The new airline thread

[SurelySerious]

56 minutes ago, RTB said:

Can you imagine how hard it would be to keep Docs if their only options for assignments were Cannon, Holloman or Osan?

The Air Force may have some applicably similar data on that from sticking pilots at Cannon and Holloman. 

[viper154]

1 hour ago, SurelySerious said:

The Air Force may have some applicably similar data on that from sticking pilots at Cannon and Holloman. 

*sorry Meant to quote RTB that you quoted SS

 

I find the need for doctors at Cannon entertaining. We have the worst manned med group I’ve ever seen. Anything more than the sniffles or a sprained finger you have to make the hour and half drive to LBB. Child appointments take at least 2 weeks, same for women’s health. Dentist will only do a cleaning if your are doing a deployment outprocessing, no eye doctor for 6 months at least (there might be one now, I’ve been deployed a bit now). The regular doctor for the minions was just as backed up, week+ wait if something was wrong. Only office that was even close to reasonably manned was flight med. Wonder why? Maybe we do need to take care of the pilots? 

Edited December 8, 2017 by viper154

[HeyWatchThis]

To my knowledge that bonus list isn't the ONLY bonus docs are eligible for either.  Board certified for example gets another bonus too I believe....

[Guardian]

So back to topic. What happened to the old board?

[HuggyU2]

If it's gone, it's gone.  

Starting a new, clean thread has a lot of advantages.  And the info that has value will be back in no time.  

[FUSEPLUG]

5 hours ago, HuggyU2 said:

If it's gone, it's gone.  

Starting a new, clean thread has a lot of advantages.  And the info that has value will be back in no time.  

Good luck with that. While I agree hiring info gets stale over time, there is some merit in what was presented over those several dozen pages. I guess we can all now tune in to the noise over at APC while the BODN thread regenerates. 

[MooseAg03]

We need a new one, I need the motivation of the guys who were posting their monthly gross pay over the summer.

[di1630]

Alaska's new pay scale. Not sure where the $86 came from?

Sorry, $87.27.

[Napoleon_Tanerite]

Didn't see it posted yet, but just a friendly reminder that SWA hiring window opens on Dec 20th

[Hacker]

While the pay scale is an issue at Alaska, the lack of a scope clause is the substantially more problematic issue.

Look no further than AAG's whipsaw of Horizon vs Skywest over the last few years to see how Mr Tilden is happy to play his own company against subcontractors if it saves a buck.  Hopefully the addition of all the Virgin pilots to the seniority list will shake up the head-in-sand mentality of the high longevity AS pilots on scope.

[flyusaf83]

I’m wondering if I just hurt or helped my future self, when I’ll be applying for an airline gig in 3 years.  I’m a T-6 FAIP, where I picked up 1,250 hours, with about 1,100 IP hours.  I’m just finishing up an E-3 assignment, where I’ll end up with around 1,100 hours, with about 700 PIC hours.

I just got a RIP to be a PIT IP.  I’m really excited about the assignment, but I’m not sure how it’ll affect the quality of my resume.  I’ll end up with around 3,300 total time (including UPT and some civilian time), but only around 1,200 multi-engine (700 multi PIC).  The good news is around 2,000 of my time will be IP.

Is that a competitive experience level now? What about in 3 years?

TIA.

Edited December 14, 2017 by flyusaf83

[Buddy Spike]

20 minutes ago, flyusaf83 said:

I’m wondering if I just hurt or helped my future self, when I’ll be applying for an airline gig in 3 years.  I’m a T-6 FAIP, where I picked up 1,250 hours, with about 1,100 IP hours.  I’m just finishing up an E-3 assignment, where I’ll end up with around 1,100 hours, with about 700 PIC hours.

I just got a RIP to be a PIT IP.  I’m really excited about the assignment, but I’m not sure how it’ll affect the quality of my resume.  I’ll end up with around 3,300 total time (including UPT and some civilian time), but only around 1,200 multi-engine (700 multi PIC).  The good news is around 2,000 of my time will be IP.

Is that a competitive experience level now? What about in 3 years?

TIA.

 

With that resume, you'd be fine today.  In three years, airlines will be even more desperate.  

[Shamrock]

On the plus side. It seems like PIT is a great place to network and get the apps perfected. Every PIT guy I knew seemed plugged in to the hiring process more than the average AF pilot. 

