The new airline thread

[AirGuardianC141747]

On 5/15/2022 at 11:09 AM, FourFans130 said:

 I'm hoping you guys get a good retirement deal out of it.

Beyond the LOA’s that have started hardening, there now are tremors surrounding another package possibly in the works to help stop the outflow of folks. We’ll see….. hopefully more than a gift card.

Edited May 22, 2022 by AirGuardianC141747

[AirGuardianC141747]

On 5/16/2022 at 3:16 PM, HuggyU2 said:

There is no new contract. There is not even a TA yet, just an Agreement in Principle (AIP)  

I'll post info when it comes out. 

Hmmm, 19% DC in there somewhere? Keep moving on up! Helps all around.

Edited May 22, 2022 by AirGuardianC141747

[Smokin]

Lots of rumors, nothing reliable.  I've heard 19% DC, positive space commuting, pay raise, better control of schedules, etc.  Now way that even 10% of the rumors are true.  I highly doubt that anyone involved in the negotiations have talked about any of it, so it is likely one pilot saying what "my friend is on the committee and he said he'd like to see..." which two pilots later turns into "it's already in the TA that we're getting...". 

[Lord Ratner]

21 hours ago, Smokin said:

Lots of rumors, nothing reliable.  I've heard 19% DC, positive space commuting, pay raise, better control of schedules, etc.  Now way that even 10% of the rumors are true.  I highly doubt that anyone involved in the negotiations have talked about any of it, so it is likely one pilot saying what "my friend is on the committee and he said he'd like to see..." which two pilots later turns into "it's already in the TA that we're getting...". 

Been involved in the union much?

 

I've been blown away by how leaky *everyone* is. Once you get connected to the "swamp" within your union, you start getting texts anytime anything happens, v from multiple people.

 

The gossip and whisper campaigns are amazing, all the way to the top.

[Newb]

I ran through a search on airline pilot central, but no dice….For airline applications, the question:

6. Have you ever been removed from flight status, voluntarily or involuntarily, or failed flight training of any type, or failed any check ride?

Does “removed from flight status” include DNIF as well? 
 

Also “any check ride” includes UPT? 

 

Edited May 25, 2022 by Newb

[nunya]

14 minutes ago, Newb said:

Does “removed from flight status” include DNIF as well? 

Hell no.

14 minutes ago, Newb said:

Also “any check ride” includes UPT? 

I say no.  In FAR parlance, those were "progress checks."

Edited May 25, 2022 by nunya

[HuggyU2]

DNIF:  no.  To include a long-term illness (my opinion).  You have a Class I?  You're GTG.  I have a friend that has MS.  He was able to get a Class I, and was hired by one of the Big 6.  

Form 8 or FAA checkrides only.  

[Smokin]

For the UPT checkrides, I would say yes.  At one point, the Delta hiring facebook page (think that's where it was) was asked this question and they said to answer yes.  Your UPT checkrides are in the back of your green flight records folder, so they can see it when you give them your records.  If they consider it a checkride and you answered no, you might be shown the door.  If they don't, they'll read your yes answer, realize you have integrity for speaking up when you maybe didn't need to, and probably give a positive review.

[JS]

I put my failed UPT checkride on my Delta application.  They asked and my answer was something short like "drifted a few feet out of position on my formation checkride a few times, so I had to repeat that checkride and an additional training ride.  It was actually a good experience and I learned more from the process."

 

I think at the end of the day, they really don't give a crap, especially about UPT checkrides.  But I figured better safe than sorry.  Also, I don't remember bringing in any "green flight records folder" to my Delta interview 7 years ago.  I brought the two page ARMS summary I printed from the AF portal, and perhaps the summary checkride Form 8 sheet. 

[Guardian]

They don’t do the flight record green folders anymore. All digital. No more annual records review.

[HuggyU2]

2 hours ago, Guardian said:

They don’t do the flight record green folders anymore. All digital. No more annual records review.

Impossible!  The AF modernized that system?  

I don't believe it.  How long did it take the IT specialists to do it?  

But as we know, the AF puts the "IT" in "shit".  

[Hacker]

13 hours ago, JS said:

I think at the end of the day, they really don't give a crap, especially about UPT checkrides. 

News flash: that's the case for the majority of the background/experience check items that they're asking for you to report on your application. It is an integrity check (just to see if you'll self-report) just as much as it is a survey of your background.

Almost everyone flying at the airlines has a black mark on their record of some sort, but we in the flying business don't generally share the skeletons in our closet with even our friends, so we tend to have a distorted view of who exactly our peers are. Plenty of high-performing pilots and officers have made mistakes that left a mark on their otherwise-excellent careers.

A lot of guys have busted checkrides, but that also goes for even more significant issues like administrative punishments, Art 15s or LORs, and -gasp- even FEBs -- a lot of things that we consider the kiss of death inside the USAF fishbowl but don't carry the same perceptual value in the civilian flying world.

Some of the black marks would make your eyes pop out: DUIs, crashed airplanes in which the cause was pilot error, even criminal records. Hell, at FedEx there was a dude who had been arrested and charged with murdering his wife.

