The new airline thread

[SocialD]

8 hours ago, di1630 said:

How accurate is the “take hourly airline pay x $1,000 and that’s your pay” guidance? A guy told me that’s accurate for year 1 but then the reality after is much higher. Anyone have good data?

 

 

It depends....   Fly your schedule and go home, it's probably a safe bet.  Min sked kinda of guy and/or drop liberally and it's a bit high.  Hustle and fly premium and it's quite low.  Also profit sharing can skew the data a bit.  Min reserve guarantee (DAL) of 72 hours actually shacks the pay rate x 1,000 formula.   Min line guarantee of 65 hours = pay rate x 900ish.  

 

Pooter offers sage advice above.  I always advise guys budget on min line guarantee (or less) and use the rest as found money to pay for kids college, buy toys, hookers/blow, etc...  I keep my budget much lower than 65 hours, but I don't have kids and have a fair amount of rental income.  This made going from 330FO to 717FO a stress free event during rona.  I saw dudes freaking out because they "needed" to get 85 hours at 330 rates to maintain their budget....yikes!  

 

I'm trying to dig through years with little MLOA, but it's all a bit hazy.   Here are some real numbers for your data collection.  Actually, over on APC there is a year end pay thread every year.  Some guys get all butt hurt about it being a dick measuring contest, but I've always found it to be useful data if they give you deets.  I've always been jobs where anyone was free to see how much I'm paid, so talking pay has never bothered me.  

 

2022 - Pay rate Jan - Mar = $167/hr, Apr - Oct = $247/hr.  I only worked half of November before going on long term MLOA.  Worked the premium trip game pretty hard for 6 of those months but dropped liberally in July.  Ended at  $261k + $42k in 401k. 

 

20/21 - Too difficult to guess because of a deployment and down time from rona.

 

2019 - Pay rate was $208/hr.  Almost no premium, but hustled a little for more efficient trips.  Ended with $236k + 38K in 401k.  

[HuggyU2]

9 hours ago, di1630 said:

How accurate is the “take hourly airline pay x $1,000 and that’s your pay” guidance? 

It's close enough for starters. 

You will continue to get unsolicited financial advice on how you should be saving and what you shouldn't be buying, throughout your airline career as demonstrated on this forum repeatedly. You didn't get this far because you were stupid so just ignore it. 

[brabus]

A buddy just had an $18K month on first year pay, not counting 401K contributions and future profit sharing. That is not your average month, but it can happen. I know lots of guys grossing $200K first year, but they live in base and have quickly learned a lot scheduling tricks. If you’re a QOL above $ guy, you’ll probably be around the pay x $1k WAG (excluding 401K, PS, etc.)

[Lord Ratner]

19 hours ago, di1630 said:

How accurate is the “take hourly airline pay x $1,000 and that’s your pay” guidance? A guy told me that’s accurate for year 1 but then the reality after is much higher. Anyone have good data?


Sent from my iPhone using Baseops Network mobile app

It would have been x $1,500 for me last year, plus the 401k ($265k + $30k 401k) with an hourly rate of $169

 

But that's higher than normal. 

[Lord Ratner]

9 hours ago, HuggyU2 said:

You didn't get this far because you were stupid so just ignore it. 

Worst advice in the thread 😂🤣. I would say about 1/3 are terrible with finances, 1/3 are fine, but missing many opportunities, and 1/3 are good with money. There is no connection between career success and financial responsibility.

 

The number of junior and senior pilots having actual panic attacks in Apr-Oct 2020 over the potential for reduced earnings was a real eye opener.

 

Most pilots cannot get a non-airline job that would replace their airline income. Plan accordingly, and be intimately familiar with your LTD policy.

[HuggyU2]

6 hours ago, Lord Ratner said:

Worst advice in the thread 😂🤣. I would say about 1/3 are terrible with finances, 1/3 are fine, but missing many opportunities, and 1/3 are good with money.

Yeah, you're not wrong.  I fall into the "I don't know shit about investing" category.

But... mainly on other airline websites... I read posts where pilots get on their high horse and admonish other pilots for their "need" to have an 85 hour month.  Or they bad mouth this and that, and tell us how smart they are for doing X or Y.

