The new airline thread

[ItnStln]

6 hours ago, bfargin said:

All right, which one of you clowns just had to make it home?

 

His videos are good. 

[kaputt]

I realize most on here haven’t had to deal with the regionals, or at most made brief stops there, but I know there’s also a few of us floating around that are prior mil career changers who are in aviation now and doing it the civilian way to 1500 hours. 
 

So along that line, I’m looking for a little advice from the airline guys on here. Unfortunately, the music has essentially stopped right now at the regional level in terms of 1500 hour FO hiring. The regionals have a huge Captain shortage and newbie FOs are pretty much worthless to them right now being at least 1,000 hours away from the left seat. As such, the hiring has ground to a halt unless you are a direct entry Captain or can quickly become one. I got my apps in at Endeavor and the AA wholly owned as I was approaching my mins and it was radio silence. Decided to try some of the “lower tier” regionals as well like CommutAir, Air Wisconsin, etc… and it’s been nordo from them too. Several coworkers are getting the same lack of response too so it’s not just me. 
 

I currently teach at one of the IFT programs for the mil, I’ll not say which one to keep this somewhat anonymous. So the job is enjoyable and stable, but I have to imagine packing on piston engine time past 1,500 hours doesn’t do too much for the resume. Should I be looking at other opportunities like FedEx feeder cargo or similar, or just keep playing the waiting game for a regional to call? 

Edited January 31, 2023 by kaputt

[Stoker]

For what it's worth, looking at the internal numbers the great FO oversupply at the regionals should be gone by the end of the summer if not earlier. Of the excess FOs, it seems like about 25% are upgrading or leaving for an LCC every month.

[AirGuardianC141747]

On 1/30/2023 at 7:04 PM, bfargin said:

All right, which one of you clowns just had to make it home?

 

Ha, totally reminds me of British Airways Flight 268? LAX to LHX (London Heathrow) across the Atlantic. Compressor stalls or something shut one down and continued all the way across the big pond on three engines. Certified yes, dispatch said go ahead, ended up in Manchester I think. $$$ drove that decision making process. Can you believe saving some cash regarding fuel dumping, but really a $250K plus fine for European airlines new regulation delaying five hours or something might have been incurred. 2005 quite a awhile ago…

*At least SmartWings had some concrete options. Not saying it’s smart!

Edited February 1, 2023 by AirGuardianC141747

[Prozac]

On 1/31/2023 at 12:14 PM, kaputt said:

I realize most on here haven’t had to deal with the regionals, or at most made brief stops there, but I know there’s also a few of us floating around that are prior mil career changers who are in aviation now and doing it the civilian way to 1500 hours. 
 

So along that line, I’m looking for a little advice from the airline guys on here. Unfortunately, the music has essentially stopped right now at the regional level in terms of 1500 hour FO hiring. The regionals have a huge Captain shortage and newbie FOs are pretty much worthless to them right now being at least 1,000 hours away from the left seat. As such, the hiring has ground to a halt unless you are a direct entry Captain or can quickly become one. I got my apps in at Endeavor and the AA wholly owned as I was approaching my mins and it was radio silence. Decided to try some of the “lower tier” regionals as well like CommutAir, Air Wisconsin, etc… and it’s been nordo from them too. Several coworkers are getting the same lack of response too so it’s not just me. 
 

I currently teach at one of the IFT programs for the mil, I’ll not say which one to keep this somewhat anonymous. So the job is enjoyable and stable, but I have to imagine packing on piston engine time past 1,500 hours doesn’t do too much for the resume. Should I be looking at other opportunities like FedEx feeder cargo or similar, or just keep playing the waiting game for a regional to call? 

Ameriflight has a UPS flow-ish thing going on: https://w3.ameriflight.com/ups-flightpath/

Not sure what our (brown) future hiring looks like. Things are kinda on pause for the moment, but you’d at least be checking the multi turbine PIC boxes. I’ve heard it’s a lot of work tho. Those guys help load the freight & can be doing single pilot IFR at night in some pretty gnarly weather and terrain. Not for the faint of heart. Maybe not for those mature enough to understand risk management either but might be worth a look. 

