The new airline thread

[SurelySerious]

 
Yes sir, there are plenty...as with most things, a vast majority of the time, it's an ATL Captain.  

Sure, I show up documents in hand…but only a few people take more than a cursory glance. One was an old DAL 75 CA, and the other couple have been regional jet CAs. Like yes, I’m trying to sit in this tiny CRJ jump seat just for fun.

[Lord Ratner]

Asking to see the radio operator license is little dick energy

[HuggyU2]

I'm with SocialD on this. I show up with everything ready, so they don't have to ask. It's a professional courtesy. 
They are required to check them, and we know it. If the Cappy doesn't care, fine with me. 

I'm not a Captain... and probably never will be... but if someone is going to sit in the cockpit jumpseat behind me, you can be sure I'll check every one of their required credentials. 

[Prozac]

9 minutes ago, HuggyU2 said:

I'm with SocialD on this. I show up with everything ready, so they don't have to ask. It's a professional courtesy. 
They are required to check them, and we know it. If the Cappy doesn't care, fine with me. 

I'm not a Captain... and probably never will be... but if someone is going to sit in the cockpit jumpseat behind me, you can be sure I'll check every one of their required credentials. 

Really Huggy? Including the FCC permit? (Busting your balls here brotha). But seriously, I get the airline ID, the license, maybe even the medical, & I tip my hat to the guys that carry & cross check a scab list. But the radiotelephone thing is a bit much. Next I’m gonna be getting shit ‘cause my shoes aren’t shined & my buttons aren’t polished. If a guy is obviously a pilot trying to get to work or, better, go home on my airplane, he’s getting on with the least hassle possible. 

[SocialD]

9 hours ago, Prozac said:

Really Huggy? Including the FCC permit? (Busting your balls here brotha). But seriously, I get the airline ID, the license, maybe even the medical, & I tip my hat to the guys that carry & cross check a scab list. But the radiotelephone thing is a bit much. Next I’m gonna be getting shit ‘cause my shoes aren’t shined & my buttons aren’t polished. If a guy is obviously a pilot trying to get to work or, better, go home on my airplane, he’s getting on with the least hassle possible. 

 

 

My FCC permit is in the same plastic sleeve as my ATP and medical, so I really don't see the big deal if they would ask for it.  That said, outside of type rides, I've never once been asked to see my FCC permit (or asked for it as a Captain).  I'm not sure why it's still a thing, it's ridiculous since it's simply a paperwork/money drill.  But there seems to be trend of guys who act like you're ruining their day to open their wallet and show some paperwork. 

[StoleIt]

Well, some good has come from this because I just realized I don't have a copy of my FCC license in my non-rev wallet. So thanks for that everybody!

[FourFans]

9 hours ago, SocialD said:

there seems to be trend of guys who act like you're ruining their day to open their wallet and show some paperwork. 

...so...it was you...

Great.  Just great.  Now I have to ask every CA I jumpseat with what their BO handle is.  Fan-fucking-tastic.

Edited September 10, 2022 by FourFans130

[AirGuardianC141747]

Not every place is perfect by any means and may everyone find there destination that lasts. But all of the above reaffirms jump seating sucks bottom line. Flight deck is like a box of chocolates, you never know what you’re going to get…

[tac airlifter]

Pardon my ignorance on airline commuting, but is travel by jump seat the most common way for you guys to get to/from your domicile?  It looks like some companies buy their employees a ticket which seems more convenient.

It’s likely I’ll be a commuter for yeas if not forever; ergo it seems factoring ease of commute into my selection criteria would be smart.

[brabus]

I think cargo has done this for a long time. Some pax airlines have been buying seats for commuters due to COVID-related bullshit. But, TBD whether this goes away/stays away after LOAs expire, or if we’ve done this for so long that it’ll be incorporated into future contracts as the “new industry standard.” Wide variation of opinions on that part. Prior to all this, commuters could fly stand by in the back, but full flights drive JS necessity. 

Edited September 11, 2022 by brabus

[AirGuardianC141747]

15 hours ago, tac airlifter said:

Pardon my ignorance on airline commuting, but is travel by jump seat the most common way for you guys to get to/from your domicile?  It looks like some companies buy their employees a ticket which seems more convenient.

It’s likely I’ll be a commuter for yeas if not forever; ergo it seems factoring ease of commute into my selection criteria would be smart.