Great at place too to work on/practice the technical stuff and GK for the Delta and Fedex tests. 

Edited December 15, 2017 by Shamrock

[Jaded]

UPT and IFF are great reserve jobs for airline guys too IMO. 

[di1630]

While the pay scale is an issue at Alaska, the lack of a scope clause is the substantially more problematic issue.
Look no further than AAG's whipsaw of Horizon vs Skywest over the last few years to see how Mr Tilden is happy to play his own company against subcontractors if it saves a buck.  Hopefully the addition of all the Virgin pilots to the seniority list will shake up the head-in-sand mentality of the high longevity AS pilots on scope.

Hacker, can you break down the scope clause and associated issues for dummies like me who don’t speak airline....yet.

[RTB]

8 hours ago, di1630 said:

Hacker, can you break down the scope clause and associated issues for dummies like me who don’t speak airline....yet.

Hacker can probably fill in the details better than me, but essentially scope clauses protect an airline's pilot jobs by controlling what kind of flying can be outsourced.

On the low end, scope clauses typically limit the size and number of regional jets that can be used (50 or 76 seats typically) and the number of seats total or routes that can be flown by regional pilots.  This ensure that a larger airline (Delta, Alaska, United, etc) doesn't outsource too much of it's flying to a connection carrier (Endeavor, Horizon, Skywest, etc).

On the high end, in simple terms, scope ensures the mainline carrier limits the amount of tickets it sells using Joint venture or Code Share airlines.  Again, it prevents the mainline from sending too many pax on Korean Air or Air France but on a Delta ticket.  Protects the widebody, high paying jobs at the mainline carrier.

[JeremiahWeed]

On 12/14/2017 at 10:42 AM, flyusaf83 said:

I’m wondering if I just hurt or helped my future self, when I’ll be applying for an airline gig in 3 years.  I’m a T-6 FAIP, where I picked up 1,250 hours, with about 1,100 IP hours.  I’m just finishing up an E-3 assignment, where I’ll end up with around 1,100 hours, with about 700 PIC hours.

I just got a RIP to be a PIT IP.  I’m really excited about the assignment, but I’m not sure how it’ll affect the quality of my resume.  I’ll end up with around 3,300 total time (including UPT and some civilian time), but only around 1,200 multi-engine (700 multi PIC).  The good news is around 2,000 of my time will be IP.

Is that a competitive experience level now? What about in 3 years?

TIA.

It may not be on your list of potential employers, but from what I understand, FedEx is holding to the 12.500 lb. GW aircraft regarding flight time.  Below is from their pilot credentials section:

1500 hours total fixed-wing time as pilot-in-command (PIC) or second-in-command in multi-engine turbo-prop A/C or jet A/C or combination thereof (GTOW 12,500). A minimum of 1000 hours total fixed-wing pilot-in-command in multi-engine turbo prop A/C or jet A/C or combination thereof (GTOW 12,500 or greater) is preferred.

[Buddy Spike]

AA just revised their projections for hiring down from 900 to 750 for 2018.

 

Highly recommend you get educated on the culture and union drama here before putting your app in. 

[DFRESH]

Folks - I've gotten to the bottom of the missing threads. As the big announcement on the front page reads, if you know who GEARPIG is, please PM me so I can get his/her contact info. Thanks!

[Guardian]

Folks - I've gotten to the bottom of the missing threads. As the big announcement on the front page reads, if you know who GEARPIG is, please PM me so I can get his/her contact info. Thanks!

How did you find that out?

[herkbum]

2 hours ago, DFRESH said:

Folks - I've gotten to the bottom of the missing threads. As the big announcement on the front page reads, if you know who GEARPIG is, please PM me so I can get his/her contact info. Thanks!

Thx for the craniums up and assist yesterday. 

[SocialD]

On 12/16/2017 at 4:27 AM, di1630 said:

Hacker, can you break down the scope clause and associated issues for dummies like me who don’t speak airline....yet.