And if it works for them, I'm happy for them.  But lecturing others is poor form.  Some pilots are living on the edge of their finances because they are taking care of a parent suffering from dementia... or devoting their efforts to a special needs child... or dealing with a painful and costly divorce.  Some have sick spouses that require treatments that exhaust life savings.  Life is tough for many people.  And before someone starts pontificating on how other pilots should be saving for college and how they should be more careful with their money... then they should stop... give thanks to God that they are not in a bad situation... and simply pray that others can find a way to become financially secure.  

Frankly, no financial advice given on this forum is going to make a difference.  As such... I will shut my fucking piehole before I offer my less-than-sage wisdom on the subject.  

Edited May 28, 2023 by HuggyU2

[Guardian]

Cheers to that! Well said. And on that note, have a great holiday weekend fellas.

[HuggyU2]

2 hours ago, Guardian said:

Cheers to that! Well said. And on that note, have a great holiday weekend fellas.

To those Americans, known and unknown, that died while serving this country.  

[Prozac]

4 hours ago, HuggyU2 said:

Yeah, you're not wrong.  I fall into the "I don't know shit about investing" category.

But... mainly on other airline websites... I read posts where pilots get on their high horse and admonish other pilots for their "need" to have an 85 hour month.  Or they bad mouth this and that, and tell us how smart they are for doing X or Y.

And if it works for them, I'm happy for them.  But lecturing others is poor form.  Some pilots are living on the edge of their finances because they are taking care of a parent suffering from dementia... or devoting their efforts to a special needs child... or dealing with a painful and costly divorce.  Some have sick spouses that require treatments that exhaust life savings.  Life is tough for many people.  And before someone starts pontificating on how other pilots should be saving for college and how they should be more careful with their money... then they should stop... give thanks to God that they are not in a bad situation... and simply pray that others can find a way to become financially secure.  

Frankly, no financial advice given on this forum is going to make a difference.  As such... I will shut my fucking piehole before I offer my less-than-sage wisdom on the subject.  

I’ll be the first to acknowledge that everyone’s situation is different and passing judgement on others is futile at best. That said, if you can’t live comfortably on guarantee, even with some extenuating circumstances, you’re probably doing it wrong. Ask your friends at brown and purple. The gravy train has abruptly ended for us and while the sky is certainly not falling, there are plenty of folks who had gotten used to it and are now struggling. I’m all for making hay while the sun shines. I’ve just found it’s best to understand that storm clouds tend to roll in suddenly and to plan for that eventuality. 

[SocialD]

5 hours ago, Prozac said:

I’ll be the first to acknowledge that everyone’s situation is different and passing judgement on others is futile at best. That said, if you can’t live comfortably on guarantee, even with some extenuating circumstances, you’re probably doing it wrong. Ask your friends at brown and purple. The gravy train has abruptly ended for us and while the sky is certainly not falling, there are plenty of folks who had gotten used to it and are now struggling. I’m all for making hay while the sun shines. I’ve just found it’s best to understand that storm clouds tend to roll in suddenly and to plan for that eventuality. 

 

 

Same!  Agreed with Huggy on lecturing, but I'll certainly offer my opinion to other looking in.  However, I won't feel bad for their plight after they just spent the pond crossing me telling me how they've been a WB Capt since 38, showing pics of their Porsche, Seneca (and Bonanza), their 200k+ backyard pool (house near a famous beach), their apartment in AMS...then lectured me on how we should support age 67 because they "need" the next two years.  These people exist!

[disgruntledemployee]

I try not to talk about money on the trip unless the other dude/ette wants to and usually it's more about future planning.  Other day on the van, some FAs are with us, and 2 dudes from another trip are complaining about this pay that didn't get done right, and that premium, and so on.  WTF, talk about the weather, pax fighting in baggage claim, or aliens.

And if anyone humble brags about their awesome pay month, I say they get the dinner/beers check.

[slc]

On 5/28/2023 at 8:48 AM, SocialD said:

showing pics of their Porsche, Seneca (and Bonanza), their 200k+ backyard pool (house near a famous beach),

This, and more......   seems to me to be a preponderance of non mil "c"aptains that love to show me pics of all the material assets they own as well as all the money they're forking out to fund junior's college experience.  Yawn.  No idea that the guy in the other seat had to fund his own way to higher education, enlistment, endless deployments, etc.  Maybe I was raised with a different outlook on fiscal responsibilities but it does get old.....

[HuggyU2]

5 hours ago, FourFans said:

to those born before 1960-65...

...please fucking die. 

...you dick holes

 

I'm not really sure what point you're trying to make...

... but how about you have a nice warm cup of go fuck yourself.  OK?  

