The new airline thread

[nunya]

34 minutes ago, FLEA said:

Didn't Delta just hire their youngest pilot ever this year? He was like 23 years old? I think I saw it in the news. 

Maybe.  Youngest on the list this second is 24 and, amazingly, 24 is ho hum at this point.  Their career earning potential blows my mind.  With 40+ years to fly, their company 401k contributions alone will be something north of $6m in today's dollars.  If they max their IRAs, 401k, HSA, and maybe throw a few bucks at a 529 (not that hard to do, really), they can easily get to $12m by retirement. 

Edited January 10, 2022 by nunya

[FourFans]

On 1/10/2022 at 1:06 PM, Newb said:

This is more of a MPF-type question, but do I have to decide on a separation/terminal date and stick with it? In other words, if I don’t get a call from a major by my separation date, can I continue with AD on a day-to-day basis? Or do I set another separation date in the future? 

I separated in 2020...it was a great year to start a new AFRC job AND a new Airline job.  I was set for a May date, but got a 3 month delay to Aug.  It's possible, but definitely not enjoyable.  I didn't get my approval for the delay until 3 days before my May separation date...no stress there, right?  

In your shoes, I'd set a separation date 12 months out and try to stick with it.  Set your airline available date to that day.  The MOMENT you get terminal leave approved (which should be 90 days prior to get orders in hand, not a commander's verbal), re-update your available date on all airline apps.

The airlines understand that these mil dates can be fluid, so if you interview, get accepted, then have the date change because AFPC is...well...horrible at their job, you're probably ok for one 'I can start training on this date' change with the airline that hires you.

The airlines appear to do class scheduling about 3-6 months in advance at the most.  It feels like it's a lot less then that at some though.  The ACMI I used to work for gave some guys who were waiting for a class date 3 days of notice to get to class.  

The only DO NOT is to say you are available when you know you're not, and then plan on getting grace from the airline.  You say you're available, be available.

Edited January 12, 2022 by FourFans130

[HossHarris]

5 hours ago, Newb said:

I’m approaching my UPT ADSC and have relatively low hours (IP, 700 PIC/2000 total) compared to my MAF peers. When I browse through other airline forums, 1000 PIC/3000 total seems to be the delineator for the majors (pre-COVID). I understand many other factors are involved with the hiring process. However, with the renewed hiring surge, are there folks getting hired with less hours than before?

If I join a regional and separate from AD (no guard/reserve) will this increase my chances of progressing to a major, even if I no longer gain PIC hours? Or should I stay on AD until I hit 1000 PIC? What can I do now to round out my resume (masters, EP, SE, etc)? 

My spouse is AD is well (with kids), so a potential double commute to a reserve/guard base may stress the family too much. 

 

What have you been flying on AD?  Not all PIC is created equal 

[tac airlifter]

2 hours ago, HossHarris said:

What have you been flying on AD?  Not all PIC is created equal 

What do you mean?

[BashiChuni]

24 minutes ago, tac airlifter said:

What do you mean?

Your PIC is well above average and you should expect calls from every major you apply to in todays hiring environment. 

[Danger41]

This has nothing to do with airline hiring, but the USAF should be doing everything they can do get Tac Airlifter to stay. The dude should be running at least a MAJCOM. No shit heroic stuff as an individual and leader. Phenomenal American.

[BSRolex]

54 minutes ago, Newb said:

KC-135, B-1

Good to know I'm not the only one with the B-1 problem approaching my UPT ADSC

[BashiChuni]

5 minutes ago, Danger41 said:

This has nothing to do with airline hiring, but the USAF should be doing everything they can do get Tac Airlifter to stay. The dude should be running at least a MAJCOM. No shit heroic stuff as an individual and leader. Phenomenal American.

And tac airlifter should do everything he can to get a line number at a major airline asap…he can join a guard/reserve unit if he wants to retire 

Edited January 11, 2022 by BashiChuni

[ImNotARobot]

On 1/9/2022 at 4:12 PM, tac airlifter said:

Gents, I’m one year out from terminal/available date.  Been reading the various forums and building my SA.  Cargo seems like the best fit for my life circumstances, but appears  difficult to land.  Should I just blast applications to everyone ASAP or is it worth trying for my top picks first?  I don’t want to turn someone down while waiting for a call from a top pick, only to not be selected and have passed on my lower ranked choices.

Cargo more difficult to land? Maybe that's true, but it's a numbers game. Each of the Big 3+1 pax carriers have at least 10,000 pilots (correct me pax pilots). FedEx has 5500 pilots, and UPS has...3000? So there is exclusivity simply based on the size of the pilot group.

It also doesn't help that FDX/UPS have maybe the most esoteric and antiquated hiring processes. While the pax carriers have shortened their respective HR processes and lowered hiring requirements, the big 2 cargo outfits have remained stubbornly rooting in past practices. Only in the last couple weeks has FedEx changed to virtual day 1 testing, then in person interview for day 2. While 500 TPIC is the published requirement for FedEx (down from 1000 TPIC), Delta etc is hiring a few guys with 0 TPIC.

