The new airline thread

[SocialD]

13 hours ago, nunya said:

https://flightaware.com/live/cancelled/today

Big D leading the way in number and percentage!  😆

 

If you're not first, you're last!  But seriously, it's an absolute shitshow, I was called 6 times yesterday for multiple greenslips per call.  It was the same the day prior.  We should have already pulled back our flying like most of the other airlines.

 

[StoleIt]

16 hours ago, nunya said:

https://flightaware.com/live/cancelled/today

Big D leading the way in number and percentage!  😆

Finally American isn't the worst at something!

But, sadly, the bigger the melt down we have the better the bargaining power. Need a way to keep our greedy pilots out of DOTC otherwise we will never get a industry leading (or even on par) contract.

[SurelySerious]

Finally American isn't the worst at something!
But, sadly, the bigger the melt down we have the better the bargaining power. Need a way to keep our greedy pilots out of DOTC otherwise we will never get a industry leading (or even on par) contract.

You mean the negotiators are supposed to negotiate instead of pick up premium constantly?

[di1630]

When someone drops mil leave say 6 months into their airline career then joins the airline 2 years later…are they still on first year pay or do they move up the scale with seniority?

I know guys who drop mil leave after 1 week and I’m curious how that goes.

[nunya]

6 hours ago, di1630 said:

When someone drops mil leave say 6 months into their airline career then joins the airline 2 years later…are they still on first year pay or do they move up the scale with seniority?

3d year pay but you might go back on probation if you didn't finish that.

[SocialD]

6 hours ago, di1630 said:

When someone drops mil leave say 6 months into their airline career then joins the airline 2 years later…are they still on first year pay or do they move up the scale with seniority?

I know guys who drop mil leave after 1 week and I’m curious how that goes.

 

Generally speaking you continue to accrue longevity, so you'd come back on 3rd year pay.  You'd likely return with 6 months of probation remaining, unless you had already met the hour requirements to finish probation.  At DAL, it's 1 year.or 400 hours (or upgrade to Captain) to get off probation. 

 

Depending on how your carrier handles it, coming back off MLOA can be a fuck job.  We accrue vacation in arrears, so most guys end long term MLOA and have very few days of vacation. The only long term MLOA I've taken is for deployments, unfortunately for me, it's always been during vacation bidding time.  Most recently, I was successful in convincing them that I should be able to get a specific week because someone junior to me had been awarded that week during bidding.  A few times before that, I was SOL and left to try to move up my vacations via our moveup process.  I think there is a lawsuit pending on this (UAL guy I think), but I'm not sure the a status of that.   

 

Most all the guys in my squadron, though not required, wait until they're off probation before they drop any long term MLOA.  We've needed a few guys for leadership spots so they bailed at like 6 months and another dude just bailed right after indoc lol.  Some guys worry about coming back to another training course on probation, but I think that worry is a bit overblown.  Like squadron life, don't be a dick and probation is nothing.  I guess if someone really struggled with the training program, then I maybe wait to get off probation before leaving.  

[HuggyU2]

On 6/3/2022 at 4:51 AM, SocialD said:

We've needed a few guys for leadership spots so they bailed at like 6 months...

The AF "needs" you.  I'm of the belief that the AF can be told to wait.  

While on Active Duty, each of us... and our families... were often managed in a crisis manner of "we need you to deploy NOW!"  Many things seemed to be an emergency because of lack of planning.  As an AD pilot, we didn't have a choice.  

Now that a pilot has left active duty and has an airline job along with their Guard/Reserve job, it's time to tell the AF they will have to wait.  And 6 months is not unreasonable. The AF will not crumble because you cannot meet their timeline.  

Giving up union protection by remaining on probation is probably not going to be a factor.  But... what if it is?  Will the AF rescue you because you went on mil leave 6 months before your probationary period was up to help the AF out?  How's your family going to feel about your gamble if you lose?

Most of you have SGLI, right?  Why?  It's because it is very cheap insurance.  

Waiting a few months and getting off probation before diving back into the squadron is ALSO cheap insurance.  

