The new airline thread

[Springer]

On 2/1/2022 at 6:17 PM, Prozac said:

Of course for many, this can be mitigated by buying an RV-8 & getting your upside down fix in your spare time .... 

This^^^^^! 

I flew in the worst of times.  After 11 yrs AD, hired at 35, retired at 59 when pay was at its lowest.  Still the best decision I ever made even with commuting the entire time.  

It appears that many are making airline choses based on upgrade time.  It took me 13 years and it wasn't the end of the world especially now with FO's making in their 2nd year what I made on my last day as a CA at a major.

NERD

Edited February 9, 2022 by Springer

[StoleIt]

22 hours ago, BADFNZ said:

I work at SWA, but I'm not a SWA cheerleader by any means.  We have our issues like anyone else, and I've really soured on this company in the last year.  But make sure you're comparing apples to apples.

Just curious what has soured you at SWA?

[Smokin]

13 hours ago, ClearedHot said:

The training issue is universal and global.  Several overseas simulator and "school house" operations have been shutdown down by COVID.  It is going to take the system a while to rebuild capability.

United has a robust training capacity.  I don't have figures available, but in the 2018-2019 hiring wave they were training 4 indoc classes a month and were still renting out a fair amount of sim periods to other airlines.  And they built a bunch more sims in 2019.  There's been talk of 2500 new hires a year coming up and I think they could keep up.

[Bode]

Just curious what has soured you at SWA?

I second that question. Also, I heard SWA is dropping their hiring goal for 22 to 1000 from 1500. Any truth to thadd te?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Hugo Stiglitz]

8 minutes ago, Bode said:

I second that question. Also, I heard SWA is dropping their hiring goal for 22 to 1000 from 1500. Any truth to thadd te?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I can speak to the hiring projections. Previously they said 1,500 new hires but didn’t have any month by month breakdowns (beyond Feb) of how many butts in seats they intended to fill. Today the director of crew planning sent out the hiring numbers for the rest of the year: 1,372 total, broken down by month. Not sure that’s a reduction per se or or probably just a more fine-tuned projection than the 1,500 wag.
That said, training instructors are definitely the long pole in the tent. Unlike other airlines our line pilots don’t run sims, and without a flow from the training center to the right seat the only people they can find to be instructors are pretty much retirees or maybe those who can’t hold a medical. Undoubtedly some of the seats that could be going to new FOs are instead being occupied by new hire instructors to meet the training volume demand. 
WRT to general cynicism, can’t speak for BADFNZ, but can confirm folks are pretty burned out. The root cause is the company used the pandemic to add cities but was already short staffed due to (overly) generous early retirement and sabbatical programs, so the added flights came by reducing frequency between other city pairs. As soon as that happened all elasticity pretty much disappeared so minor Mx/Wx events turned into major meltdowns. Line pilots basically all became online reserves and JAs skyrocketed so there was basically no point bidding a schedule you were not going to end up flying. Add to all that the company’s transparent ploy to pressure Congress for additional CARES Act dollars by issuing warn letters to 1,221 of our junior pilots, and they darn near took a torch to the one tangible draw for pilots to come to SWA (the culture! we’ve never furloughed!)…lots of unhappy campers. 
Putting rose-colored glasses back on, based on the recent ALPA video coming from AA it’s clear the schedule shenanigans were being felt elsewhere, and in our case the added return of our guys from extended leave plus new hires and a new CEO cautiously bodes well for returning to almost-normal. My Feb schedule hasn’t been jacked with FWIW!

[WheelsOff]

On 2/6/2022 at 11:01 PM, M2 said:

Why do you think?  At one point there were five large military bases (two of which, Kelly and Brooks AFBs, have since closed) and two large military reservations (Camp Bullis and Camp Stanley) in the San Antonio area, and given the great weather, quality of life, low cost of living and a myriad of things to do close by it's not tough to figure out why it's become a mecca for not only retirees but also transplants from all over the country.

Lol, that was literally the point I was making (specifically through the lens of the abundance of healthcare options that are Tricare-friendly)!

[bcuziknow]

Why does every time I post something not get posted?
 

“Your content will need to be approved by a moderator”

[SocialD]

2 hours ago, WheelsOff said:

Lol, that was literally the point I was making (specifically through the lens of the abundance of healthcare options that are Tricare-friendly)!

 

After my last two interactions on an AD base, I'm not sure why anyone would want to live close enough that might require its' use.  Such frustrating and painful experiences!  On my last visit, it was a 2 month wait for an appointment (non-medical) and I wasn't even helped until 3 hours after my originally scheduled time.  Guard base appreciation time!  

[ClearedHot]

13 hours ago, Smokin said:

United has a robust training capacity.  I don't have figures available, but in the 2018-2019 hiring wave they were training 4 indoc classes a month and were still renting out a fair amount of sim periods to other airlines.  And they built a bunch more sims in 2019.  There's been talk of 2500 new hires a year coming up and I think they could keep up.

