The new airline thread

[HuggyU2]

Archer,

I believe that you only need 750 hours since you're Mil trained.  Not 1500.  

If you and the family love the idea of where you will go for the next year or two, and the possibility of going to SAAS... and then staff and/or back to a leadership role at EDW or Pax, then you should think long and hard about staying on active duty.  

If you go airlines, one of the Big 6 will grab you very quickly.  

In any case, you need to do your homework.  And talk to your buds.  You don't live in a vacuum.  You should know this by now:  

R-ATP Requirements (Military Experience):

• Be 21 years of age
• Must be either;
  • A honorably discharged military pilot
  • Or, provide a record showing the pilot is still currently serving in the military
  • Or, a foreign airline transport pilot license with instrument privileges
• Received a rating qualifying them as a military pilot
• Have logged 750 hours of flight time

 

Commuting:

As someone who went to 4 high schools in 4 years, I don't have much understanding when someone says "but little Billy will be distraught if he has to change schools during 7th grade!".  

If little Billy drives the fight, then so be it.  Enjoy your commute for the next 30 years.  

Edited September 13, 2022 by HuggyU2

[AirGuardianC141747]

3 hours ago, HuggyU2 said:

Commuting:

As someone who went to 4 high schools in 4 years, I don't have much understanding when someone says "but little Billy will be distraught if he has to change schools during 7th grade!".  

If little Billy drives the fight, then so be it.  Enjoy your commute for the next 30 years.  

JeremiahWeed fantastic insider information on FedEx commuting possibilities. I would commute to MEM as Memphis definitely ain’t for everyone. I can actually drive to MEM and it’s one of our bases now for just a couple of years is a guess, but I choose to fly elsewhere. Crazy times. 
*Need a Singapore fix that would be nice. Going to have to hunt for that one next year.

HuggyU2, I nearly fell off my couch with the “little Billy” CINC, but as you said that’s their future. Father wasn’t even military and we moved numerous times to include High School overseas. Tough, but what an eye opener that was plus fluent in Japanese and better for it. International is my game as the bug started early at a very young age, it’s not for everyone but don’t knock it til you tried it. Everyone is different no doubt and after nearly a quarter century of service moving here and there our favorite locations including where most of our families reside (former shangri las) have turned to crapola as well. No outfit serves our priorities (not big city folk any longer) so commuting is a must, but thankfully no worries no headaches in our case. Definitely envy those who have the blessing of both but sometimes it’s just not in the cards for some. 
 

 

Edited September 13, 2022 by AirGuardianC141747

[tac airlifter]

6 hours ago, HuggyU2 said:

Commuting:

As someone who went to 4 high schools in 4 years, I don't have much understanding… 

If little Billy drives the fight, then so be it.  Enjoy your commute for the next 30 years.  

 Huggy, I now care for my elderly widowed mother who would struggle with relocation. 

 I have 20 years of flying left, definitely don’t want to commute that whole time, but will happily do so if required to achieve larger life objectives.  Cheers.

Edited September 13, 2022 by tac airlifter

[HuggyU2]

3 hours ago, tac airlifter said:

 Huggy, I now care for my elderly widowed mother who would struggle with relocation. 

And that's an honorable and loving thing to do  I salute you  

My comment about "moving the kids" certainly doesn't apply to your situation  And I know of many other situations it doesn't apply to  

In my case, the last move we made was because my dad had MS and couldn't deal with the cold where we were lived.

My comment was not designed to be insensitive. It was food for thought for those weighing their kids' resiliency in a move versus dealing with a career of airline commuting and the inevitable toll it will take on your time away from those very kids  

 

 

 

Edited September 13, 2022 by HuggyU2

[tac airlifter]

7 minutes ago, HuggyU2 said:

My comment was not designed to be insensitive. It was food for thought for those weighing their kids' resiliency in a move versus dealing with a career of airline commuting and the inevitable toll it will take on your time away from those kids  

100% valid!

PM sent.