No, really... Go 

Fuck

Yourself. 

Even if you're not double-jointed.  Try your best. No, i don't need pics to prove you accomplished this feat, like you would post of your barista-inspired latte tomorrow morning, or the latest version of a beet salad for lunch. 

Just do it. Quietly. And be gone. 

Edited May 31, 2023 by HuggyU2

[SHFP]

That's a "Shack" on FourFans Huggy....

 

[disgruntledemployee]

[Biff_T]

Hey Guys, Big Gulps….lol

[hindsight2020]

[Swizzle]

14 hours ago, FourFans said:

You weren't.  God knows that Your and My kids won't be. 

Welcome to being a Boomer 2.0   Boomer done right.

***to those born before 1960-65: I don't hate you, I just hate what you did to America.  Go retire, take all my money, and please fucking die.  We're starting over***

signed: someone who finally read all the fine print you signed but didn't read...you dick holes

 

 

9 hours ago, HuggyU2 said:

I'm not really sure what point you're trying to make...

... but how about you have a nice warm cup of go fuck yourself.  OK?  

No, really... Go 

Fuck

Yourself. 

Even if you're not double-jointed.  Try your best. No, i don't need pics to prove you accomplished this feat, like you would post of your barista-inspired latte tomorrow morning, or the latest version of a beet salad for lunch. 

Just do it. Quietly. And be gone. 

 

[FourFans]

Knock it off.  I let the lid off online.  That was wrong.

I had a severely grating experience with a virulently entitled older CA who decided to aggressively inform me that I need to work harder to pay 'my fair share' into social security so it doesn't bottom out on him.  It's not the first time I've been shit on by these older guys, and I lost it, and it came out via whiskey, a keyboard, and the airline forum. 

Seriously bad form on my part.  Post deleted. 

@HuggyU2, apologies for the hitting a sore spot.  Thanks for the sage words of direction.  I'm sure young huggy never shot off at the mouth or had the mayor throw a pool ball his way for buffoonery.

The fact that, of all people in all the demographics, a select set of older airline pilots decide to dump on anyone younger than them in the work force has been seriously rubbing me the wrong way.  But that's not an excuse.

I'll get back to leaving the drunken posting to others.

 

Oh the irony: ...an inappropriate and aggressive expression of frustration at getting generationally cornholed is met with "go fuck yourself".  I guess there's solace to be had.  I don't have to do it myself when someone else is already elbow deep.

Edited May 31, 2023 by FourFans

[HuggyU2]

Ah... the virtual squadron bar is an interesting place. 

Four Fans... you know I love you.  And I'm just having some drunken fun. Come to Beale sometime. Drinks are on me. 
XOXO. 
 

p.s.  I've taken my lithium and feel fine now. 
 

Edited June 1, 2023 by HuggyU2

[FourFans]

3 minutes ago, HuggyU2 said:

p.s.  I've taken my lithium and feel fine now. 

I think I'm gunna need that soon...

[SHFP]

Welcome back home FourFans.  

[JeremiahWeed]

I’m just glad you guys sorted this out so I don’t need to do this difficult math. I’m still trying to figure out how the “born before 1960-65” thing works.  Is it born before 1960, so the 61-65 is irrelevant?  Or if you’re a ‘64 guy do you have some stink on you too?  But less than the ‘63 guy?
By the time I came close to wrapping my head around that Huggy had stepped in to save the day. 😜

Edited June 1, 2023 by JeremiahWeed

[jice]

Wow. That deescalated quickly.

@HuggyU2 , I doubt he was talking to your generation anyway. We all really admire your efforts at the Meuse-Argonne and Vittorio Veneto.

[xaarman]

On 5/30/2023 at 12:46 PM, disgruntledemployee said:

I try not to talk about money on the trip unless the other dude/ette wants to and usually it's more about future planning.  Other day on the van, some FAs are with us, and 2 dudes from another trip are complaining about this pay that didn't get done right, and that premium, and so on.  WTF, talk about the weather, pax fighting in baggage claim, or aliens.

And if anyone humble brags about their awesome pay month, I say they get the dinner/beers check.

My idiot CA last trip was talking about his $100k retro check on the van to the hotel, in front of the driver, who I'm sure was making about $10/hr with no benefits. My one word answers made him talk more about the calculations, pensionable vs not pensionable, why not pensionable in prior years, but it's ok because net cost is so great.

Then tipped a dollar like usual.