The new airline thread

[ClearedHot]

I don't have first-hand information but some of the reports make it seem like a very heavy on the brake abort with the Delta jet stopping less than 1000' from the American jet.  Glad it turned out this way, curious to see what comes out of this situation.

[uhhello]

1 hour ago, ClearedHot said:

I don't have first-hand information but some of the reports make it seem like a very heavy on the brake abort with the Delta jet stopping less than 1000' from the American jet.  Glad it turned out this way, curious to see what comes out of this situation.

FAA confirmed 1000' separation at stop.  Sounds like the ground radar saved the day.  Next step for greater safety has to be some sort of automated communication to the aircraft in conflict versus an alert that relies on a human to hear/see the alert, then identify the conflict, then communicate to the conflicted aircraft?  

[Prozac]

2 hours ago, uhhello said:

FAA confirmed 1000' separation at stop.  Sounds like the ground radar saved the day.  Next step for greater safety has to be some sort of automated communication to the aircraft in conflict versus an alert that relies on a human to hear/see the alert, then identify the conflict, then communicate to the conflicted aircraft?  

A “follow the greens” system would probably be simpler & cheaper. JFK‘s taxiways are a mess, especially if you aren’t a regular. The Alpha/Bravo making a loop around the terminals & then becoming separate parallel taxiways is retarded. A cheap & easy immediate fix would be to simply rename them to something logical. Another would be to instill a little patience into the controllers. There are plenty of crews who only see that place once in a while & if you ain’t a local, it gets convoluted real quick there. 

[Lord Ratner]

Does JFK have the auto red lights for takeoff and crossings? 

 

Break break

 

The Delta TA is a game changer, and they would be absolute fools to vote it down. DAL management has clearly decided that predictability for this summer is more valuable than money right now. Voting it down will intentionally remove the primary leverage point that got the huge gains in the first place. There is also rumor that the mediator made it clear in no uncertain terms that failure to recognize (and pass) the "generous" offer would not be viewed favorably when deciding how to meditate any prolonged negotiations.

[Hugo Stiglitz]

15 minutes ago, Lord Ratner said:

The Delta TA is a game changer, and they would be absolute fools to vote it down. DAL management has clearly decided that predictability for this summer is more valuable than money right now. Voting it down will intentionally remove the primary leverage point that got the huge gains in the first place. There is also rumor that the mediator made it clear in no uncertain terms that failure to recognize (and pass) the "generous" offer would not be viewed favorably when deciding how to meditate any prolonged negotiations.

Out of curiosity for the DAL guys, any gripes from the pilot group? Any major asks that were inadequately addressed?

[nunya]

An older group nearing retirement wants/wanted a lump sum to make up for their terminated pension because they feel like they lack time to make up the difference with the “new” 401k system. 

Edited January 17, 2023 by nunya

[brabus]

Old grumpy guys are bitching, everyone else is pretty much good with it. This likely passes handily. Of course everyone didn’t get everything they wanted, but I think the majority see good gains and far more pros than cons. There are always people who think negotiations means one side (pilots) must win 100% of every demand or else it’s a fail; why it’s a shock that some things are a company win is beyond me. It’s called negotiating, not winner takes all in combat to the death. Curious to see ALPA’s pros v cons papers. 

[JS]

Yup, the last 2 posts pretty much sum up the feelings (at least the vocal minority online) of some of the so-called deadzoners who lost their pensions and are firing up a storm against this TA.  I think the other 60% of the company who was hired in the past 9 years is going to be OK with the agreement, along with a decent portion of the older guys, so it will pass overwhelmingly.  

I, personally, am a no voter for the sole reason that they deleted hundreds of "his/him" references in the contract and replaced them with "they/their."  That's hundreds of concessions if you ask me, LOL.  Kidding. 

[nunya]

One of the reps wrote a newsletter angry that it's not "full retro" meaning the full raise effective and back-paid to the amendable date.

A group is mad the pay rates are lower than the 2000 contract adjusted for inflation.

The health insurance isn't as good as FedEx and SWA.

The company 401k contribution is only 18% in a couple years and not higher. I've heard guys say they wanted up to 25%. The argument was that an old pension plan didn't require you to put money in, so they want the company to max 401ks for every pilot without pilot contributions. That's $66k for 2023, so you can easily max it out, but you have to make $367k for the company's portion to do it for you.

My gut says it'll pass easily.

[HuggyU2]

59 minutes ago, nunya said:

One of the reps wrote a newsletter angry that it's not "full retro" meaning the full raise effective and back-paid to the amendable date.

That's a point of contention I am watching at UAL.  

Every day the company delays getting a contract is another day of tons of $$$ they received because they are stonewalling.  The retro-pay must be addressed.  

Since UAL pilots get 16% toward their retirement, every day the company delays a pay increase means they don't pay the higher rate on 16%.  Will that be addressed too?  

I'm sure there are similarities at DAL.  

I am guessing DAL's progress will mean a very speedy result for UAL.

Edited January 17, 2023 by HuggyU2

[HossHarris]

2 hours ago, Lord Ratner said:

The Delta TA is a game changer, and they would be absolute fools to vote it down.

Are you a delta pilot?  
if not, you’re opinion will be marked down as “noted”

[nunya]

1 hour ago, HuggyU2 said:

That's a point of contention I am watching at UAL.  