 

Edited June 4, 2022 by HuggyU2

[Scooter14]

The AF "needs" you.  I'm of the belief that the AF can be told to wait.  
While on Active Duty, each of us... and our families... were often managed in a crisis manner of "we need you to deploy NOW!"  Many things seemed to be an emergency because of lack of planning.  As an AD pilot, we didn't have a choice.  
Now that a pilot has left active duty and has an airline job along with their Guard/Reserve job, it's time to tell the AF they will have to wait.  And 6 months is not unreasonable. The AF will not crumble because you cannot meet their timeline.  
Giving up union protection by remaining on probation is probably not going to be a factor.  But... what if it is?  Will the AF rescue you because you went on mil leave 6 months before your probationary period was up to help the AF out?  How's your family going to feel about your gamble if you lose?
Most of you have SGLI, right?  Why?  It's because it is very cheap insurance.  
Waiting a few months and getting off probation before diving back into the squadron is ALSO cheap insurance.  
 

100%

[TheNewGazmo]

When someone drops mil leave say 6 months into their airline career then joins the airline 2 years later…are they still on first year pay or do they move up the scale with seniority?

I know guys who drop mil leave after 1 week and I’m curious how that goes.

Each company has different guidelines on what "probation" is and when you are removed from it. It is normally a year, but I believe you can be removed from probation if you fly more than X-amount of hours as well. Most prefer you get through OE and consolidation before you drop mil leave. Of course if you are going to be one of these guys that drops mil leave for two years shortly after being hired so you can chase an AD retirement, they can't do much about that, but I can't imagine they think highly of it. When most of our reserve pilots are crediting 80+ hours a month, we are hiring pilots for a reason; because we need them NOW.

[FourFans]

I've considered finding orders to close out my remaining 3 years of AD to get the full retirement...and then I log-in (more correctly: I ATTEMPT to log-in) to a AF computer...and my decision to bypass the AD retirement solidifies again.

As to probation, Huggy shacked it.  Don't risk excessively extending probation.  That next 20 year multi-million dollar career in the airlines simply isn't worth the 12 months of orders and absoluteluy zero protection that the USAF will give you in the event your new airline fires or furloughs you because of COVID-23 or whatever insanity is next.  A few days here and there for drill weekend is manageable.  Dropping 3 years at 6 months in is hanging it out on the line in what has proven to be a feast-or-famine industry.

[bfargin]

Vintage Delta Ad (early '70s?). According to my mom my first commercial flight as a small kid was in 1967 aboard a Delta jet out of Atlanta (assume it was a DC-9, since she was pretty sure it was a jet and not a prop.).

[Tank]

17 minutes ago, bfargin said:

Vintage Delta Ad (early '70s?). According to my mom my first commercial flight as a small kid was in 1967 aboard a Delta jet out of Atlanta (assume it was a DC-9, since she was pretty sure it was a jet and not a prop.).

And this is them still working today!

Edited June 5, 2022 by Tank

[bfargin]

Of course as a kid and not paying for tickets, the 1970s was my golden age of flying. Beautiful flight attendants back in the day. At least to this 9 to 19 year old. I flew back and forth from Taiwan to BNA every other year from 1970 through 1982. Usually Northwest Orient across the pond and then some combination of Eastern, Continental, Braniff, AA and/or Delta (the ones I remember anyway) to get across the US. Actual silverware, porcelain/china plates, real hot food cooked onboard... The cost back then was about what Business class prices are now (when adjusted for time). So while coach seats have gotten way too cheap, for comparable travel amenities that I remember, the price is pretty constant. The huge negative was the smoking sections. The thick smoke covering the top 1/3 of the fuselage sucked on a 12 hour flight from TPE or NRT to SEA, DTW, or MSP. I remember once /maybe twice having to stop in ANC for fuel when headwinds were strong (guessing headed towards Asia but don't remember for sure). Great memories looking back 50 plus years.

- gramps

Edited June 5, 2022 by bfargin

[StoleIt]

39 minutes ago, Tank said:

And this is them still working today!

NSFW (and also virtually none are US based legacy):
https://www.reddit.com/r/SexyFlightAttendants_/

[SocialD]

On 6/4/2022 at 12:08 PM, HuggyU2 said:

The AF "needs" you.  I'm of the belief that the AF can be told to wait.  