All those trends aside, don't undersell the value of your pedigree as a 20-year military pilot. As stated here, YOU are the target demo for all these HR departments. 20ish years of flying, upgrades, total hours of world-wide flying, etc. They already know the leadership piece is baked into normal military career progression.

I hate to repeat what's already been said...that's why most of the time I just STFU on here. But cast a wide net with apps. If you'd be genuinely happy to receive an interview invite from a company, then put that in your top tier. If you could survive at a company while waiting for your top tier, then there's your bottom tier.

You don't have a math problem to solve until you've been hired by two airlines. Until then, the decision is simple. You take the first job and grind it out. But it shouldn't be much of a grind if you CHOSE to put in an app. There are a few places that you probably already know are not compatible with your location/family/preferences.

All these airlines have pluses/minuses. There is not one clear winner for every pilot. My personal line in the sand is dealing with FAs/pax. I turned down a Delta interview after being hired at FedEx after years of maintaining 7 airlines apps. Guys in my military unit thought I was nuts...mostly pax airlines being represented there. Those guys aren't crazy for loving DAL/UAL/AAL/SWA either. Those are great jobs! Just didn't crack my top tier of Purple/Brown. The subjective trash/treasure concept applies here. Every pilot wants to beat their chest about why their personal decision to go with airline X is DEFINITELY the best job...and it's not totally BS, but a validation of their pick. Nobody says "I'm a below average pilot and a crap interviewer, and I'm settling for Airline Y".

You're going to end up somewhere awesome...just don't know where yet. And once your own eyeball sees how Airline X is run, you'll know if it's your final job or not.

Sorry for stream of consciousnesses. Best of luck Tac Airlifter and all pilots in this decision region. Once you break free of the welfare mentality of the military, you'll see a massive QoL increase. We're all rooting for you!

 

[HossHarris]

12 hours ago, tac airlifter said:

What do you mean?

I mean exactly what I said. 
700 hrs of TPIC is different if you’re flying a modern automated crewed aircraft, or DV airlift, or a fighter with zero autopilot, or teaching UPT, etc. 

[tac airlifter]

Great posts, thank you.  I’ll start churning out apps this summer.  

Appreciate the kind words Danger; I just tried to keep pace with the team.  

[tac airlifter]

30 minutes ago, HossHarris said:

I mean exactly what I said. 
700 hrs of TPIC is different if you’re flying a modern automated crewed aircraft, or DV airlift, or a fighter with zero autopilot, or teaching UPT, etc. 

That makes practical sense, I thought you were referencing some kind of formal categorization I wasn’t tracking.  Lots of dumb questions as I try to get smart talking civilian flying 🍺

Do airlines take mission sets into account when assessing TPIC numbers?

[ClearedHot]

31 minutes ago, HossHarris said:

I mean exactly what I said. 
700 hrs of TPIC is different if you’re flying a modern automated crewed aircraft, or DV airlift, or a fighter with zero autopilot, or teaching UPT, etc. 

Concur - Leading a crew of 13 across the ocean to employ in dynamic CAS fights inside 25 meters while dodging AAA, MANPADS and avoiding clueless chodes in the stack is WAY different than flying around as Blue 4 making "Twoop", "Bingo", "Leads on Fire" and I'll take the fat one" calls.

[HossHarris]

2 hours ago, ClearedHot said:

Concur - Leading a crew of 13 across the ocean to employ in dynamic CAS fights inside 25 meters while dodging AAA, MANPADS and avoiding clueless chodes in the stack is WAY different than flying around as Blue 4 making "Twoop", "Bingo", "Leads on Fire" and I'll take the fat one" calls.

You’ve clearly never had to get your own atis and it shows!

/s

[kaputt]

Anyone here currently at a Regional or have recent experience at one that would be willing to have a conversation through PM?

Have a bit of a unique (and personal) situation that I'm curious how the regionals might handle.

Thanks!

[nsplayr]

5 hours ago, kaputt said:

Have a bit of a unique (and personal) situation that I'm curious how the regionals might handle.

We taking bi-curious or what? 😅 I keed…sort of. I don’t think the FARs prohibit flying with a buttplug in, but just look out for turbies haha.

Good luck flying the friendly skies! I’m genuinely happy for all of y’all cashing airline checks and unironically livin’ the dream. Even as a never-gonna-be-an-airline-guy this thread is always a good read.

Edited January 12, 2022 by nsplayr

[kaputt]

2 hours ago, nsplayr said:

We taking bi-curious or what? 😅 I keed…sort of. I don’t think the FARs prohibit flying with a buttplug in, but just look out for turbies haha.

Good luck flying the friendly skies! I’m genuinely happy for all of y’all cashing airline checks and unironically livin’ the dream. Even as a never-gonna-be-an-airline-guy this thread is always a good read.

