The new airline thread

[HuggyU2]

[hindsight2020]

Those are not real blondes. 

Break break---

I think its clear southwest is the pack leader when it comes to MLOA friendly ops. Some of the stuff I've been recently made privy to is straight up burger king. Good on 'em. 

Also, I personally love the insta switch from some airline guys the second  they make a nickle more per credit hour than their mil gig. To quote an old ART buddy of mine : "you know, for the best job in the world, these mother----- sure spend a lot of time hiding here.." . I think peter gave Jesus a better treatment than some of these guys do their squadron pay people the day after that 2nd year longevity pay anniversary lol. I still remember the lost decade, so I'm naturally inclinded not to ballwalk around a job that kept people paid during a trough, but to each their own. 

 

 

[xaarman]

1 hour ago, hindsight2020 said:

Also, I personally love the insta switch from some airline guys the second  they make a nickle more per credit hour than their mil gig. To quote an old ART buddy of mine : "you know, for the best job in the world, these mother----- sure spend a lot of time hiding here.." . I think peter gave Jesus a better treatment than some of these guys do their squadron pay people the day after that 2nd year longevity pay anniversary lol. I still remember the lost decade, so I'm naturally inclinded not to ballwalk around a job that kept people paid during a trough, but to each their own. 

 

 

Your username is really fitting for this post.

 

 

[Buddy Spike]

1 hour ago, hindsight2020 said:

Those are not real blondes. 

Break break---

I think its clear southwest is the pack leader when it comes to MLOA friendly ops. Some of the stuff I've been recently made privy to is straight up burger king. Good on 'em. 

Also, I personally love the insta switch from some airline guys the second  they make a nickle more per credit hour than their mil gig. To quote an old ART buddy of mine : "you know, for the best job in the world, these mother----- sure spend a lot of time hiding here.." . I think peter gave Jesus a better treatment than some of these guys do their squadron pay people the day after that 2nd year longevity pay anniversary lol. I still remember the lost decade, so I'm naturally inclinded not to ballwalk around a job that kept people paid during a trough, but to each their own. 

 

 

Would be less likely to ballwalk if the ARC could get a handle on paying people correctly and in a timely manner without having the member waste multiple days trying to get it unfucked. I know, I know.  Too much to ask.

[Gazmo]

Those are not real blondes. 
Break break---
I think its clear southwest is the pack leader when it comes to MLOA friendly ops. Some of the stuff I've been recently made privy to is straight up burger king. Good on 'em. 
Also, I personally love the insta switch from some airline guys the second  they make a nickle more per credit hour than their mil gig. To quote an old ART buddy of mine : "you know, for the best job in the world, these mother----- sure spend a lot of time hiding here.." . I think peter gave Jesus a better treatment than some of these guys do their squadron pay people the day after that 2nd year longevity pay anniversary lol. I still remember the lost decade, so I'm naturally inclinded not to ballwalk around a job that kept people paid during a trough, but to each their own. 
 
 

The mil gig kept people alive during the rough times, but it's a different ARC than it was 15-20 years ago. A lot of the dudes who had their bacon saved when they were furloughed after 9/11 were from the good old days when the Guard and Reserves were a flying club and we only went to places like Guam, Pisa, Cypress, Curacao.... you know, the real "rough" ones. Those were the times you could have fun and get a little stupid without it ending up on FaceBook a day later because one of your brown-nosing unit mates wanted to play buddyf#cker. Those were the days when straw after straw after straw breaking the camel's back didn't exist. Most of those dudes have since retired. Those are the ones, some of them at least, who managed to walk away with an AD retirement, an ART retirement AAAAAAAAAAAND walked right back into decent seniority and a $200,000 per year job. I know at least a half dozen guys like this from the lost decade who did very well for themselves while guys like me waited for a full time job at the unit. Timing is everything. I am in "ghost mode" now. I go to the unit a few times a month, get my shit done to stay off the bad boy lists, but for the most part, I try to spend very little time there. I think it's a case of senioritis, but with first year pay at $90+ an hour these days, fortunately I don't need the extra cash... just a few more good year's worth of points.

[hindsight2020]

2 hours ago, Gazmo said:

6 hours ago, hindsight2020 said:

Those are not real blondes. 
Break break---
I think its clear southwest is the pack leader when it comes to MLOA friendly ops. Some of the stuff I've been recently made privy to is straight up burger king. Good on 'em. 
Also, I personally love the insta switch from some airline guys the second  they make a nickle more per credit hour than their mil gig. To quote an old ART buddy of mine : "you know, for the best job in the world, these mother----- sure spend a lot of time hiding here.." . I think peter gave Jesus a better treatment than some of these guys do their squadron pay people the day after that 2nd year longevity pay anniversary lol. I still remember the lost decade, so I'm naturally inclinded not to ballwalk around a job that kept people paid during a trough, but to each their own. 
 