 

100% agreement with you there!  You're talking to the guy that has never been full time since getting hired at the airlines (other than deployments/spinup) and often has to "shift" availability due to greenslips lol.  The military once left me high and dry and it forever changed my mindset wrt the military and my priorities.  Though I don't think probation is that high threat, for the reasons you stated, I recommend to all my guys that they just do the year and finish probation.  Cheap insurance.  Most listen, some don't *shrug*....team Sociald is taken care of!   

 

But to your point, I should have used "air quotes" when I said needed.   The dudes I was referencing, were filling WG and OG/CC roles and I think they really didn't want to do those jobs as part timers (and/or commute).  The previous guys were moving to a star or retiring, so the spots were being vacated one way or another.  In the ANG there are issues with filing control grades or losing them.  Unfilled controlled grades can quickly get snagged and moved to other groups on base and/or other wings within the state.  Once they're gone, it's tough to get them back.  Delaying that control grade may mean adding years get to your retirement.  Considering these guys both had a decent amount of tech time (read...nice retirement between mil/tech) and are in their late 40s, I'm guessing it was worth the relatively small gamble for them.  But yes, for the younger guys...100% protect your airline gig.  The military will always be there and can wait.  AGR spots will be opening up soon as other guys get hired at the airlines lol.  

[WheelsOff]

How about that new contract at the AA WOs that signed this week…pretty substantial pay increase for a regional bubba, even though it’s apparently only good for the next 2 years. 
 

Some seem to be of the opinion that it’s a brilliant chess move by AA management—trying to stem the bleeding of its regional pilots to other carriers, while simultaneously hedging the bet that if they file BK in the next 2 years it’ll void the contract anyways.

Others seem to focus more on the “rising tide raises all boats” theory.

Not an expert, so am curious to hear what some of the airline folks on here think about it. Have a CJO with them and plan to live in one of their domiciles so obviously I’m watching this situation pretty close. Could either be a brilliant move, or could be the catalyst that causes its regional side of the business to eventually implode if they file BK. Either way, seems like a bold (er, risky?) move. 

Edited June 12, 2022 by WheelsOff

[xaarman]

Can’t wait for the shitstorm in 24 months as everyone there takes a 50% pay cut. 
 

No one in their right mind should stay there over a spot at the big 6, or even Spirit/Frontier/JBlue. 

[Danger41]

With the economy and all associated things with the economy in the toilet, any rumblings or furloughs or anything? Or is the retirement wave going to help stem that?

[BashiChuni]

full steam ahead, until full reverse!

[HuggyU2]

^^ 👆☝️ ^^

[SocialD]

11 hours ago, BashiChuni said:

full steam ahead, until full reverse!

 

Make hay while the sun shines!  Here's hoping the chronic understaffing and massive amount of retirements will mitigate many furloughs should airline travel take a dump.  I certainly wouldn't let get of those mil gigs until you have a fair amount of the pilot list junior to you.  

[Waingro]

21 hours ago, Danger41 said:

With the economy and all associated things with the economy in the toilet, any rumblings or furloughs or anything? Or is the retirement wave going to help stem that?

Wait, what? It is? Unemployment is at record lows. Personal income is up month over month, as is disposable income, as is consumer spending. Our load factors are back to pre-Covid levels if not higher. We're often full, and we've been leaving non-revs behind at least half the time.

What's going on in your world that has the economy in the toilet where you live?

[brabus]

Good God those are some massive rose-colored glasses you have on. Maybe take a time out and open the aperture a little beyond how full flights currently are. I'd start with the energy sector, the stock market, highest inflation in 40 years, a ludicrous housing/rental market, etc. None of those paint a "good economy," and certainly not a good one in the near future as a likely large recession is looming.  Hope you're not out buying all your toys on credit right now.

[tac airlifter]

20 minutes ago, Waingro said:

Wait, what? It is? Unemployment is at record lows. Personal income is up month over month, as is disposable income, as is consumer spending. Our load factors are back to pre-Covid levels if not higher. We're often full, and we've been leaving non-revs behind at least half the time.

What's going on in your world that has the economy in the toilet where you live?

My disposable income has decreased, along with everyone I know, due to inflation and rising gas prices.  

[Danger41]

6 hours ago, Waingro said:

What's going on in your world that has the economy in the toilet where you live?

I’m married with 3 kids.