Just remember they're looking at the totality of your professional experience, and they don't expect that everyone walking through the door is going to have a perfectly clean history.

 

Edited May 26, 2022 by Hacker

[xaarman]

The instructions should include whether or not they want Part 141 or UPT stage checks listed. When I was filling out applications, DAL was a yes to all. IIRC Southwest was a no, and only wanted failures listed after your PPL. 

This was in 2017 before their fancy new website and all so it may have changed, but I remember everything being pretty clear in the instructions.

UPT were stage checks… Q3s were checkride failures  

 

 

Edited May 26, 2022 by xaarman

[brabus]

Regarding checkride failure question on DAL’s app…

Pretty straight forward - busted daily UPT rides, IPUG rides, etc. don’t count,  but a UPT phase checkride does. Form 8s and FAA checkrides do as well.

 

 

[JS]

4 hours ago, Hacker said:

.....Almost everyone flying at the airlines has a black mark on their record of some sort, but we in the flying business don't generally share the skeletons in our closet with even our friends, so we tend to have a distorted view of who exactly our peers are.....

 

Yeah, I was going to say something similar.  I remember going through interview training (Emerald Coast with Aaron) and he said how he doesn't remember ever meeting a mobility pilot who didn't have at least one Q3 on their resume; seems AMC looks at it like some sort of administrative management tool.  I got the impression from him that the fighter community was more apt to debrief the shit out of someone as opposed to mark up their flight records with an "administrative" Q3 for something relatively minor, but maybe you can attest to that, Hacker.  Either way, the airline is fully expecting a majority of folks walking through the door to have some imperfections.  If I were on the interview board, I would be extra leery if someone didn't have even the slightest blemish reported on their record. 

[tatertots]

9 hours ago, brabus said:

Regarding checkride failure question on DAL’s app…

Pretty straight forward - busted daily UPT rides, IPUG rides, etc. don’t count,  but a UPT phase checkride does. Form 8s and FAA checkrides do as well.

 

 

I put a failed t-6 midphase check and a failed PPL check from when I was 19. I received exactly zero questions about it at the interview. They did ask why my grades in college tanked after I got my pilot slot

[pawnman]

7 hours ago, JS said:

Yeah, I was going to say something similar.  I remember going through interview training (Emerald Coast with Aaron) and he said how he doesn't remember ever meeting a mobility pilot who didn't have at least one Q3 on their resume; seems AMC looks at it like some sort of administrative management tool.  I got the impression from him that the fighter community was more apt to debrief the shit out of someone as opposed to mark up their flight records with an "administrative" Q3 for something relatively minor, but maybe you can attest to that, Hacker.  Either way, the airline is fully expecting a majority of folks walking through the door to have some imperfections.  If I were on the interview board, I would be extra leery if someone didn't have even the slightest blemish reported on their record. 

It was pretty rare in B-1 land. I was an evaluator for six years and never gave a Q-3, and in a year at OGV only saw a single Q-3 come through the office.

[SurelySerious]

It was pretty rare in B-1 land. I was an evaluator for six years and never gave a Q-3, and in a year at OGV only saw a single Q-3 come through the office.

We had a SQ CC in BUFF land give out like 19 in his tenure. It was unbelievable to watch.

[elvis]

1 hour ago, tatertots said:

I put a failed t-6 midphase check and a failed PPL check from when I was 19. I received exactly zero questions about it at the interview. They did ask why my grades in college tanked after I got my pilot slot

Rigorous conditioning of the liver preparing for UPT obviously 

[JS]

46 minutes ago, SurelySerious said:

We had a SQ CC in BUFF land give out like 19 in his tenure. It was unbelievable to watch.

Yeah, some people just have to "do something" I guess.  We had a crew get a Q3/1 on a deployment once.  We all asked "what the fuck is that," and it was explained that they were grounded and immediately put back on flying status in the same stroke of the pen so that they could continue flying in the war.  Wasn't that egregious of a mistake either, if I remember correctly. 

[brabus]

3 hours ago, tatertots said:

They did ask why my grades in college tanked after I got my pilot slot

They asked me what drove me to pursue a masters, I said because I had to for promotion. They then asked if I still would have done it had that not been a promotion requirement and I said “not a chance.” Their faces were priceless. But I think they appreciated the honesty and not some BS line about “bettering” myself.

[bfargin]

Sounds like it's getting ugly out there. Any company numbers on canceled flights?

[nunya]

1 hour ago, bfargin said:

Sounds like it's getting ugly out there. Any company numbers on canceled flights?

https://flightaware.com/live/cancelled/today

Big D leading the way in number and percentage!  😆

[NKAWTG]

3 hours ago, nunya said:

https://flightaware.com/live/cancelled/today

Big D leading the way in number and percentage!  😆

Case of marketing selling more tickets than they have people to fly them.  It's not just the pilots, they are short on flight attendants,  gate agents and ramp personnel.   

[Smokin]

A cancelled flight due to the airlines fault should be the same compensation as an involuntary bump.