[uhhello]

Another close call

https://twitter.com/jxlars/status/1622010477520764928?s=20&t=yiuOLLelhR9IFhnCEJY_bQ

Edited February 5, 2023 by uhhello

[Hugo Stiglitz]

1 hour ago, uhhello said:

Another close call

https://twitter.com/jxlars/status/1622010477520764928?s=20&t=yiuOLLelhR9IFhnCEJY_bQ

Oof, freezing fog with midpoint RVR 600. Here’s the ATC tape…good stuff starts about 8:30 in:

https://archive.liveatc.net/kaus/KAUS3-Twr-Feb-04-2023-1230Z.mp3

Sounds like SWA was cleared from a holding short position with FedEx on a 3 mi final. A minute later when asked if moving they said “rolling now.” Then 30 sec later it sounds like maybe FedEx directed SWA to abort before announcing its go-around? Didn’t come from tower and SWA continued so I guess it wasn’t them…but sounds like it caused tower to lose SA on if SWA was airborne or on the ground. Good on the FedEx guys for having their spidey sense tingling as soon as tower cleared SWA for takeoff. Stay safe out there…

Edited February 5, 2023 by Hugo Stiglitz

[AirGuardianC141747]

Wow, that’s a very fortunate outcome. Later on after the issue at hand, it seems another controller takes over which is common practice after such an event. Thanks for sharing both the flightradar24 and the audio. 

[LJ Driver]

Wow, looks like FX flew over him at about 80 ft. Little tight. Not to mention a light 737 can easily outclimb a 767, and his wake was right on top. Could have been a runway collision, airborne collision, or major wake turbulence event here. 

[BashiChuni]

holy shit

[brabus]

From FAA order 7110.65…

”Separate an arriving aircraft from another aircraft using the same runway by ensuring that the arriving aircraft does not cross the landing threshold until one of the following conditions exists…”

1. “Landing aircraft is clear of runway”

2. “The other aircraft has departed and crossed the runway end. If you can determine distances by reference to suitable landmarks and the other aircraft is airborne, it need not have crossed the runway end if the following minimum distance from the landing threshold exists…”

And it goes into the distances required based on aircraft category. But, the point is the tower controller couldn’t have seen any landmarks due to RVR, so no way he was in compliance with this order. So, ultimately he fucked up by clearing SW onto the runway with FDX on 3 mi final. That said, this is a good lesson learned for us pilots - what kind of separation from an aircraft on final are you good with? What separation will allow you to operate normally and safely without pressure to “make it happen?” Clearly WX plays a factor and there isn’t one right answer. Good things to think about. 

[MexicanHouseRULZ]

Is this an actual e-mail from the APA PHL LEC?

Fellow PHL Pilots,

Below is a chart provided by Delta Management that outlines the disparity in profit sharing between Delta, United, and American. Since we are employed by American, we will only focus on the disparity between Delta and American Airlines. 

Not that we want to rub it in, but pilots at Delta will make substantially more than pilots here at American. This is even before Delta's industry-leading pay rates take effect. This disparity is only further worsened by this management's insistence that all wholly owned employees be included in the total profit sharing pool, which reduces the profit sharing payout for American Airlines pilots by about 10%. So even if this management team can figure out how to match Delta profits, we will still receive 10% less profit sharing as a result of the larger payout pool here at American. 

Many pilots have told us that improved quality of life is a "must have" in our next agreement. Since the release of the Delta TA, we have been consistently asked by our newer pilots whether they should remain here at American or possibly jump ship and head to the more lucrative and pilot-friendly Delta. While this determination is ultimately the decision of each individual, we can tell these pilots that if the past action by this management is any indication of how things will go, this "cost advantage on the backs of its pilots" management team will not change and will not come close to what Delta pilots enjoy as it pertains to quality of life. Let them prove us wrong. 