As brabus mentioned, hopefully this will be incorporated into future contracts for the majors, etc. which as a first hand user of this benefit I can attest to the stress free/no responsibility to get to work if flights are full, canceled, maintenance canceled, delayed, you’re unable to secure a flight deck seat due to company crew priority or some other seniority/first come first serve/bumped by Capt Crusader, etc. Not all cargo is created equal. Those at Purple/Brown can be more specific/correct me, but FedEx/UPS have trips that include commute on the front, back or both but not all trips are covered. Seniority drives the ability to guarantee this commuting for the most part is what great friends at both places tell me. Both have a travel bank type deal as well, but some of it seems restrictive due to company rules, etc. You can watch the turmoil on APC if bored. I just remember a Delta Capt friend decades ago telling me that getting to work was half the pressure of the job. Easier with current tech today, but still shenanigans/pressure involved and overbooking is back like Godzilla. Main reason I went to Atlas as I could care less about maneuvering for work or where I lived. Not selling it, decent contract and it has its merits depending on your priorities, but nothing like Purple/Brown, Big 3, etc. in other areas no doubt. If your dream home/area happens to be in/near base for an airline that is an amazing opportunity/consideration for ease of life. I do like racking up the miles, although it hasn’t been as good with current conditions. Easier to pickup extra $ trips living in domicile if that’s your gig as well.

Edited September 12, 2022 by AirGuardianC141747

[HuggyU2]

19 hours ago, tac airlifter said:

Pardon my ignorance on airline commuting, but is travel by jump seat the most common way for you guys to get to/from your domicile?  

If you are considering the airlines, and this is a serious question, then you need to lean on your squadron mates for some education / mentoring. 
Commuting is not an insignificant decision... and you need a lot more info than can be offered on this thread. 
 

[TreeA10]

Got snagged for a scheduled deadhead to PHL to fly Rome. I did the scheduled flight in the day prior but the FB was commuting in the day of departure. The FB was commuting from Jacksonville, had two flights cancel, got the last flight available, and landed in Philly 20 minutes from departure. I don't non-rev travel well and the stress of commuting would make me an unhappy camper. However, I fly with a lot of guys that have been commuting for decades and are obviously okay with it. 

[BFM this]

7 hours ago, HuggyU2 said:

Commuting is not an insignificant decision... 

5 hours ago, TreeA10 said:

I fly with a lot of guys that have been commuting for decades and are obviously okay with it. 

For some, it makes sense, and they seem to be making the ideal decision.  I was fortunate to have a formative commuting experience during my first foray into 121, and it was about as bad a commuting situation as I could imagine, two legs to uncommutable pairings...wife was on board to do whatever we needed to in order to avoid commuting.  "OMG you're going to uproot the kids?  How awful, they will be so upset!!!" was the chorus from extended family and friends.  🤣 Kids were way more excited to move than we were (probably has something to do with not having to do any of the moving work).

My worthless advice, have the discussion, don't cherry pick the data, look at all of the pros and cons of living in base.  I can do things living in base that commuters have a difficult time following:

In base reserve (the biggest benefit, imo)(eta: coincidentally also topping the list of reasons I left the ACMI sector.  I spent six nights away from my own bed last month, and blocked > my best month at my last gig 🤘)

Schoolhouse or other HQ staff gigs (if you choose to live near the mothership for your carrier)

I can sit around and cherry pick premium/pickup/trade trips at my leisure, without the added tax of looking at loads/wx/connections of a commute, just suit up and drive.  My wife's favorite phrase while sitting reserve: "Honey, I got put on a turn tomorrow"

I bid a line long before I had the seniority to specifically hold commutable lines.

 

By the same token, if your family is rooted near the extended support network of family/friends/spouse's lucrative job, then that might tilt the equation the other way.  My wife's job (home office) was portable in our case.

 

Edited September 12, 2022 by BFM this

[JeremiahWeed]

On 9/11/2022 at 6:43 AM, tac airlifter said:

Pardon my ignorance on airline commuting, but is travel by jump seat the most common way for you guys to get to/from your domicile?  It looks like some companies buy their employees a ticket which seems more convenient.

It’s likely I’ll be a commuter for yeas if not forever; ergo it seems factoring ease of commute into my selection criteria would be smart.

With commuting likely in your future, I strongly suggest you consider FedEx.  It's got one of the most commuter friendly systems in the industry.  Some specifics:

First, for trips that actually leave from your domicile, there are few if any "non-commutable trips".  There's an AM launch and a PM launch and with very few exceptions, the inbound flights you would be jump seating on are timed to arrive for the sort to put the rubber dogshit on those outbound flights.

