The new airline thread

[Guardian]

GS and airline and retired?!? Tell us the secret sauce huggy!

[eindecker]

@Hugo Stiglitz @HuggyU2 I appreciate the input.  It helps to hear these perspectives. 
 

@TreeA10 Oh I’m with you, but you know…young kids, both sides of the family are nearby.  

[StoleIt]

10 hours ago, Lord Ratner said:

I spend a lot of time at my airline teaching people my method (maximum ratio of pay:hours flown). It's a process and it takes time, and in many cases by the time I'm done explaining it, they are so put off from the idea that they seem pathologically compelled to explain to me why my system isn't actually that good. It's a curious response, but a lot of these guys unknowingly weight any work that isn't sitting in the cockpit as many, many times more onerous than actually flying. So while I usually only fly between 30 to 50% of what a regular line pilot flies in a month, because I spend 10 to 15 hours per month (in 1-5 minute blocks) working the various trading platforms, they view that 15 hours as much worse than the additional 50 hours they spend flying. And usually I'm making somewhere between 15-40% more pay.

Note to self: Ask you to explain your method over dinner/beers when I'm off mil leave and back in Dallas.

[Hugo Stiglitz]

3 hours ago, HuggyU2 said:

 

I'm not sure I completely agree with Hugo, but his inputs are worth considering.

 

Wish I could get my wife to say this…

[AirGuardianC141747]

Pretty well sums it up how Lord Ratner categorized it for the majority:

1. Who offered you a job

2. Where can you live without commuting

3. What flying job fits your personality?
 

When you need a job you just go where you must and transition later to that destination career as you see fit, but there has never been a greater time to gain access to your airline of choice than now. Commuting is the biggest hassle for most and nothing beats living in domicile no matter what outfit, except for holding a base which is actually where you want to live or the surrounding area allows you to capture extra trips/pay within 90 min - 2hrs in many cases = Holy Grail of LIFESTYLE and Opportunity. Enjoying the “job” carries significant weight depending on your personality, but every normal hassle melts away when you do and it’s always easier as I sit here in Australia enjoying the beach and whatnot. Rainy seasonish but amazing.
 

*Labeling those who say boxes don’t b….! as “misanthropic” is first off all encompassing of the freight community. For a bunch of freight dawg unsocial misfits I would say we’re doing pretty well out there! 😆🤪

Edited May 12, 2022 by AirGuardianC141747

[AirGuardianC141747]

Even when I flew back commercial on UA 787 Business in Feb from FRA to ORD, I was included in a shenanigan. Passenger came out of the lav and passed out. Don’t know why I was paying attention (no service due to turbulence over the Atlantic) but I was able to catch him before his head was going to hit the floor after snapping my belt off. Yelled medical and lights came on with FA’s swarming in the aisle. Stood him up for a minute and he said he was OK. One step later he drops like a brick and I threw him in my seat this time. I sat in his seat for 2 hours after a Doc on board took care of him. His seat mate next to me was wondering when something might happen as he pounded a ton of champagne earlier. FA’s said they knew him which was curious. When asked they mentioned he was one of theirs! Turns out he was a UA 787 Capt on his way home… can’t make this stuff up. Guess the pax guys know how to party but no liver to hang.🤪 I don’t drink anymore, but when I do it’s for free - especially on Emirates/Qatar as they have the best choices.

Edited May 12, 2022 by AirGuardianC141747

[di1630]

Anyone hear they are thinking of raising airline retirement age to 67/68?

[mp5g]

Our union stated that is a real thing that people are asking about on the hill right now. 

[kaputt]

Will raising the age limit really help? It seems to me the big shortage right now is regional Captains. 

[SurelySerious]

Will raising the age limit really help? It seems to me the big shortage right now is regional Captains. 

Won’t really help the overall staffing issue, but it will open up more senile captains with declining skills to make mistakes, so we have that going for us. Also, ICAO is still 65 soooooo just sticking these old farts on domestic then?

[SocialD]

6 hours ago, di1630 said:

Anyone hear they are thinking of raising airline retirement age to 67/68?

 

I wouldn't get to worried and/or excited just yet.  Even with age 65, our average pilot still leaves at 62.5.  How many pilots would even make to age 67?  I'm guessing if this makes it through, the realized impact would be miniscule.  On the flip side, if it does pass, I'll take 2 more years of our disability. 🤣

 

3 hours ago, SurelySerious said:

Won’t really help the overall staffing issue, but it will open up more senile captains with declining skills to make mistakes, so we have that going for us. Also, ICAO is still 65 soooooo just sticking these old farts on domestic then?

 

My understanding is that ICAO can only recommend and not the final authority.  So even if they raised the age, each country would have to raise it themselves.  I'd love to see that 350 Captain come on down and fly my CHA turn (25 min flights) followed by 2 or 3 more legs.  I'm sure they did that at one time in their career, but im guessing it doesn't sound to appetizing at 66 years old and years of the international good life.  