[FourFans]

3 hours ago, HuggyU2 said:

My comment was not designed to be insensitive.

I identify as as someone who thinks you're lying, therefore you're lying, and I'm hurt.  Deeply, tragically, and pronounally.  You should prostrate yourself, celebrate my victimhood, and buy us all a puppy.  

[FourFans]

16 hours ago, archer said:

Hello, long time lurker here, and I'd love to pick your guys' brains if you have a second. My background is a fighter test guy with approximately 1300 hours TT approaching my commitment in about a year. Almost all of my hours are single-seat, PIC. I got IDE this year, but am leaning towards turning that down and going part time guard/reserve (most likely non-flying) and transitioning to the airlines. The task of actually making the majors, though, sounds hard, as I don't have an ATP.

1) Should I just pony up 20k over the next year to blow through the 150-200 hours I need to hit 1500? That would get me my ATP mins, which is basically the only thing that I don't have for the majors. I don't know of many airlines that do a military conversion other than FedEx, and it doesn't seem like I have the personal recs to make that a high Pk thing.

2) Should I consider the regionals? This seems like such a step backwards, but it would get me my hours I guess

3) Should I just try to stay active duty and fly for another year? Test guys don't get as many hours as they should, and my family is tired of living out in the desert

I've got 7 days to make a decision to stay in the AF or turn down school, and I'd love to hear what your thoughts are.

PM Sent

[BashiChuni]

5 hours ago, FourFans130 said:

I identify as as someone who thinks you're lying, therefore you're lying, and I'm hurt.  Deeply, tragically, and pronounally.  You should prostrate yourself, celebrate my victimhood, and buy us all a puppy.  

Here here I am triggered by your micro aggressions huggy! 🤭

[BashiChuni]

22 hours ago, archer said:

Hello, long time lurker here, and I'd love to pick your guys' brains if you have a second. My background is a fighter test guy with approximately 1300 hours TT approaching my commitment in about a year. Almost all of my hours are single-seat, PIC. I got IDE this year, but am leaning towards turning that down and going part time guard/reserve (most likely non-flying) and transitioning to the airlines. The task of actually making the majors, though, sounds hard, as I don't have an ATP.

1) Should I just pony up 20k over the next year to blow through the 150-200 hours I need to hit 1500? That would get me my ATP mins, which is basically the only thing that I don't have for the majors. I don't know of many airlines that do a military conversion other than FedEx, and it doesn't seem like I have the personal recs to make that a high Pk thing.

2) Should I consider the regionals? This seems like such a step backwards, but it would get me my hours I guess

3) Should I just try to stay active duty and fly for another year? Test guys don't get as many hours as they should, and my family is tired of living out in the desert

I've got 7 days to make a decision to stay in the AF or turn down school, and I'd love to hear what your thoughts are.

Strike while the hiring iron is hot NOW. Keep a foot in the door with a guard/reserve job as economic insurance. 
 

you’ve got the next 30 years to plan for and seniority is a huge QOL multiplier. 

[Springer]

On 9/8/2022 at 5:02 PM, SocialD said:

 

 

Asking for the docs isn't a big deal.  I actually show up to every JS with them all out and ready to show, as this is what I was taugh by my LCA when I was at AAL.  But the uniform part, thats dumb...I'm guessing an ATL guy?  

 

 

 

Yes sir, there are plenty...as with most things, a vast majority of the time, it's an ATL Captain.  

Keep in mind that there are two Delta's.....North and South.

[Springer]

On 9/12/2022 at 9:01 AM, JeremiahWeed said:

With commuting likely in your future, I strongly suggest you consider FedEx.  It's got one of the most commuter friendly systems in the industry.  Some specifics:

First, for trips that actually leave from your domicile, there are few if any "non-commutable trips".  There's an AM launch and a PM launch and with very few exceptions, the inbound flights you would be jump seating on are timed to arrive for the sort to put the rubber dogshit on those outbound flights.