Every day the company delays getting a contract is another day of tons of $$$ they received because they are stonewalling.  The retro-pay must be addressed.  

I completely agree, but I don't have a good answer. Do we kick it back and demand full retro because to accept less is a dangerous precedent? Do we take the pay and "get em next time?" What will the mediator say if we kick it back? I wasn't in the room, but my 69th hand information is that she wouldn't be thrilled. Does that even matter? Do we go to self-help over retro? I believe Congressional interference in the recent railway dispute bodes poorly for what little RLA leverage we had.

Like I said, I've got no answers.

Edited January 17, 2023 by nunya

[FLEA]

https://www.cnbc.com/2023/01/17/netflix-will-pay-its-next-flight-attendant-as-much-as-385000.html

 

Holy crap what does the flight crew make?!?! 

Edit: nevermind just went back and read it and the posting is listed with a salary range of 60k-385k meaning they fully intend to pay a PhD in aviation safety with 20 years of experience as the chief flight attendant at a major airline about $61k. 

Edited January 18, 2023 by FLEA

[Smokin]

When Congress basically told a bunch of blue collar railroad workers to pound sand and get to work, I can't imagine they'll suddenly take up the cause over for some upper-middle class white collar pilots.

It is a little funny that labor unions spend millions of dollars getting Dems elected, only to have the Dems completely ignore the union when push came to shove.  I flew with a CA one time that was almost yelling at me that "you have to vote with your wallet", which I found odd since he was telling me to vote for a party that is associated with higher taxes and more spending.

[Stoker]

26 minutes ago, Smokin said:

When Congress basically told a bunch of blue collar railroad workers to pound sand and get to work, I can't imagine they'll suddenly take up the cause over for some upper-middle class white collar pilots.

The freight rail unions going on strike would have crippled dozens of industries across the country that don't have any alternative to get their material inputs, and even getting within four days of the start of the strike would force all of the rail companies to take actions that would have ripple effects for weeks. A single airline union going on strike takes down one airline of many, with plenty of transportation alternatives as Southwest's latest debacle has shown.

[SocialD]

4 hours ago, HossHarris said:

Are you a delta pilot?  
if not, you’re opinion will be marked down as “noted”

 

He's not wrong though. 

[FLEA]

1 hour ago, Stoker said:

The freight rail unions going on strike would have crippled dozens of industries across the country that don't have any alternative to get their material inputs, and even getting within four days of the start of the strike would force all of the rail companies to take actions that would have ripple effects for weeks. A single airline union going on strike takes down one airline of many, with plenty of transportation alternatives as Southwest's latest debacle has shown.

How do you think Pete Buttigeig would advise the President? He's been extremely vocal on criticism against the airlines lately but has also made it clear that he doesn't tolerate disruptions to people's lives. I could see him going either way. (BTW, don't want to debate the quality of the guy, lol, just how he would advise given he has significant influence on the topic.) 

[uhhello]

 

[Lord Ratner]

7 hours ago, HossHarris said:

Are you a delta pilot?  
if not, you’re opinion will be marked down as “noted”

Isn't that how all opinions work here? I guess I'm new to the internet.

 

I don't think we have a single woman here who has opined on abortion.

Definitely no Ukrainians or Russians.

Not a single climate scientist or immunologist to be seen.

 

If I was unclear that I am not a Delta pilot, my bad. If your point is that only a Delta pilot could have a beyond "noted" opinion, then I am excited to hear how the Delta pilots managed to exist in a different macroeconomic environment than the rest of us at American, United, Southwest, etc.

 

I will reiterate. Your pilot group (are you Delta?) are fools if they pass on this TA in this macro environment. Especially in light of what the mediator said before Bastian & co. walked into the room.

 

And since I work with a pilot group full of fools, I can have an opinion on that too 🤣😂

Edited January 18, 2023 by Lord Ratner

[FourFans]

19 hours ago, Lord Ratner said:

And since I work with a pilot group full of fools....

Didn't know you were at American.  WTF is going on in your house bro.  After listening to the tapes that that JFK business doesn't looks so good.

Edited January 19, 2023 by FourFans130

[SurelySerious]

Didn't know you were at American.  WTF is going on in your house bro.  After listening to the tapes that that JFK business doesn't looks so good.

Company made a safety/CRM disaster at the beginning of the month, and they won’t own it.

[brabus]

3 hours ago, SurelySerious said:

Company made a safety/CRM disaster at the beginning of the month, and they won’t own it.

What happened? Only have seen snippets about changing cockpit protocol or other gray language like that.

[HuggyU2]

4 hours ago, brabus said:

What happened? Only have seen snippets about changing cockpit protocol or other gray language like that.

https://www.foxbusiness.com/lifestyle/american-airlines-pilots-reckless-cockpit-procedure-changes-safety

[StoleIt]

9 hours ago, SurelySerious said:

Company made a safety/CRM disaster at the beginning of the month, and they won’t own it.

And the majority of pilots rolled over and still departed on time rather than review the procedures on the clock...and now they floated their vacation against APA's direction. Our pilot group is too broken to save at this point IMO. I'm hoping the 7k retirements in the next 10 years might lead to better unity/cohesion within APA (or ALPA if that happens).

Edited January 19, 2023 by StoleIt

[brabus]

So they changed flows/callouts and handed them out on a pamphlet with a slap on the ass and a “go get ‘em boys!” Sounds awesome.