With this in mind, and thinking of our newer pilots with less than 5 years here at American, we thought it would be helpful for pilots to see the upgrade DOH for the two most recent Vacancy Bids at Delta. We have been told by newer pilots that they came to American because of the quick upward movement and upgrades. Not so fast! Delta's most recent bid includes upgrades after just a few months at Delta. Captain upgrades with less than 1 year seniority highlighted in yellow. 

A=CA B=FO 765=767-400 7ER =757/767-300

No one knows what our next contract will include, but we can't just ignore this management's history. Specifically, its unwillingness to improve work rules/quality of life. We know it will be difficult for even this management to offer anything less than the new standard when it comes to pay, However, we believe, unfortunately, that's where it will end. If you're OK with Delta $$ (at least initially) and spending the next 25-35 years of your life working with horrific work rules and little scheduling flexibility, then do nothing and just live with it. 

However, if bottom-of-the-industry quality of life isn't what you signed on for as a professional airline pilot, and quality of life is important to you, we strongly recommend you APPLY TO DELTA NOW AS A PLACEHOLDER, and at least start the process and get in line so if our management continues with their "just say no" approach, you're ready to make the move. As difficult as it may seem, think about where you would be (see charts above) if you had left for Delta a few years ago. We are not the only airline with significant upward progression. It's everywhere! Delta pilots hired in August 2022 were just awarded captain!! 

Don't just hope for the best; hedge your bet and Apply to Delta now. 

Finally, your representatives saw where prior negotiations were heading during the Spring of 2022. We were not Johnny Come Lately in opposing the failed TA; rather, we were very vocal in identifying the inadequacies early on, whether it was fighting to rescind the sub-inflation, Negotiating Committee's unilateral pay proposal reduction last Spring or voting against reducing our pay proposal by an industry lagging 50% in August 2022. We (and other pilot groups) understand the value of an airline pilot in today's environment and refuse to sell ourselves short just to get a deal. 

Paul DiOrio, Chair

Kevin Wilkes, Vice Chair

PHL-REPS@alliedpilots.org

 

Edited February 10, 2023 by MexicanHouseRULZ
add chart

[Clark Griswold]

6 minutes ago, MexicanHouseRULZ said:

Is this an actual e-mail from the APA PHL LEC?

Fellow PHL Pilots,

Below is a chart provided by Delta Management that outlines the disparity in profit sharing between Delta, United, and American. Since we are employed by American, we will only focus on the disparity between Delta and American Airlines. 

Not that we want to rub it in, but pilots at Delta will make substantially more than pilots here at American. This is even before Delta's industry-leading pay rates take effect. This disparity is only further worsened by this management's insistence that all wholly owned employees be included in the total profit sharing pool, which reduces the profit sharing payout for American Airlines pilots by about 10%. So even if this management team can figure out how to match Delta profits, we will still receive 10% less profit sharing as a result of the larger payout pool here at American. 

Many pilots have told us that improved quality of life is a "must have" in our next agreement. Since the release of the Delta TA, we have been consistently asked by our newer pilots whether they should remain here at American or possibly jump ship and head to the more lucrative and pilot-friendly Delta. While this determination is ultimately the decision of each individual, we can tell these pilots that if the past action by this management is any indication of how things will go, this "cost advantage on the backs of its pilots" management team will not change and will not come close to what Delta pilots enjoy as it pertains to quality of life. Let them prove us wrong. 

With this in mind, and thinking of our newer pilots with less than 5 years here at American, we thought it would be helpful for pilots to see the upgrade DOH for the two most recent Vacancy Bids at Delta. We have been told by newer pilots that they came to American because of the quick upward movement and upgrades. Not so fast! Delta's most recent bid includes upgrades after just a few months at Delta. Captain upgrades with less than 1 year seniority highlighted in yellow. 