Not Hacker, but scope is THE most important section of a contract (it's section #1 for a reason).  It's the section that lays out what flying MUST be done by company pilots and what can be farmed out to regional/joint venture carriers.  Without it, or with crappy scope, the company can farm out the flying to whomever they wish.  On one end of the scope spectrum you have SWA, who has pretty solid scope.   From my understanding, EVERY passenger who buys a southwest ticket is flown by Southwest pilots.  However, a person who buys a Delta ticket to say Copenhagen (I just ran a orbitz search) could end up flying on one of our regional carriers to ORD then Air France to CPH.  A ticket sold by Delta and not once are they being flown by a Delta pilot.  All the carriers (except SWA), have some form of give on scope, some more than others.  For the big-3, selling top end scope means fewer WB pilots, thus fewer of the highest paying jobs, and fewer pilots in general.  If/when you get to an airline and the union starts talking about selling scope for pay rates...be VERY weary.  Doing so can mean stagnation in your current seat or even maybe never seeing the left seat of that WB.  

[xaarman]

4 hours ago, Buddy Spike said:

AA just revised their projections for hiring down from 900 to 750 for 2018.

 

Highly recommend you get educated on the culture and union drama here before putting your app in. 

Can you elaborate? As a new hire there (awaiting class date) I'm pretty darn stoked. Other AA guys say the union/contract has it's issues, but it's worlds above better then anything Active Duty.

[Buddy Spike]

48 minutes ago, xaarman said:

Can you elaborate? As a new hire there (awaiting class date) I'm pretty darn stoked. Other AA guys say the union/contract has it's issues, but it's worlds above better then anything Active Duty.

AA has historically had the worst contract of any airline. Right now, we're in a post-bankruptcy JCBA with an incredible number of items not implemented (despite being over 3 years old). The contract itself was completely written by the company, with provisions that absolutely screw the average line pilot.

In the wake of all of the Christmas drop fiasco, APA had unprecedented leverage. Instead of capitalizing on it, APA president Carey acted unilaterally and secured a deal that only benefits a small number (200% for people who pick up "Designated trips"... meaning two people could be on the same trip and one could be flying his PBS bid for straight pay while the other gets 200%). He then made a "handshake agreement" for Length of Service for furloughed pilots and improved calendar day/duty rigs.

The company basically said "check's in the mail" and now we may be facing concessions (yes, concessions) to get either of those things despite the highest profitability we've ever had and the aforementioned leverage.

What that means is that going into 2019/2020 for the next contract, our union has proven weak and divided. It is unlikely we'll get an industry standard contract, much less industry leading. We are the world's largest regional airline.

We have a very fractured and splintered pilot group due to all the mergers and the "I got mine" senior guys on top. It's not going to get better until the retirements start happening, and even then I'm not sure it's possible. APA is by far the worst negotiating group I've ever witnessed (Famous for the line "We asked and they said no")

We may have the most upcoming retirements, but I think you'll enjoy better quality of life and more money over the course of your career at literally any other airline - unless we can completely flush the upper echelon of the union and start over very soon.

Some other things to consider as a new hire:

- You won't get 16% company contribution until one year on property.

- You cannot use sick leave in your first six months.

- Year 2 pay doesn't start at year 2. We have this goofy thing called Classification Date, which is the date you finish training. That means year two pay could be anywhere from 14-16 months from your date of hire, depending on how backed up training is.

- On reserve, you'll work 18 days per month. As a lineholder, you could work up to 20 for an 86-90 hr month. In January, I was awarded 86 hours with 11 days off. 

- Premium at AA is only 150%. 

- Our recovery obligation and reassignment rules are some of the worst. The company can take you up to 4 hours OR to 0159 home base time after your trip footprint, and the verbiage states "WHICHEVER IS LATER." For straight pay.

It's not all doom and gloom, but unless you live or want to live in an AA domicile, I would definitely consider all options or at least keep apps in at better airlines.

Just my .02. 

 

[DFRESH]

2 hours ago, Guardian said:

How did you find that out?

Because in the admin logs I can see that Gearpig was merged with another account and then both were deleted. Either the individual that is Gearpig had decided to create a fake account and then merge both and delete all previous content, or somebody was able to gain access to his BO account and then performed the merge and delete operation. The reason I'm trying to get a hold of Gearpig is to warn him that if somebody was able to get into his BO account, there's a high likelihood that it's because they already had access to his e-mail account.  Or to see if he had some kind of reason for doing such a strange thing and then leaving BO.