Not sure whether 🤨 or 😂 is the appropriate response to this.

It not THAT personal, haha. If you're really curious you can dig through my post history for it. I've discussed it on this site before, just didn't feel like sidetracking the discussion in here since most of it is focused on major airline hiring. Just easier to handle via PM. 

To those that PM'd, thanks. I'll try and respond shortly. 

[FourFans]

16 hours ago, ImNotARobot said:

The subjective trash/treasure concept applies here. Every pilot wants to beat their chest about why their personal decision to go with airline X is DEFINITELY the best job...and it's not totally BS, but a validation of their pick.

Awesome post.

 

...but brown is better...

[SocialD]

What Robot said!  I've said it on here numerous times, but where I think you should go is more based on where you want to live as opposed to where I think is better.  DAL works great for me because I sit short call from my house, but if you live near Charlotte, that doesn't do you much good.  If you can live in base at any of them, I highly recommend going there.  Another piece of advice that will offer, get senior and stay senior, it might take a few years but it's truly like having a totally different job. Get the days off you want, the trips you want, the vacation you want, it's great.  This coming from a guy that previous spent most of is career super junior by jumping up to a WB as soon as I could and only left because I was displaced thanks to rona.

 

[Bode]

Great posts, thank you.  I’ll start churning out apps this summer.  
Appreciate the kind words Danger; I just tried to keep pace with the team.  

Hey man. Hit me up with any questions along the way. I know we have had a few conversations throughout the years. I’m flying for DAL now if you have questions.

On the general timeline, I have a few bros that have interviews scheduled 4-5 months before their availability date. Keep that in mind, it wouldn’t be a bad feeling to already have a CJO well before you retire or separate.


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[Hacker]

On 1/11/2022 at 7:18 AM, HossHarris said:

I mean exactly what I said. 
700 hrs of TPIC is different if you’re flying a modern automated crewed aircraft, or DV airlift, or a fighter with zero autopilot, or teaching UPT, etc. 

 

On 1/11/2022 at 7:52 AM, ClearedHot said:

Concur - Leading a crew of 13 across the ocean to employ in dynamic CAS fights inside 25 meters while dodging AAA, MANPADS and avoiding clueless chodes in the stack is WAY different than flying around as Blue 4 making "Twoop", "Bingo", "Leads on Fire" and I'll take the fat one" calls.

Yes, I know this is in jest, but all intra-airframe cock-measuring aside, and totally divorced from whatever we individually feel about the concept of "what type of hours", remember that it is the airline hiring departments that tell us this based on who they hire and with what experience.

For guys who have less than 1000 hours of MTPIC it is a relevant metric.

The good news is that today it is trending toward being less and less relevant, with the post-COVID hiring boom starting to spin up. All of the major airlines are lowering their qualifications for interviews, and essentially any USAF pilot who is nearing the end of their ADSC and has an average record (e.g. with normal aviation career progression and maybe a blemish or two) is going to likely get the call.

 

Regarding the "this or that" airline choice, I thought I'd throw in the wisdom of one of my mentors, a Desert Storm vet who is now a widebody Capt nearing retirement at a legacy airline. After I didn't get a job offer at the legacy airline I really thought I wanted to work for, and subsequently being hired where I am flying now, he said:

"Sometimes the airlines do a much better job of choosing us than we do them. They know their culture a lot better than you do, and even the one you might not have thought was a good fit for you knew you were a good fit for them."

So, back to the advice given many times in this thread: put in your apps everywhere, interview at every one that invites you, take the first job offer you get, and then when you have options to go somewhere better, do that until you're where you want to be.

Edited January 14, 2022 by Hacker

[tac airlifter]

2 hours ago, Hacker said:

So, back to the advice given many times in this thread: put in your apps everywhere, interview at every one that invites you, take the first job offer you get, and then when you have options to go somewhere better, do that until you're where you want to be.

Wilco. Unfortunately I’m a year out from being available, and do not have an ATP yet (although it’s scheduled).  Thanks for all the advice.

[disgruntledemployee]

FedEx wants LAIRCM on a few jets. https://www.politico.com/news/2022/01/14/fedex-anti-missile-lasers-cargo-planes-527119

Gotta get those packages delivered no matter what!!! 

[SurelySerious]

FedEx wants LAIRCM on a few jets. https://www.politico.com/news/2022/01/14/fedex-anti-missile-lasers-cargo-planes-527119
Gotta get those packages delivered no matter what!!! 

Is ALPA getting that ALR High pay LOA ready?

[Hacker]

2 hours ago, disgruntledemployee said:

FedEx wants LAIRCM on a few jets. https://www.politico.com/news/2022/01/14/fedex-anti-missile-lasers-cargo-planes-527119

Gotta get those packages delivered no matter what!!! 

FedEx supposedly holds the STC for these laser pod installations and is selling it to someone with an A321.