A=CA B=FO 765=767-400 7ER =757/767-300

No one knows what our next contract will include, but we can't just ignore this management's history. Specifically, its unwillingness to improve work rules/quality of life. We know it will be difficult for even this management to offer anything less than the new standard when it comes to pay, However, we believe, unfortunately, that's where it will end. If you're OK with Delta $$ (at least initially) and spending the next 25-35 years of your life working with horrific work rules and little scheduling flexibility, then do nothing and just live with it. 

However, if bottom-of-the-industry quality of life isn't what you signed on for as a professional airline pilot, and quality of life is important to you, we strongly recommend you APPLY TO DELTA NOW AS A PLACEHOLDER, and at least start the process and get in line so if our management continues with their "just say no" approach, you're ready to make the move. As difficult as it may seem, think about where you would be (see charts above) if you had left for Delta a few years ago. We are not the only airline with significant upward progression. It's everywhere! Delta pilots hired in August 2022 were just awarded captain!! 

Don't just hope for the best; hedge your bet and Apply to Delta now. 

Finally, your representatives saw where prior negotiations were heading during the Spring of 2022. We were not Johnny Come Lately in opposing the failed TA; rather, we were very vocal in identifying the inadequacies early on, whether it was fighting to rescind the sub-inflation, Negotiating Committee's unilateral pay proposal reduction last Spring or voting against reducing our pay proposal by an industry lagging 50% in August 2022. We (and other pilot groups) understand the value of an airline pilot in today's environment and refuse to sell ourselves short just to get a deal. 

Paul DiOrio, Chair

Kevin Wilkes, Vice Chair

PHL-REPS@alliedpilots.org

It's real

[MexicanHouseRULZ]

Ouch.

[FourFans]

Wow

[Homestar]

7 hours ago, Clark Griswold said:

It's real

And it's spectacular.

[brabus]

Wonder what AA management does after that combined with (if) DAL ratifies the TA. 

[SurelySerious]

Wonder what AA management does after that combined with (if) DAL ratifies the TA. 

Ostrich pose is my prediction.

[SurelySerious]

AAL 321 under mx tow gets hit by terminal shuttle bus at LAX. https:// https://www.businessinsider.com/five-injured-at-lax-plane-collides-with-passenger-shuttle-bus-2023-2

[herkbum]

AAL 321 under mx tow gets hit by terminal shuttle bus at LAX. https:// https://www.businessinsider.com/five-injured-at-lax-plane-collides-with-passenger-shuttle-bus-2023-2

LAX ground ops are always an adventure


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[TreeA10]

Did AA recurrent training last month and they had a compilation video of vehicles hitting jets or almost hitting jets.  The total number of hits on aircraft was over 200.  My personal favorite was a high speed baggage tug dragging several carts and the driver makes a sharp turn thus throwing himself out of the tug.  And, as our intrepid driver collects road rash bouncing and rolling across the concrete, the now driverless tug and carts careen into another tug and carts.  I'm guessing we aren't hiring our best and brightest for these jobs.  But it is nice to know that those guys can just swipe a card to enter the airport secure area while 50% or better of pilots are getting tagged for additional screening.

[brabus]

1 hour ago, TreeA10 said:

But it is nice to know that those guys can just swipe a card to enter the airport secure area while 50% or better of pilots are getting tagged for additional screening

At this point fuck KCM, put the delay on TSA. 

[Clark Griswold]

Wonder what AA management does after that combined with (if) DAL ratifies the TA. 

As long as CAs keep flying premium solving their problems for them I doubt anything
Unless APA and the AA flight crews stop flying premium they (management) are not under enough pressure
Just my two cents from the outside on MLOA


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[TreeA10]

43 minutes ago, brabus said:

At this point fuck KCM, put the delay on TSA. 

FFDO training is great for increasing your handgun skills with the added bonus of telling the TSA to pack sand.

[brabus]

2 minutes ago, TreeA10 said:

FFDO training is great for increasing your handgun skills with the added bonus of telling the TSA to pack sand.

Seems like a PITA overall, especially international. But can’t say I’ve had an in depth Q&A with an FFDO living it.