That was pre-pandemic.  Knowing the hiring wave was coming numerous schools and training facilities opened up and ordered simulators.  Asia in particular was surging to meet the demand.  Unfortunately policies in several countries, most notably Australia caused many of those school to shutdown.  As hiring ramps back up I think the training backbone will be extremely strained.  Hopefully the U.S. airlines are factoring this into their calculus.

[nunya]

[Waingro]

4 hours ago, ClearedHot said:

That was pre-pandemic.  Knowing the hiring wave was coming numerous schools and training facilities opened up and ordered simulators.  Asia in particular was surging to meet the demand.  Unfortunately policies in several countries, most notably Australia caused many of those school to shutdown.  As hiring ramps back up I think the training backbone will be extremely strained.  Hopefully the U.S. airlines are factoring this into their calculus.

United has been hiring and training between 40 and 70 a week since May 2021. They've also been renting out sim time concurrently. 

While they postured well for the rebound; you are correct in that they are one of the few who did so.

[Butters]

On 2/3/2022 at 5:05 PM, nunya said:

I'm sorry you had to deal with that and I'm glad you recovered.  Point of order, though... disability insurance at major airlines is very good (generally all your pay for a period, then ~ half of your pay until 65), so losing your medical isn't an immediate detour to poverty. 

Lots of guys happen to lose their medical at about age 63.  Those last 2 years until retirement living on insurance payouts are probably pretty tough.  

Be careful with this. not all airlines are the same. APC posted the Delta "Contract Comparison". Look at the Long-Term disability section. Some airlines, especially SWA, have serious limits that could leave you out on the street.

From the SWA section

Quote

1 month for each 2
months of service,
max. 60 months, or
to FAA mandatory
retirement age if SSD.
Limited to 12 months/
lifetime for mental
illness and substance
abuse.

If I had gone to work for SWA I would have been out of the street in 2 years from being diagnosed with cancer. All other are age 65, except maybe Delta, theirs is very confusing whether it's age 65 or 54 months maximum. Regardless TRICARE is nice to have as a backup.

 

Also, if you are going to get cancer, hope you get it before leaving AD. If not, prepare to hear the words "not service connected." Even if 4 others that were stationed in Kabul with you at the same time have the same cancer.

[HossHarris]

2 hours ago, Butters said:

Be careful with this. not all airlines are the same. APC posted the Delta "Contract Comparison". Look at the Long-Term disability section. Some airlines, especially SWA, have serious limits that could leave you out on the street.

From the SWA section

If I had gone to work for SWA I would have been out of the street in 2 years from being diagnosed with cancer. All other are age 65, except maybe Delta, theirs is very confusing whether it's age 65 or 54 months maximum. Regardless TRICARE is nice to have as a backup.

 

Also, if you are going to get cancer, hope you get it before leaving AD. If not, prepare to hear the words "not service connected." Even if 4 others that were stationed in Kabul with you at the same time have the same cancer.

Ours (delta) is simple. 
50% until age 65. 
(and they double the 401 contribution) 

 

there are add-on policies (DPMA, etc) that will bridge that gap (to get up to 100% pay) but generally only last 2 years max. 
 

 

[nunya]

3 hours ago, Butters said:

Be careful with this. not all airlines are the same. APC posted the Delta "Contract Comparison". Look at the Long-Term disability section. Some airlines, especially SWA, have serious limits that could leave you out on the street.

Ok, I figured "generally" would allow one exception among the big airlines.  I'll be clearer: DL, AA, UA, AS, JB, FDX, and UPS all have something approximating 50% til 65.  SWA also allows you to bank over a year of sick leave.

Edited February 11, 2022 by nunya

[HuggyU2]

Butters!  It is good to see you back!  I have not seen a post from you in a very long time. 

[Butters]

6 hours ago, HossHarris said:

Ours (delta) is simple. 
50% until age 65. 
(and they double the 401 contribution) 

 

there are add-on policies (DPMA, etc) that will bridge that gap (to get up to 100% pay) but generally only last 2 years max. 
 

 

The only one that is simple is Alaska. "50% until age 65. "

Delta is not that simple: 

FAA mandatory
retirement age, limited
to 30 months for mental
illness or substance
abuse, 54 months lifetime

Alaska is 65 regardless.

Delta is 65... or 67 or 70 if they change it, and 30 months per and 54 Months lifetime for mental
illness or substance abuse. DPMA is 365 days per event 730 day lifetime limit

Not that simple. 

 

All airlines seem to limit disability for crazy people and alcoholics, except Alaska.

[Butters]

2 hours ago, HuggyU2 said:

Butters!  It is good to see you back!  I have not seen a post from you in a very long time. 

Long story

[Butters]

6 hours ago, nunya said:

Ok, I figured "generally" would allow one exception among the big airlines.  I'll be clearer: DL, AA, UA, AS, JB, FDX, and UPS all have something approximating 50% til 65.  SWA also allows you to bank over a year of sick leave.

