The new airline thread

[icohftb]

Wonder if he disclosed it in his application

[Biff_T]

8 hours ago, TreeA10 said:

Didnt know a felony conviction went in the plus column on getting hired  

https://www.dailywire.com/news/jetblue-wont-hire-the-unvaxxed-but-hired-violent-felon-to-fly-planes

That dude couldn't get hired at a 7-ELEVEN.   This is pure insanity.

  "This is your Capt speaking, as we fly over the Grand Canyon I'd like to let you know I'm a violent felon, I even did 9 years in federal prison.  Relax and enjoy the rest of your flight. We should be on the ground in 2 hours".  

[Swizzle]

2 hours ago, icohftb said:

Wonder if he disclosed it in his application

Wonder if lead pipes can get through TSA carry-on checks!? Let alone “known” crew member check…

[SocialD]

This is where we are...this is how fucking stupid some are about this ridiculous shot bullshit.  No shot, you're worse than a violent felon!  The crazy part is that there are people out there who actually believe this.  They're the same people at the whole foods who stared me down for not wearing a mask (a few months ago)!  I hope I get to see their tears flow when the judges finally force the government to put the unvaxxed back in the system.   

[brabus]

Flew to OAK the other day, probably 80% of pax were masked (a strong contrast from literally every flight I’ve flown since the mandate ended). But it’s San Fran, so I guess I shouldn’t be surprised. I bet all of them would rather fly with the con than with an unvaxxed person.  

[nsplayr]

At this point not hiring people over the COVID vaccine seems dumb. Everyone either already got the disease or the vaccine or both or is magic…either way NBD.

BUT, it’s also dumb to punish felons to a lifetime of drudgery and poverty after they have served their sentence. I’m fully on board with hiring rehabilitated felons at a wide variety of jobs if they can meet the requirements anyone else would need to meet.

[HeloDude]

14 minutes ago, nsplayr said:

At this point not hiring people over the COVID vaccine seems dumb. Everyone either already got the disease or the vaccine or both or is magic…either way NBD.

BUT, it’s also dumb to punish felons to a lifetime of drudgery and poverty after they have served their sentence. I’m fully on board with hiring rehabilitated felons at a wide variety of jobs if they can meet the requirements anyone else would need to meet.

If two applicants are more/less exactly the same wrt experience/qualifications for a job, and one is a convicted felon and one is not, why would an employer hire the felon?  I sure as hell wouldn’t.

[CaptainMorgan]

If two applicants are more/less exactly the same wrt experience/qualifications for a job, and one is a convicted felon and one is not, why would an employer hire the felon?  I sure as hell wouldn’t.

Sua Sponte appreciates your attitude.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[HeloDude]

Just now, CaptainMorgan said:

Sua Sponte appreciates your attitude.

1) He’s a convicted felon?

2) Don’t care, doesn’t change my original statement…it’s an issue of risk.  How many violent criminals are repeat offenders?
 

We can have a discussion about prison/sentencing reform, judicial reform, rehabilitation, etc (probably better on a different thread), but as a business owner, you should do what’s best for the business, and that includes risk management.

[Sua Sponte]

1 hour ago, HeloDude said:

1) He’s a convicted felon?

2) Don’t care, doesn’t change my original statement…it’s an issue of risk.  How many violent criminals are repeat offenders?
 

We can have a discussion about prison/sentencing reform, judicial reform, rehabilitation, etc (probably better on a different thread), but as a business owner, you should do what’s best for the business, and that includes risk management.

No, I'm not. However, he's a retard without a law degree and displays Dunning-Kruger a decent amount on this forum. Felons usually have a hard time getting security clearances, can't vote depending on the state, own guns depending on the state (all of which I have and do). 

Edited November 28, 2022 by Sua Sponte

[pawnman]

8 hours ago, HeloDude said:

1) He’s a convicted felon?

2) Don’t care, doesn’t change my original statement…it’s an issue of risk.  How many violent criminals are repeat offenders?
 

We can have a discussion about prison/sentencing reform, judicial reform, rehabilitation, etc (probably better on a different thread), but as a business owner, you should do what’s best for the business, and that includes risk management.

As to question two... about 63%.

https://www.ussc.gov/sites/default/files/pdf/research-and-publications/research-publications/2019/20190124_Recidivism_Violence.pdf

[Blue]

Quote

In 2005, The Associated Press reported that Perrys, then an Air Force captain, was charged in Louisiana with burglary and assault with a deadly weapon while wearing a mask, and that he faced up to life in prison. Perrys allegedly entered the home of a judge and beat the judge’s daughter, who was his former fiancée, with a metal baton as she left the shower. Police said that when he was arrested, he was wearing a bulletproof vest and his vehicle contained knives, handcuffs, parachute cord, a shovel, and a mask, according to the AP.

Convicted felon, violent crime, nine years in prison?

I'm gonna go with: "There has got to be more to this story," Alex.

I want to know the background of his parents, and immediate family members.  I'm willing to bet Mommy or Daddy, or some close relative, has some kind of connections on Wall Street.  Investment banking, private equity, or similar.

Seen it before in Corporate America, although it's usually confined to someone's kid or close relation getting elevated through the ranks at rocket speed.

Whatever deal got worked, I bet they hadn't planned on it becoming a major news story.  Will be interesting to see where it goes.  So far, it's only appeared on The Daily Wire (on a holiday weekend, no less).