[Prozac]

I saw some of the alleged proposed rule stating that over 65 would be subject to additional medical screening above the current class 1 requirements and possibly even additional checkride requirements. I don’t see too many passing all the new requirements or even willing to subject themselves to them. Especially now that most airlines are using sodomization—-I mean optimization scheduling software. No one wants to stick around any longer than they have to. 

[AirGuardianC141747]

Well, at least I most likely would be eligible to fly to Japan since they have already brought the age limit up thru 67 til their 68th birthday awhile back. I like the “extend my LTD a couple of more years!” 

Edited May 15, 2022 by AirGuardianC141747

[BFM this]

On 5/14/2022 at 4:54 AM, SocialD said:

I wouldn't get to worried and/or excited just yet.  Even with age 65, our average pilot still leaves at 62.5.  How many pilots would even make to age 67?  I'm guessing if this makes it through, the realized impact would be miniscule.  On the flip side, if it does pass, I'll take 2 more years of our disability. 🤣

I think this nugget from the Good Idea Fairy isn't going to hit reality intact.  Sure, there's going to be a few individuals with the healthspan to make it to 67.  They will likely be eclipsed by those who want to, but fall short, driving up LTD costs for starters.  Likewise, at least at my carrier, can't take the sick bank with you, so the older segment spends their last few years (if otherwise healthy), burning down their sick bank; again higher cost per productivity widget. 

It's going to be an exponential cost increase that in the end will squeeze only a few drops of productivity from the least productive segment of the pilot population.  

[BFM this]

On 5/14/2022 at 10:25 AM, Prozac said:

I saw some of the alleged proposed rule stating that over 65 would be subject to additional medical screening above the current class 1 requirements and possibly even additional checkride requirements. I don’t see too many passing all the new requirements or even willing to subject themselves to them. Especially now that most airlines are using sodomization—-I mean optimization scheduling software. No one wants to stick around any longer than they have to. 

I cringe whenever I hear this bullet point mentioned.

Step 1: Age 67 passes, and with it additional screenings required, including cognitive.

Step 2: Courts weigh in on age discrimination, as at first Step 1 only applied to 65 - 67

Step 3: All ages subject to new screenings, including cognitive.

Step 4: some pilots who had previously been in the clear at Step 1 find themselves running afoul of the new screenings (think 59yo experiencing what might otherwise have gone undiagnosed early cognitive decline)

Step 5: HUGE PROFITS!!!  

 

Here again, whoever is pushing this agenda is counting chicks way before they hatch.

[FourFans]

4 hours ago, AirGuardianC141747 said:

Well, at least I most likely would be eligible to fly to Japan since they have already brought the age limit up thru 67 til their 68th birthday awhile back. I like the “extend my LTD a couple of more years!” 

Sadly, there are more than few old-as-dirt-5-times-divorced captains I met over at 5Y who "had to keep working until 65" who would probably jump at the chance to stay until 68.  Retirement money counts.  Have they sorted out the LOA's to that contract yet?  I'm hoping you guys get a good retirement deal out of it.

[Prozac]

1 hour ago, BFM this said:

I cringe whenever I hear this bullet point mentioned.

Step 1: Age 67 passes, and with it additional screenings required, including cognitive.

Step 2: Courts weigh in on age discrimination, as at first Step 1 only applied to 65 - 67

Step 3: All ages subject to new screenings, including cognitive.

Step 4: some pilots who had previously been in the clear at Step 1 find themselves running afoul of the new screenings (think 59yo experiencing what might otherwise have gone undiagnosed early cognitive decline)

Step 5: HUGE PROFITS!!!  

 

Here again, whoever is pushing this agenda is counting chicks way before they hatch.

Yeah, I’ve kind of wondered if it might play out that way too. One reason the airlines might want to think long and hard about this one as it very well could make their pilot “shortage” worse. 

[AirGuardianC141747]

2 hours ago, FourFans130 said:

Sadly, there are more than few old-as-dirt-5-times-divorced captains I met over at 5Y who "had to keep working until 65" who would probably jump at the chance to stay until 68.  Retirement money counts.  Have they sorted out the LOA's to that contract yet?  I'm hoping you guys get a good retirement deal out of it.

True, so very true. Granted the Big Boyz have plenty of X wives and dependents roaming amuck as well, I just don’t think it’s quite as rampant as 5Y has far greater access than most and the time to delve into such Team X builders club at troublemaker locations. The 100% match up to 10% of your annual salary was a good jump. While many weren’t that happy on the additional 2% DC, I let them know you have no idea how big that really is. I was surprised we were even given anything, so I believe it’s the foot in the door kind of thing. Something they can add too as needed and we need it! “So you’re telling me there’s a chance!” -Lloyd Christmas.

Always bleeding, just bleeding some more now that the 175% pay is slowly drying up. 90% were snagging it around the world on the 777/747 side. Now it’s just Big Red so all eyes when bidding are now facing Asia. Get it while you can, everything is cyclic.

