topped $1M?

$1M - 16% 401k - 16% PS = $743,000

That’s $62,000/mo average, or about 175 hours of pay at $353/hr (A350 captain).

I know the 350 rollout was a fiasco, but averaging that many hours a month would be very difficult.  Kudos to them if they did it, and please teach me how!

 

Active duty guys take note...we are actually discussing whether a pilot made $1M to fly the newest airplane in the fleet, maybe 12-15 days a month.  YMMV.  Choose wisely.

Them specifically? No. People at Delta who know them? Yes.

 

Like I said, it was only a few guys qualified on a new plane with a totally FUBAR training process. So every month they started by having their entire schedules bought back by the company for training. At Delta you can double dip, so if you have your schedule bought, then pick up a bunch of green slip trips (200%) to replace it, that's 300% of a normal schedule. At the highest pay rate. 

 

At AA there's always a debate over getting contractual provisions that some feel the company would never use. For example, I'd love to see a 300% emergency premium option. The company (especially AA) would *hate* using that. But cancel a full flight instead? No way. It's better to have things in the contract that are highly unlikely to be needed. They are cheap to negotiate for, and chances are you won't see them used. But if they are...

[Bergman]

15 hours ago, Lord Ratner said:

Them specifically? No. People at Delta who know them? Yes.

 

Like I said, it was only a few guys qualified on a new plane with a totally FUBAR training process. So every month they started by having their entire schedules bought back by the company for training. At Delta you can double dip, so if you have your schedule bought, then pick up a bunch of green slip trips (200%) to replace it, that's 300% of a normal schedule. At the highest pay rate. 

I suppose it’s possible with OE buys and GSWC, but pulling that off for an entire year would be difficult.  I’ll keep my eyes out for these unicorns once I’m reinstated.

[sputnik]

3 hours ago, Bergman said:

I suppose it’s possible with OE buys and GSWC, but pulling that off for an entire year would be difficult.  I’ll keep my eyes out for these unicorns once I’m reinstated.

I knew one that made just shy of 700k that year.  He showed me his profit sharing, which was impressive.

 

My personal assessment was  dudes were adding in profit sharing.  And excess cash from when they passed the 415 limit, which they all did.

 I do know guys were hitting 100k a month at the beginning of that year, how long they kept that up I've no idea.

 

Personally I doubt anyone made a million without including PS, and excess, if then.  But man, what a great conversation, eh?

 

[Gazmo]

I knew one that made just shy of 700k that year.  He showed me his profit sharing, which was impressive.
 
My personal assessment was  dudes were adding in profit sharing.  And excess cash from when they passed the 415 limit, which they all did.
 I do know guys were hitting 100k a month at the beginning of that year, how long they kept that up I've no idea.
 
Personally I doubt anyone made a million without including PS, and excess, if then.  But man, what a great conversation, eh?
 

Probably (and arguably) the highest hourly rate of 99% of other careers fields on the planet (when it comes to income per actual WORK performed)... I think.

[SocialD]

35 minutes ago, Gazmo said:

Probably (and arguably) the highest hourly rate of 99% of other careers fields on the planet (when it comes to income per actual WORK performed)... I think.

 

What happened in that category is a one in a career, fleeting opportunity.  The true winners are the professional reserve bidders.  Some of those dude put up some serious numbers, wrt longest time between putting on a uniform.  Let's call it pay per day putting on a uniform 😁.  Those are the guys you'll want to break out the notepad and take notes from!  Being able to sit SC from your house/boat/hangar is a beautiful thing! 

[Gazmo]

 
What happened in that category is a one in a career, fleeting opportunity.  The true winners are the professional reserve bidders.  Some of those dude put up some serious numbers, wrt longest time between putting on a uniform.  Let's call it pay per day putting on a uniform .  Those are the guys you'll want to break out the notepad and take notes from!  Being able to sit SC from your house/boat/hangar is a beautiful thing! 

Yep... did that on the 190 at AA the whole time I was on that jet. I miss that thing. My record was 23 days with being called. Been out for a while on mil leave, but we shall see if I have the same luck on the 320.

[Bergman]

6 hours ago, sputnik said:

I knew one that made just shy of 700k that year.  He showed me his profit sharing, which was impressive.

...

But man, what a great conversation, eh?

 

That’s some serious coin.  I honestly don’t know what I’d do with that much money.  Well, besides (more) hookers and blow.