If you're actually commuting to domicile on one of our own jump seats to an AM launch (for example) it doesn't matter where you're coming from.  As long as your city is served by a FedEx flight, there will be a jump seat flight you can ride in that will match up with the outbound that's the first flight of your trip.  By "match", I mean your arrival in domicile on the jump seat will be within 2-3 hours of your trip's scheduled show time.

Jump seats are reservable up to 3-weeks in advance on a first come, first served basis.  Once you have a reservation, it's yours.  Unless you're trying to commute out of DEN, ORF or some other high density, high demand cities, getting a jump seat reserved is a non event.

But, the nice thing is that a huge percentage of the trips start with a deadhead, so a jump seat reservation is unnecessary.  The company buys you a ticket to city X for a certain price.  If you already live in city X (best scenario) then you have no need for the ticket.  You cancel the deadhead and show up for the revenue flight out of that city after getting paid all day to stay at home.  If you don't want to leave your car at the airport all week, you can use some of the ticket money you didn't spend to get an uber or limo to take you to work from your house.  Many trips also end with a deadhead which allows the pilot to do the same in reverse if he lives in city X.

The more common scenario is that a pilot will use the deadhead money to buy a ticket from his home airport to the city from which the first revenue flight leaves.  Possibly the same at the back end of the trip as well.  It's very common that a pilot who can hold front and back deadhead trips (called "double deadheads") rarely sets foot in his actual domicile.

This is not a unicorn scenario only for the very senior.  I helped another Eagle bud get hired 18 months ago.  He lives in Vegas and went to the 757 for QOL and seniority.  After 6-months, he was able to avoid reserve and regularly get front deadhead trips to the west coast.  Now when he goes to work, it's usually via a front-end deadhead to Vegas, Reno, Oakland or some other west coast city.  He's in one of the spots in the crash pad I run in MEM and I don't think I've seen him there for more than one night in the last 9-months (aside from his recurrent month).

Just like the front end, the back of trips that require you to arrive in domicile will almost always have an outbound flight back to your home city.  Some of the rubber dogshit you (or someone else) brought in on the last flight of your trip has to go to your home city.  After a couple hours or less of sort time, you jump on a jump seat back to your home town and call it a trip.

With a little seniority, the number of commutes each month is usually a max of two.  The gold standard for a domestic schedule is week-on, week-off.  International flyers can reduce that commute frequency to once a month if they're willing to work a single 12-14 day trip.  With the deadhead tickets and deviation options, most, if not all commutes are on a positive space ticket paid for by the company with full pay for your time spent getting to work.

I realize the cargo dark side is not for everyone but make sure you're getting an accurate perspective on what it's really like and not what you assume or what someone in the pax biz has decided it is.  I've done both types of flying and I can say without a doubt that the schedules at FedEx are easier and way more commuter friendly than anything I did at UAL.

I'm an international junkie and I'm in a 5-star hotel in Singapore as I type this.  My last duty day today was a one hour flight from Penang, Malyasia to Singapore.  Tomorrow I will deviate and forgo the scheduled deadhead on UAL from here back to SFO (my current base).  Instead I will take my airline of choice (AA) back to the US via Tokyo and Dallas.  It's a long day but some decent food, premium booze and a lay flat bed in business class will make it tolerable.  I went to work on 29 Aug on another commercial deadhead to Singapore and will be home on 13 Sep.  In those 2-weeks, I flew 12 revenue flights for a total of 32.5 block hours.  Aside from the deadhead duty from/to the US, my longest duty day was 8 hours.  That's my month.  I have the rest of the month off and if I choose to bid a schedule that starts mid-October will have more than a month off without any vacation.  I have not broken through 50% in my current seat (767 Captain) and have spent most of my career at about 60% in my seats where I am now.  It's not difficult to get these schedules, especially if you're willing to fly internationally and spend bigger chunks of time on the road.  Or you can stay domestic and seek QOL in the junior equipment like my Vegas bud.  There are pros and cons, but I'm flying with 30-year old new hires who will be 777 Captains before they hit 40 if they want. We have 5 year 767 Captains.  There's something to be said for a pilot being able to spend the last 20-25 years of their career in the left seat of the top earning aircraft.  Worth considering.  If you want more info, let me know.