If you're actually commuting to domicile on one of our own jump seats to an AM launch (for example) it doesn't matter where you're coming from.  As long as your city is served by a FedEx flight, there will be a jump seat flight you can ride in that will match up with the outbound that's the first flight of your trip.  By "match", I mean your arrival in domicile on the jump seat will be within 2-3 hours of your trip's scheduled show time.

Jump seats are reservable up to 3-weeks in advance on a first come, first served basis.  Once you have a reservation, it's yours.  Unless you're trying to commute out of DEN, ORF or some other high density, high demand cities, getting a jump seat reserved is a non event.

But, the nice thing is that a huge percentage of the trips start with a deadhead, so a jump seat reservation is unnecessary.  The company buys you a ticket to city X for a certain price.  If you already live in city X (best scenario) then you have no need for the ticket.  You cancel the deadhead and show up for the revenue flight out of that city after getting paid all day to stay at home.  If you don't want to leave your car at the airport all week, you can use some of the ticket money you didn't spend to get an uber or limo to take you to work from your house.  Many trips also end with a deadhead which allows the pilot to do the same in reverse if he lives in city X.

The more common scenario is that a pilot will use the deadhead money to buy a ticket from his home airport to the city from which the first revenue flight leaves.  Possibly the same at the back end of the trip as well.  It's very common that a pilot who can hold front and back deadhead trips (called "double deadheads") rarely sets foot in his actual domicile.

This is not a unicorn scenario only for the very senior.  I helped another Eagle bud get hired 18 months ago.  He lives in Vegas and went to the 757 for QOL and seniority.  After 6-months, he was able to avoid reserve and regularly get front deadhead trips to the west coast.  Now when he goes to work, it's usually via a front-end deadhead to Vegas, Reno, Oakland or some other west coast city.  He's in one of the spots in the crash pad I run in MEM and I don't think I've seen him there for more than one night in the last 9-months (aside from his recurrent month).

Just like the front end, the back of trips that require you to arrive in domicile will almost always have an outbound flight back to your home city.  Some of the rubber dogshit you (or someone else) brought in on the last flight of your trip has to go to your home city.  After a couple hours or less of sort time, you jump on a jump seat back to your home town and call it a trip.

With a little seniority, the number of commutes each month is usually a max of two.  The gold standard for a domestic schedule is week-on, week-off.  International flyers can reduce that commute frequency to once a month if they're willing to work a single 12-14 day trip.  With the deadhead tickets and deviation options, most, if not all commutes are on a positive space ticket paid for by the company with full pay for your time spent getting to work.

I realize the cargo dark side is not for everyone but make sure you're getting an accurate perspective on what it's really like and not what you assume or what someone in the pax biz has decided it is.  I've done both types of flying and I can say without a doubt that the schedules at FedEx are easier and way more commuter friendly than anything I did at UAL.

I'm an international junkie and I'm in a 5-star hotel in Singapore as I type this.  My last duty day today was a one hour flight from Penang, Malyasia to Singapore.  Tomorrow I will deviate and forgo the scheduled deadhead on UAL from here back to SFO (my current base).  Instead I will take my airline of choice (AA) back to the US via Tokyo and Dallas.  It's a long day but some decent food, premium booze and a lay flat bed in business class will make it tolerable.  I went to work on 29 Aug on another commercial deadhead to Singapore and will be home on 13 Sep.  In those 2-weeks, I flew 12 revenue flights for a total of 32.5 block hours.  Aside from the deadhead duty from/to the US, my longest duty day was 8 hours.  That's my month.  I have the rest of the month off and if I choose to bid a schedule that starts mid-October will have more than a month off without any vacation.  I have not broken through 50% in my current seat (767 Captain) and have spent most of my career at about 60% in my seats where I am now.  It's not difficult to get these schedules, especially if you're willing to fly internationally and spend bigger chunks of time on the road.  Or you can stay domestic and seek QOL in the junior equipment like my Vegas bud.  There are pros and cons, but I'm flying with 30-year old new hires who will be 777 Captains before they hit 40 if they want. We have 5 year 767 Captains.  There's something to be said for a pilot being able to spend the last 20-25 years of their career in the left seat of the top earning aircraft.  Worth considering.  If you want more info, let me know.

Edited September 12, 2022 by JeremiahWeed

[Homestar]

1 hour ago, JeremiahWeed said:

I strongly suggest you consider FedEx.

I also strongly suggest I consider FedEx.... Rumor is they have 10,000 profiles and 2,000+ with internal recs.

Hard to get a call from Purple unless you have someone who can walk into the chief pilot's office.

Just keep hitting Submit!