Yes, what a great convo to have.  From “holy shit the entire industry could collapse” back to full flights, crowded airports and profit sharing.  Thank God.

[TreeA10]

I went 105 days between trips on the 787 although I had to do a Sim to update landing currency. 

[icohftb]

On 5/26/2021 at 4:01 AM, TreeA10 said:

I went 105 days between trips on the 787 although I had to do a Sim to update landing currency. 

Hows that possible? Bid reserve but senior enough to get called last?

[SocialD]

On 5/25/2021 at 9:16 PM, Gazmo said:

Yep... did that on the 190 at AA the whole time I was on that jet. I miss that thing. My record was 23 days with being called. Been out for a while on mil leave, but we shall see if I have the same luck on the 320.

 

While I tip my hat to your 23 days, especially on a NB, but I'm thinking more along the lines of trees post.  I've flown with guys who used to hit the 6-9 months mark.  One said he hit 14 months once, though I think all this was pre-117, which I think made it easier for some reason.

 

1 hour ago, icohftb said:

Hows that possible? Bid reserve but senior enough to get called last?

 

That and some strategery.  

Edited May 27, 2021 by SocialD

[HuggyU2]

9 hours ago, SocialD said:

That and some strategery.  

👆

Edited May 28, 2021 by HuggyU2

[TreeA10]

This was before my time but the most remarkable thing I've heard was from a dude that got lost in the system when the DC-10 went away. Somehow, the company just lost track of him and never scheduled him for training on a new jet so he went about a year and a half before they finally caught up with him. 

[hindsight2020]

9 hours ago, TreeA10 said:

This was before my time but the most remarkable thing I've heard was from a dude that got lost in the system when the DC-10 went away. Somehow, the company just lost track of him and never scheduled him for training on a new jet so he went about a year and a half before they finally caught up with him. 

Lol The Milton of the airline world.

[xaarman]

It happens. We’ve had guys float six months earning reserve guarantee. Either the CKA forgets to turn in their qualification paperwork, or they go non-current as a Reserve dude… so they never search legal for trips but also are never actively removed from a sequence. 
 

it’s a good deal when you get it. And unlike the military, you are not expected to do the companies job to notify them when they’ve screwed up. 

[MechGov]

And unlike the military, you are not expected to do the companies job to notify them when they’ve screwed up. 

That’s mind blowing. Quite the opposite of our UDM throwing a shit fit every time someone isn’t green for 1 of 69 deployment requirements

[SurelySerious]

That’s mind blowing. Quite the opposite of our UDM throwing a shit fit every time someone isn’t green for 1 of 69 deployment requirements

“You expire in four months, you’re not green enough.”

[SocialD]

12 hours ago, SurelySerious said:

“You expire in four months, you’re not green enough.”

 

Uh sir you're going to expire within 2 months of returning from deployment, you have reaccomplish that cbt

Oh really, show me the reg...

Well it's just "guidance."

Copy...not doing it.  

Edited May 30, 2021 by SocialD

[mcbush]

Kind of a different question, but any thoughts out there about moving from an AD flying position to a non-flying ARC job?

I'm an AD Maj looking to punch and go airlines next year, and I've always assumed I'd take a position flying my current MWS in the ARC. Lately though, I've been talking to a friend of mine who's probably 6-7 years further down the road than me. He took an IMA job and wears a uniform maybe 2-3 weeks a year, and focuses most of his energy on flying for Purple. He swears by that lifestyle, but I'm not sure I'm ready to give up military flying completely just yet. Copy that this is largely a YMMV situation, but I see two major benefits of continued flying in the ARC (an easy, comfortable transition away from AD and the ability to drop mil leave as required to take some of the sting out of airline juniority) and one major disadvantage compared to a traditional, one-weekend-a-month ARC position (the need to chase beans and currency resulting in a significant increase in total days worked). 

FWIW, I'm more concerned with QoL than maximizing total pay and I don't have any dreams of chasing an AD retirement in the ARC. I'd definitely like to continue serving, just wondering how much you ARC flyers have found the juice to be worth the squeeze. 

[FLEA]

16 minutes ago, mcbush said:

Kind of a different question, but any thoughts out there about moving from an AD flying position to a non-flying ARC job?