[Prozac]

Delta AIP out. Looks good for the rest of us from what I’ve seen. Nice going gents. 🍻

(United pilots need to start covering the double breasted sky gods’ bar tabs to cover the heavy lifting.😎)

[FLEA]

On 11/28/2022 at 5:49 AM, pawnman said:

As to question two... about 63%.

https://www.ussc.gov/sites/default/files/pdf/research-and-publications/research-publications/2019/20190124_Recidivism_Violence.pdf

Personally I don't care if they're a former felon. You can risk analyze that all you want but the data also says that felons are more likely to recidivate when they are denied gainful employment and reintegration into society. Who the fuck is going to go from a white collar employee, lawyer, or pilot to being a lawn care worker? 

Without the concept of redemption in our culture it means no one is better than their worst day. That's a sad world because it ignores the fact that many of us grow as humans and become more phenomenal the longer we are on earth. 

Edited December 4, 2022 by FLEA

[HeloDude]

47 minutes ago, FLEA said:

Personally I don't care if they're a former felon. You can risk analyze that all you want but the data also says that felons are more likely to recidivate when they are denied gainful employment and reintegration into society. Who the fuck is going to go from a white collar employee, lawyer, or pilot to being a lawn care worker? 

Without the concept of redemption in our culture it means no one is better than their worst day. That's a sad world because it ignores the fact that many of us grow as humans and become more phenomenal the longer we are on earth. 

Would you pay to have a convicted child molester watch your young children?

[FourFans]

1 hour ago, HeloDude said:

Would you pay to have a convicted child molester watch your young children?

Well, Joe Biden is our president, and I pay taxes, soooo.....

[FLEA]

1 hour ago, HeloDude said:

Would you pay to have a convicted child molester watch your young children?

I don't normally allow anyone to watch my children so your point is moot.  Regardless, people should be afforded the opportunity to redeem trust and gain confidence in society again. Child sex offenders have extremely low recidivism versus other types of crimes. Also lots of people permanently stigma'd to a list because their 17 to GF's parents didn't like her dating a 19 yo. Everything requires context and evolution of trust. You might not higher a prior child porn addict to be a school teacher but that shouldn't stop them from pursuing law, adult medicine, or even being a pilot. We tend to be stricter as a society with sex crimes because we see them as a perversion of impulse where the person is incapable of self control. However, that isn't the case with the vast majority of felonies and there is nothing specifically impulse triggering about flying an airplane. 

I work with a lot of justice impacted veterans now. We have hundreds of felons come through our national veterans treatment courts each year. The vast majority are decent people who are guilty of extremely poor decision making and often became entangled with drugs and substance abuse as a means with coping with some very hard realities that the DoD and VA will never do anything to help you for. The vast majority recognize their actions caused hurt to some people and they're truly remorseful for that. With the right guidance and mentorship most go on to be stalwart contributors to our society. Many of the best services to society were provided by people giving gratitude for the forgiveness they were given following something heinous they had done they were sorry for.

 

 

 

[tac airlifter]

Flea, I appreciate your principled altruism…. sort of.  But I do not want a convicted violent felon flying my family around the country when there are thousands of qualified alternate choices.  I wouldn’t care if this guy was a sim instructor (which checks the meaningful employment box and societal integration you mention).  

Odd risk assessment that JetBlue would hire this dude but not an unvaccinated pilot without a criminal past.

 

[AirGuardianC141747]

Concur, there are limits, standards, requirements, etc. even if there were no standup citizens/candidates. Boils down to judgment. Lack of significant judgment on the ground should never find itself with significant judgment required in the air or any other career requiring confidence especially regarding public trust. Now I wonder how many school bus drivers are legitimate felons. We are not talking shoplifting, etc., well maybe current $900 max shoplifting does apply? Willful harm to others physically, mentally without just cause should never be tolerated. Self defense sure, pure offense leave it on the field. One should have some elements of restraint or moral compass.

Edited December 4, 2022 by AirGuardianC141747

[Homestar]

21 hours ago, HeloDude said:

Would you pay to have a convicted child molester watch your young children?

straw man

[Day Man]

18 minutes ago, Homestar said:

straw man

welcome to BODN🍻

[HeloDude]

1 hour ago, Homestar said:

straw man

Not at all.  Dude literally said he didn’t care if someone is a former felon wrt hiring for a job.  I then asked him if he will hire a specific type of felon for a specific type of job.

[HeloDude]

21 hours ago, FLEA said:

I don't normally allow anyone to watch my children so your point is moot. 

You/your spouse has never paid someone to watch your children…like a baby sitter?  Do you homeschool as well?  If so, good on you…but most people have allowed their children at one point or another to be in the care of someone else who is not a close friend/family member.  And I don’t know anyone who would be ok with allowing a convicted murderer, rapists, or child molester to be in care of their children.  
 

Likewise I think we can find adequate applicants, who have not been convicted of violent crimes, to professionally fly planes with passengers.  

[Smokin]

21 hours ago, FLEA said:

The vast majority are decent people who are guilty of extremely poor decision making...

But this is the problem.  People who have a history of poor decision making, let alone extremely poor decision making, should not be flying plane loads with hundreds of people in them. 

I hope that people who have made poor decisions have the ability to recover from them and lead a productive life.  But there are decisions that will close doors.  If I ran a construction company, I would consider hiring an individual that had a violent criminal past if that person showed that he was doing everything possible to turn his life around.  But as a pilot?  Absolutely not.

[TreeA10]

Yeah, I want some dude "who just snapped" and attempted to kill someone in what can be a high stress occupation complete with the occasional personality conflict in a tight enclosed area. What could possibly go wrong?