[SocialD]

If you're going to commute, I'd seriously look at FDX/UPS.  I if had lived in a place that didn't have rather large airline hub within an hour, I certainly would have put much more effort into getting hired by FDX/UPS.  That said, I'll echo BFM's post, take a look at the pro/cons of commuting vs living in base.  I certainly get staying close to family, or being in a great location that you just can't leave...but there is certainly a price to be paid for commuting. 

 

Keep in mind that different airlines have different rules.  At DAL, reserve is pretty good and I've actually been too JUNIOR to hold reserve before.  But living in base and bidding reserve is quite a powerful tool for QOL.  As an example, since 1Jun, I've actually put on a DAL uniform about the same amount of times as a line holder would during a heavy month.  I've only slept in a hotel rooms 6 nights since 1Jun.   Is this the norm, maybe not, but it's been a dang nice summer and is clearly doable.  This fall is only looking like it will get better for me.  When I was on a WB and bid reserve, the most I ever flew was 9 days in a single month.  Most months were closer to 6 days flown, while some months I never put on a uniform.  Honestly, the thought of bidding a line and flying 13+ days/month, makes me cringe anymore.  

 

Today was a 1-day block of reserve for me.  Thanks to our reserve rules, when I woke up this morning at 0630 with no assignment on my schedule, I was 99% sure I wasn't being used today.  So far, I've been to one squadron mates house for coffee, then we went to breakfast.  After that we went to another squadron mates house to check out his new work shop.  Back home by 1130 and released from reserve at noon...man that was rough day of work.   Oh, and all 3 of us are DAL guys with 2 of us on reserve today and the other waiting for OE.  Is it always this way, certainly not...but over a career, you'll be gone A LOT less than a commuter who flies a line.  

[archer]

Hello, long time lurker here, and I'd love to pick your guys' brains if you have a second. My background is a fighter test guy with approximately 1300 hours TT approaching my commitment in about a year. Almost all of my hours are single-seat, PIC. I got IDE this year, but am leaning towards turning that down and going part time guard/reserve (most likely non-flying) and transitioning to the airlines. The task of actually making the majors, though, sounds hard, as I don't have an ATP.

1) Should I just pony up 20k over the next year to blow through the 150-200 hours I need to hit 1500? That would get me my ATP mins, which is basically the only thing that I don't have for the majors. I don't know of many airlines that do a military conversion other than FedEx, and it doesn't seem like I have the personal recs to make that a high Pk thing.

2) Should I consider the regionals? This seems like such a step backwards, but it would get me my hours I guess

3) Should I just try to stay active duty and fly for another year? Test guys don't get as many hours as they should, and my family is tired of living out in the desert

I've got 7 days to make a decision to stay in the AF or turn down school, and I'd love to hear what your thoughts are.

[tac airlifter]

Very illuminating posts on commuting, thank you!

Archer, I’ve recently met several folks in similar situations you describe.  They’ve mostly executed your COA2 successfully and transitioned into larger carriers quickly (6 months).  This is a great hiring environment.  Good luck!

ETA: in your shoes I’d turn down school & bounce— wars over.  Lol, I just turned down SDE myself.

Edited September 12, 2022 by tac airlifter

[WheelsOff]

34 minutes ago, archer said:

Hello, long time lurker here, and I'd love to pick your guys' brains if you have a second. My background is a fighter test guy with approximately 1300 hours TT approaching my commitment in about a year. Almost all of my hours are single-seat, PIC. I got IDE this year, but am leaning towards turning that down and going part time guard/reserve (most likely non-flying) and transitioning to the airlines. The task of actually making the majors, though, sounds hard, as I don't have an ATP.

1) Should I just pony up 20k over the next year to blow through the 150-200 hours I need to hit 1500? That would get me my ATP mins, which is basically the only thing that I don't have for the majors. I don't know of many airlines that do a military conversion other than FedEx, and it doesn't seem like I have the personal recs to make that a high Pk thing.

2) Should I consider the regionals? This seems like such a step backwards, but it would get me my hours I guess

3) Should I just try to stay active duty and fly for another year? Test guys don't get as many hours as they should, and my family is tired of living out in the desert

I've got 7 days to make a decision to stay in the AF or turn down school, and I'd love to hear what your thoughts are.

Seems like option 2 is your best bet. Maybe try one of the AA wholly owned regionals since they pay as much or more than the legacies right now anyways. 