I'm an AD Maj looking to punch and go airlines next year, and I've always assumed I'd take a position flying my current MWS in the ARC. Lately though, I've been talking to a friend of mine who's probably 6-7 years further down the road than me. He took an IMA job and wears a uniform maybe 2-3 weeks a year, and focuses most of his energy on flying for Purple. He swears by that lifestyle, but I'm not sure I'm ready to give up military flying completely just yet. Copy that this is largely a YMMV situation, but I see two major benefits of continued flying in the ARC (an easy, comfortable transition away from AD and the ability to drop mil leave as required to take some of the sting out of airline juniority) and one major disadvantage compared to a traditional, one-weekend-a-month ARC position (the need to chase beans and currency resulting in a significant increase in total days worked). 

FWIW, I'm more concerned with QoL than maximizing total pay and I don't have any dreams of chasing an AD retirement in the ARC. I'd definitely like to continue serving, just wondering how much you ARC flyers have found the juice to be worth the squeeze. 

Guardsmen at units like Syracuse have an extraordinarily good deal IMO working as AOC augmentation. I know 1-2. I haven't done it myself so my info may be a little misguided but... They generally work part time, can live anywhere, and they drill by working as AOC augmentation during major exercises. These are usually two, 3-week exercises a year that are at Ramstein, Korea or Hickham. No currencies that I know of. You are just augmentation so the AOC can stand up 24 hour shifts when they do their accreditation exercises. 

[nunya]

4 hours ago, mcbush said:

Kind of a different question, but any thoughts out there about moving from an AD flying position to a non-flying ARC job?

You have to decide for yourself when you’re ready to hang up the wings.  Ask yourself on your next flights if you’d rather be somewhere else.  If the answer is still “Hell no, this is the best gig ever!” then keep flying in the ARC. One of these days your answer will be “I’d really rather be watching Junior’s game or I’d rather be home with Frau.”  Get an IMA job then.  

[Hugo Stiglitz]

7 hours ago, mcbush said:

Kind of a different question, but any thoughts out there about moving from an AD flying position to a non-flying ARC job?

 

You’re right, YMMV. I’m a 100% QOL guy and spent about a year flying in my MWS with the ANG when I started at my airline. Aside from the increased number of days for a flying gig, the unpredictability is what really did me in. I’d carve out a month that let me keep my sweet/high paying airline trips, drop the crap trips for mil leave, and still be home for birthdays and anniversaries, etc. Then as soon as I’d get to the unit and we’d cancel for Wx/Mx/tanker availability/mission slip/whatever then I’d have to scramble to decide whether I should annoy the unit by going non-current or else pick up extra days, which would of course mean giving up more airline pay or annoying the wife. Long story short, I took an ANG staff job 3 years ago and have a very predictable 2 days/month, 2 weeks/year schedule. Boring? Yes. Demanding? No way.

I miss the plane, miss some of the flying (but not all of it), mostly miss hanging out in an ops squadron. But definitely don’t miss the beans, the exercises, the extra days away from home, the checkrides, or any of the standard trappings of AF anti-aircrew culture. All told, I have no regrets and am spending way less time either at or thinking about work now, which was my ultimate goal. Obviously you’ll get a wide range of perspectives, and your own preferences will differ from every else’s, but that’s been this guy’s experience at least!

[Hacker]

On 5/28/2021 at 9:56 AM, TreeA10 said:

This was before my time but the most remarkable thing I've heard was from a dude that got lost in the system when the DC-10 went away. Somehow, the company just lost track of him and never scheduled him for training on a new jet so he went about a year and a half before they finally caught up with him. 

There are several stories of essentially this happening at FedEx, although at purple it had nothing to do with anyone getting lost, it stems from that system bids are (and historically have been) very infrequent compared to nearly every other 121 airline.  Sometimes it is every 9 months, or a year, or every 18 months.  This leads to quite long training cycles.

Thus, when a fleet is being eliminated (like what has happened with the 727 and DC-10), the training cycle for pilots does not flow perfectly with the rate at which airframes are being put into the boneyard.  Thus, after the last airframes were flown into Victorville, the last crew holdouts on those airframes had sometimes quite long waits for their training slots in their new aircraft.  There are stories of guys sitting for a year or more, getting monthly guarantee to sit at home and wait for their training class date.

[Guardian]

Do you still make any money while waiting for training or getting lost in the system?

[Buddy Spike]

Just now, Guardian said:

Do you still make any money while waiting for training or getting lost in the system?

Yup.  At AA it's min average line value.