Not quite, The limits are a little more than an approximation. Lots of Maximum benefits and restrictions.

AA: 60% FAA mandatory retirement age, Maximum $8K a month, limited to 24 months for mental/ nervous and/or chemical dependency (suspended during furlough)

DL: 50% FAA mandatory retirement age, limited to 30 months for mental illness or substance abuse, 54 months lifetime

UA:  50% (non-taxable) Maximum of $8,000/mth (after offsets) $11,000/mth (after offsets beginning October 2021 bid
period) Mandatory retirement age, limited to 12 months/lifetime for alcohol or substance abuse (cease upon furlough or termination

AS: 50% Age 65

JB: JetBlue 55%, plus optional 5% buy-up, Maximum $15,000/month TA- $13,500/ month FAA mandated retirement age, 24 months due to mental illness

Fed Ex: FedEx 60%, first 24 months, 50% thereafter, Maximum Earnings used to calculate benefit limited to 401(a)
(17) limit ($275K in 2018) Age 65. limited to 18 months for disabilities related to chemical dependency, and 60 months/occurrence for mental illness.

 

 

Like I said, something you want to consider.

[fox two]

Newbie question: I put my apps in and haven't heard anything... my earliest hire date is still many months away so I'm not sweating it, but I'm wondering if having a class 1 medical is a requirement for an interview? I don't have one yet, as I finish AD, but figured it's something I could get quickly if I'm selected.

 

I'm looking at the comparison page of the job targeting page in airlineapps.com and also seeing FCC License required, is that actually needed as well? https://www.fcc.gov/commercial-radio-operator-license-program says you need one unless your aircraft is VHF and domestic only and obviously military flying is neither of those, so what gives? Do I have this equivalent already? Maybe a dumb question but I've literally never heard of this

[HuggyU2]

24 minutes ago, fox two said:

Newbie question: ....

Words...

LOL wut?  
Is there no one in your squadron that you know that is getting out or has gotten out?  Are any of them your friends? If so, you should speak to them. 

Edited February 15, 2022 by HuggyU2

[BashiChuni]

you need both so get them. and listen to huggy

[FLEA]

Both are easy if you're CONUS. The class 1 takes less than a half hour and is not nearly as intensive as a military class 1. The radio operator permit is largely an excuse for the US govt to collect fees. You literally just fill out a form online and click pay. 

[SocialD]

7 hours ago, fox two said:

Newbie question: I put my apps in and haven't heard anything... my earliest hire date is still many months away so I'm not sweating it, but I'm wondering if having a class 1 medical is a requirement for an interview? I don't have one yet, as I finish AD, but figured it's something I could get quickly if I'm selected.

 

I'm looking at the comparison page of the job targeting page in airlineapps.com and also seeing FCC License required, is that actually needed as well? https://www.fcc.gov/commercial-radio-operator-license-program says you need one unless your aircraft is VHF and domestic only and obviously military flying is neither of those, so what gives? Do I have this equivalent already? Maybe a dumb question but I've literally never heard of this

 

 

Ya man, you're not getting called without them.  Get them done ASAP, I have a squadron mate that's been at a legacy for a few years, he's starting indoc at another airline next week and was called by both UPS and FDX within the last month.  If you're ending a typical 10 yr AD stint, you're email should be blowing up.  

 

 

3 hours ago, FLEA said:

The radio operator permit is largely an excuse for the US govt to collect fees. You literally just fill out a form online and click pay. 

 

Yup, it's simply a tax.  They used to be free, then somewhere around 2005, they started charging for the most worthless piece of paper I carry.  

[Butters]

Seriously, you have gotten this far and not talked to a single pilot that is getting out? Are you in a non-flying assignment?

[Prozac]

13 hours ago, fox two said:

Newbie question: I put my apps in and haven't heard anything... my earliest hire date is still many months away so I'm not sweating it, but I'm wondering if having a class 1 medical is a requirement for an interview? I don't have one yet, as I finish AD, but figured it's something I could get quickly if I'm selected.

 

I'm looking at the comparison page of the job targeting page in airlineapps.com and also seeing FCC License required, is that actually needed as well? https://www.fcc.gov/commercial-radio-operator-license-program says you need one unless your aircraft is VHF and domestic only and obviously military flying is neither of those, so what gives? Do I have this equivalent already? Maybe a dumb question but I've literally never heard of this

Everybody starts somewhere. Don’t worry too much about getting a bit of ridicule here for asking questions. Biggest piece of advice I have is don’t take anything for granted. Make sure all your i’s are dotted and t’s crossed. If there is a requirement listed that you’ve never heard of, find out what it is. Your military experience likely does not give you any equivalency. FAA has requirements that the military doesn’t give much thought to, but are absolutely requirements in the civ world. Good luck. You picked a good time to complete your commitment.