Great summation.  Back in the day my wife was a MEM based NWA/DAL CSA that gave priority and took really good care of the FE pilots commuting and flying off line.

[archer]

Thanks all for the advice, appreciate that there is a forum of experienced aviators that will dole out words of wisdom.

[SocialD]

19 hours ago, Springer said:

Keep in mind that there are two Delta's.....North and South.

 

How could I not?!?!   ....deltaS 989!  ...you North or South?   ...SOPA/SMAC was great!  ...Delta sold off the whales to kill everything NW!  ...you know we were the launch customer for the 787!  ...can't make no money with cargo!   ...well, we had all the money, that's why they bought us!  ...we did things so much better at X airline!  You'd think after staring out the window for an hour and saying nothing but "uh-huh" and "that's crazy," would make them catch the hint lol.  Thankfully it wasn't all that many and it's certainly not an issue now that I'm in the left seat and mostly fly with newhires, but damn some of those dudes can't let shit go.

 

 

 

[Blue]

4 hours ago, SocialD said:

  ...we did things so much better at X airline! 

Thankfully it wasn't all that many and it's certainly not an issue now that I'm in the left seat and mostly fly with newhires, but damn some of those dudes can't let shit go.

I've had the pleasure of working with folks from a couple different carriers that went away via mergers, albeit corporate types, not pilots.  It's been interesting to see the differences.

The former Continental folks were all incredibly proud of what they had accomplished at their former carrier.  Their bags and backpacks often had a tag emblazoned with "Ex-Con" and the Continental logo.  Mechanics had similar stickers on their toolboxes.  Newark was longtime Continental stronghold, and as late as 2013 (three years post merger), there was a Continental flag the size of a small house hanging on the wall in the hangar, and all the mechanics still had Continental logos on their uniforms.  Legend has it that all changed very quickly when some higher-up took a tour of the hangar and subsequently blew a gasket.

All those ex-Con folks were incredibly proud of "where they came from," and the afterglow of the halcyon days of Gordon Bethune were evident.  At the same time, they didn't come across as any kind of "know-it-alls."  More just proud of their heritage, and occasionally privately shaking their head at some of United's post-merger stumbles.  Very much keeping with the polite, South Texas heritage of the former Continental HQ in Houston TX.

The former Northwest folks didn't really have any kind of outward displays of their former employer.  The odd decal here and there was about it.  And they (mostly) didn't immediately revert to bellowing "well back in Minneapolis...." when in a meeting.  But get those folks in private, hoo boy!

Northwest Airlines was God's fucking gift to the airline industry.  They were breaking new ground every time they stepped into the hangar in the morning.  Every single employee from top to bottom was the world's leading expert in their field.  There was no higher pinnacle in the industry than being employed by Northwest Airlines.  A janitor in Minneapolis was superior to a Director at any other airline.  Their way was the best way, and anyone who even approached questioning it was deemed a fool.

It was very keeping with their humble, but incredibly passive-aggressive Upper Midwest ways.  The corollary to "Minnesota Nice" is often "Minnesota Passive Aggressive and Back-Stabby."

All the ex-United folks seemed to be merely happy to have a job, and quietly reflecting on how the proceeds from selling their 1,200 sq ft home in San Fran was able to buy a mini-estate in the Chicago suburbs.

Airline history, and how some people make it part of their identity, is a weird aspect of the industry.

Edited September 15, 2022 by Blue

[Jimbo]

Does anyone know if there’s a chance to get a waiver for a history of psychosis ocd major depression and anxiety ? No meds succesful life test

[FourFans]

7 hours ago, SocialD said:

...but damn some of those dudes can't let shit go.

It's not that they can't let it go, it's that you just don't understand.  You weren't there.  You wouldn't know...