Edited May 15, 2022 by AirGuardianC141747

[BFM this]

2 hours ago, FourFans130 said:

Sadly, there are more than few old-as-dirt-5-times-divorced captains I met over at 5Y who "had to keep working until 65" who would probably jump at the chance to stay until 68.  Retirement money counts.  Have they sorted out the LOA's to that contract yet?  I'm hoping you guys get a good retirement deal out of it.

In legacy initial last year, having taken a COVID victory lap at the ACMI...

Sim-P is a crusty old dude, mid 70's, with plenty of stories.  Started out at Air Cal, mentioned this 6-9 times every day we worked with him.  Great guy, easy to get along with.  Walked with a cane.  Took quite a while to get down the stairs to the sim bay, so if one of us needed to hit the head mid session, he'd just toss us his badge to get in/out of the door vice walking out with us.  He was there...because he felt he needed to.  His was the standard "timing is everything" story, with maybe one divorce, maybe one ill-timed change of carrier, but otherwise he caught the triple furlough whammy.

Came home and told the Frau that our financial goal, beyond anything else, was NOT to end up in a similar situation.

[AirGuardianC141747]

3 hours ago, BFM this said:

In legacy initial last year, having taken a COVID victory lap at the ACMI...

Sim-P is a crusty old dude, mid 70's, with plenty of stories.  Started out at Air Cal, mentioned this 6-9 times every day we worked with him.  Great guy, easy to get along with.  Walked with a cane.  Took quite a while to get down the stairs to the sim bay, so if one of us needed to hit the head mid session, he'd just toss us his badge to get in/out of the door vice walking out with us.  He was there...because he felt he needed to.  His was the standard "timing is everything" story, with maybe one divorce, maybe one ill-timed change of carrier, but otherwise he caught the triple furlough whammy.

Came home and told the Frau that our financial goal, beyond anything else, was NOT to end up in a similar situation.

Agree, we do our best to mitigate the above. We make inputs to the best of our ability, but in the end it’s well documented within our industry: “Timing is Everything!” Amazing to think that even your Birth Date or SSN has impact that you have no control over down the road. Many other variables obviously, but no one is shooting to be furloughed, have their carrier merge and get whip sawed or worse yet disappear overnight. Nothing like 20/20 hindsight, and even then some things aren’t avoidable. Too many lost ships at sea out there. While some had a big hand in their circumstances many others did not. I can only evaluate my career at the end looking back. Try to enjoy the ride getting there.

[FourFans]

15 hours ago, BFM this said:

In legacy initial last year, having taken a COVID victory lap at the ACMI...

Sim-P is a crusty old dude, mid 70's, with plenty of stories.  Started out at Air Cal, mentioned this 6-9 times every day we worked with him.  Great guy, easy to get along with.  Walked with a cane.  Took quite a while to get down the stairs to the sim bay, so if one of us needed to hit the head mid session, he'd just toss us his badge to get in/out of the door vice walking out with us.  He was there...because he felt he needed to.  His was the standard "timing is everything" story, with maybe one divorce, maybe one ill-timed change of carrier, but otherwise he caught the triple furlough whammy.

Came home and told the Frau that our financial goal, beyond anything else, was NOT to end up in a similar situation.

Mr. Lincoln in the C-130E sim on the graveyard shift at Little Rock.  That dude was there for the patriotism, not the paycheck.  If you know, you know...and that man was on bride 1.0...amazing.

[Danger41]

Anyone for the deets on UAL new contract?

[HuggyU2]

There is no new contract. There is not even a TA yet, just an Agreement in Principle (AIP)  

I'll post info when it comes out. 

Edited May 16, 2022 by HuggyU2

[JeremiahWeed]

On 5/14/2022 at 12:34 AM, kaputt said:

Will raising the age limit really help? It seems to me the big shortage right now is regional Captains. 

There isn't a pilot shortage.  There are more than enough qualified candidates.  The problem at most airlines is simply training throughput.  If you look a bit, there is plenty of info circulating around the interwebs to support this.  https://www.alpa.org/advocacy/pilot-supply is one example.

Airlines are quick to jump on the pilot shortage myth instead of taking responsibility for their own poor planning which is creating a training bottleneck.

Age 67 is an uphill battle because it hasn't changed with ICAO.  Not the same as when we went from 60 to 65.  65 had already changed internationally and the skids were greased to make it happen fast and it did.  67 is not the same situation and at least at ALPA, it is not supported by the majority of pilot groups.  I'm sure there will be some pilots that will want to fly until they die, but from what I'm hearing from my union contacts on Capitol Hill, it's unlikely to gain much traction.

[Wendell]

Does anyone have a cup with a lid or water bottle that they use that will fit in the smaller European sized cup holders in the Airbus? I’m currently in the 350 but I assume they are all the same sized across the different fleets.  Thanks for your help!