 

5 minutes ago, tac airlifter said:

…your COA2…

Hopefully the airlines will beat that vernacular out of you 🤣

[Muscle2002]

49 minutes ago, archer said:

Hello, long time lurker here, and I'd love to pick your guys' brains if you have a second. My background is a fighter test guy with approximately 1300 hours TT approaching my commitment in about a year. Almost all of my hours are single-seat, PIC. I got IDE this year, but am leaning towards turning that down and going part time guard/reserve (most likely non-flying) and transitioning to the airlines. The task of actually making the majors, though, sounds hard, as I don't have an ATP.

1) Should I just pony up 20k over the next year to blow through the 150-200 hours I need to hit 1500? That would get me my ATP mins, which is basically the only thing that I don't have for the majors. I don't know of many airlines that do a military conversion other than FedEx, and it doesn't seem like I have the personal recs to make that a high Pk thing.

2) Should I consider the regionals? This seems like such a step backwards, but it would get me my hours I guess

3) Should I just try to stay active duty and fly for another year? Test guys don't get as many hours as they should, and my family is tired of living out in the desert

I've got 7 days to make a decision to stay in the AF or turn down school, and I'd love to hear what your thoughts are.

PM sent.

[CaptainMorgan]

Hello, long time lurker here, and I'd love to pick your guys' brains if you have a second. My background is a fighter test guy with approximately 1300 hours TT approaching my commitment in about a year. Almost all of my hours are single-seat, PIC. I got IDE this year, but am leaning towards turning that down and going part time guard/reserve (most likely non-flying) and transitioning to the airlines. The task of actually making the majors, though, sounds hard, as I don't have an ATP.
1) Should I just pony up 20k over the next year to blow through the 150-200 hours I need to hit 1500? That would get me my ATP mins, which is basically the only thing that I don't have for the majors. I don't know of many airlines that do a military conversion other than FedEx, and it doesn't seem like I have the personal recs to make that a high Pk thing.
2) Should I consider the regionals? This seems like such a step backwards, but it would get me my hours I guess
3) Should I just try to stay active duty and fly for another year? Test guys don't get as many hours as they should, and my family is tired of living out in the desert
I've got 7 days to make a decision to stay in the AF or turn down school, and I'd love to hear what your thoughts are.

R-ATP might be good enough. APC lists Alaska as 1200 in high-performance military aircraft. If not, regionals would not be a bad option given their recent pay increases (not just limited to AA RJs, Mesa increased theirs, and I thought I saw something about Horizon too).

Edit to add: Is that 1300 counting your UPT time?
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[HossHarris]

The 1500 hours is an FAA min for an unrestricted ATP.  So “airline conversion factors” aren’t a factor in your total for that. But some sim time does count. So get smart on the FAA rules and whether or not the sims you’ve been in count for FAA times. 
 

don’t forget your UPT time counts towards your 1500 hours. That’s usually about 200 hours or so. 
 

That being said, another 200 hours would be easy to get in a UPT/IFF tour … maybe a viable backup if you can get all your shit in a sock to get to a regional before you officially separate.  And it would give you time to better plan your exit.  Doing it as a reserve/ang dude would be even better. 

but would delay your line number a bit vs coa2
 

 

Edited September 13, 2022 by HossHarris

[Guardian]

I thought AA has hired mil pilots with sub 1000 hours as long as you can check the fighter pilot, test pilot, or weapons officer box.

[archer]

2 hours ago, tac airlifter said:

Very illuminating posts on commuting, thank you!

Archer, I’ve recently met several folks in similar situations you describe.  They’ve mostly executed your COA2 successfully and transitioned into larger carriers quickly (6 months).  This is a great hiring environment.  Good luck!

ETA: in your shoes I’d turn down school & bounce— wars over.  Lol, I just turned down SDE myself.

Thanks! I had no idea that the turnaround could be 6 months. Every regional I've checked out (although I have barely started looking) seems like they want you to sign for 2+ years, which sounds like a drag.
 

54 minutes ago, HossHarris said:

don’t forget your UPT time counts towards your 1500 hours. That’s usually about 200 hours or so. 

The 1300 hours includes UPT time and ~100 hours of civilian time. I wish we got to fly more...

58 minutes ago, HossHarris said:

That being said, another 200 hours would be easy to get in a UPT/IFF tour … maybe a viable backup if you can get all your shit in a sock to get to a regional before you officially separate.  And it would give you time to better plan your exit.  Doing it as a reserve/ang dude would be even better. 

Yeah, I very rapidly am starting to come to the conclusion that the ANG is something I need to look into more. From the limited reaching out I've done, it seem hard to get hired back to a CAF guard/reserve position after going into the test world for a few years.