 

If I had a nickel for every time I've been told something like that in the past two years...

Edited September 15, 2022 by FourFans130

[SocialD]

17 hours ago, Jimbo said:

Does anyone know if there’s a chance to get a waiver for a history of psychosis ocd major depression and anxiety ? No meds succesful life test

 

 

Federal Air Surgeon's Medical Bulletin.  Check out the first article in the bulletin.  I listened to Dr. Susan Northrup speak at the National Stearman Fly-in last week, where she spent quite a bit of time on mental health.  Bottom line, like so many other things that were auto-DQ in the past, mental health special issuances are a thing.  She did say there were a few conditions that just weren't going to make it (mentioned in the article), but she made it clear that she's less worried about the pilots who are seeking/getting help than the one who says nothing and goes untreated.   I wish you (or whomever you're asking for) the best of luck and continued success.

 

To continue with this, I'm actually surprised by the stuff that is getting approved now.  Last month, I flew with an LCA who was approved to fly as a type 2 diabetic.  I wish could find her slides from the presentation because it had great stats all the various conditions that were getting approval.  She appears to be going to great lengths to make the entire process more transparent and user friendly.  Hope she's successful.   

[FourFans]

21 hours ago, SocialD said:

I wish could find her slides from the presentation because it had great stats all the various conditions that were getting approval.  She appears to be going to great lengths to make the entire process more transparent and user friendly.  Hope she's successful.   

Dude.  Find those slides!!!

If the 'men' I currently fly with are able obtain a FC1 at their age...with 'her slides'...i'll be amazingly able to fly at the age of 82 by the time I'm able to retire because of the amazing work of 'women/men/things/amorphous.animate.objects' such as her...

Edited September 17, 2022 by FourFans130

[FourFans]

3 minutes ago, FourFans130 said:

Dude.  Find those slides!!!

If the 'men' I currently fly with are able obtain a FC1 at their age...with 'her slides'...i'll be amazingly able to fly at the age of 82 by the time I'm able to retire because of the amazing work of 'women/men/things/amorphous.animate.objects' such as her...

Oh FFS.  If you'll laugh @Bender when he's drunk...laugh at me.  I taught that asshat how to fly and drink!

[di1630]

I saw that Horizon air starting FO pay us now as high as legacies…how long til legacy carriers bump up?

[SurelySerious]

Honestly? Probably not until they have hiring shortfalls. I mean AAL has been cutting its schedule by thousands of flights every month because they lack the pilots to fly it and apparently this doesn’t phase the corner offices one bit since they fly what they can at lower cost than getting a new contract done.

[Danger41]

https://www.cbsnews.com/amp/news/fedex-earnings-profit-slashes-outlook-as-demand-slumps/
 

Brutal forecast for FedEx. Anyone seen anything/heard anything on the flying side of the business?

[StoleIt]

18 hours ago, Danger41 said:

https://www.cbsnews.com/amp/news/fedex-earnings-profit-slashes-outlook-as-demand-slumps/
 

Brutal forecast for FedEx. Anyone seen anything/heard anything on the flying side of the business?

UPS had a normal forecast so it is curious why the disparity.

It could always be a negotiating tactic by management against their work groups.

[SurelySerious]

UPS had a normal forecast so it is curious why the disparity.
It could always be a negotiating tactic by management against their work groups.

Could also be the new CEO was looking for an excuse to cut those areas of business he just axed.

[AirGuardianC141747]

On 9/19/2022 at 5:02 PM, StoleIt said:

UPS had a normal forecast so it is curious why the disparity.

It could always be a negotiating tactic by management against their work groups.

Definitely could be part of the negotiation thang, but they aren’t quite as parallel as folks think on how they focus their business practices.

UPS focus better not bigger and very strong optimizer in place. Purple cost cutting and heading this way perhaps. Their optimizer is not as bad but probably headed that way. Ground game seriously needs help. Our buy out will probably incur an optimizer of some sort blah! Only time will tell.