 

The mil gig kept people alive during the rough times, but it's a different ARC than it was 15-20 years ago. A lot of the dudes who had their bacon saved when they were furloughed after 9/11 were from the good old days when the Guard and Reserves were a flying club and we only went to places like Guam, Pisa, Cypress, Curacao.... you know, the real "rough" ones. Those were the times you could have fun and get a little stupid without it ending up on FaceBook a day later because one of your brown-nosing unit mates wanted to play buddyf#cker. Those were the days when straw after straw after straw breaking the camel's back didn't exist. Most of those dudes have since retired. Those are the ones, some of them at least, who managed to walk away with an AD retirement, an ART retirement AAAAAAAAAAAND walked right back into decent seniority and a $200,000 per year job. I know at least a half dozen guys like this from the lost decade who did very well for themselves while guys like me waited for a full time job at the unit. Timing is everything. I am in "ghost mode" now. I go to the unit a few times a month, get my shit done to stay off the bad boy lists, but for the most part, I try to spend very little time there. I think it's a case of senioritis, but with first year pay at $90+ an hour these days, fortunately I don't need the extra cash... just a few more good year's worth of points.

Agreed on all counts, and as a junior guy during the lost decade myself, you're preaching to the choir wrt the double retirement furlough gomers getting to have their cake and eat it too. I was just reminding the gallery these things go in cycles is all. 

[SocialD]

HS2020 is not completely wrong wrt the hiding out comment.  How many dudes do you know that got hired, consolidated then bounced to 2-5 years of orders?  Guys that can't be bothered most of the year, but have no issues finding themselves some orders during the holiday season?  Or never providing scheduling solid days of availability, but they sure know that they'll be out on 22Dec so they can drop that Christmas trip?  That said, in my experience, some of the loudest full time airline bashers end up twice as bad once they themselves found an airline gig. 
  

10 minutes ago, hindsight2020 said:

Agreed on all counts, and as a junior guy during the lost decade myself, you're preaching to the choir wrt the double retirement furlough gomers getting to have their cake and eat it too. I was just reminding the gallery these things go in cycles is all. 

I too was junior in the "lost decade."  The only cycle I've see in my 18 years is a steady decline that seems to be continually picking up steam on its way down the hill.  Things ARE worse and I'd venture to guess those types would still complain if they needed to come back on orders.  Having a job where shit just works and you get paid properly/on time has a way of doing that to a person.

[SocialD]

3 hours ago, joe1234 said:

I see no reason why anyone should ever feel guilty for min running their unit. The fact that we burn so many TP's on top of our normal UTA/AT requirement to stay current is plenty.

But if you're chronically NMR then yeah you need to shit or get off the pot.

Couldn't agree more.  I think the biggest issue out there is the expectations some squadrons put on their part times.  I would argue that, outside of TDYs, anything over 5 days/month is excessive for a part-time force...especially if one day is a no-fly drill day.  Some squadrons want up to 7-8 days/month which is beyond ridiculous and unsustainable.  What you end up with is group of full timers who think that's OK and consider anything else min runners.  I assume some squadron also got accustomed to this during the "lost decade," when everyone was begging to days/dollars.  We're just finally trying to get back to the way it should be...even part time SQ/CC and OG/CC are making a come back.

[gearhog]

Some things to consider. Funny how the FedEx VP is completely dismissive at 6:00.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Efs3PyR8iBw

[Hacker]

1 hour ago, torqued said:

Some things to consider. Funny how the FedEx VP is completely dismissive at 6:00.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Efs3PyR8iBw

What do you think the things to consider for someone looking at finding a career flying job are?

For some reason, a lot of people seem to equate the entrant of a new competitor into an industry to damage/destruction of the other competitors.

40 years after Southwest disrupted the passenger airline industry, (and deregulation opened the door to endless start-up airlines) there have and will continue to be fruitful careers in the legacy airlines.

[ImNotARobot]

10 minutes ago, Hacker said:

What do you think the things to consider for someone looking at finding a career flying job are?

For some reason, a lot of people seem to equate the entrant of a new competitor into an industry to damage/destruction of the other competitors.

40 years after Southwest disrupted the passenger airline industry, (and deregulation opened the door to endless start-up airlines) there have and will continue to be fruitful careers in the legacy airlines.

I think he's trying to say that if the robots don't take our jobs, then Amazon will do it soon thereafter. That may be slightly before AOC successfully removes all airplanes from the planet as a one-term genius Congresswoman. Queue the Doomsday clock moving ever closer to midnight. Guess the airline guys will be crawling back to the mil side with hat in hand...better go grab my hat. 

[M2]

18 minutes ago, ImNotARobot said:

I think he's trying to say that if the robots don't take our jobs, then Amazon will do it soon thereafter...

Speaking of robots, anyone else notice this?

Quote

A Navy Ship Sailed to Hawaii and Back With No One on Board

A 132-foot-long self-driving ship made history by traveling from San Diego to Hawaii's Pearl Harbor and back again without sailors aboard to guide its way.

The Sea Hunter, an autonomous trimaran developed for submarine hunting and counter-mine missions, traveled thousands of miles between San Diego and Pearl Harbor last month. Naval News was first to report on the ship's breakthrough voyage.

"The recent long-range mission is the first of its kind and demonstrates to the U.S. Navy that autonomy technology is ready to move from the developmental and experimental stages to advanced mission testing," Gerry Fasano, the defense group president at Leidos, said in the release...  (full article at title link)

 

[uhhello]

There is a good Joe Rogan podcast with a Pres candidate who is running on a platform of universal income due to the coming automation wave.  

[gearhog]

1 hour ago, Hacker said:

What do you think the things to consider for someone looking at finding a career flying job are?

For some reason, a lot of people seem to equate the entrant of a new competitor into an industry to damage/destruction of the other competitors.

40 years after Southwest disrupted the passenger airline industry, (and deregulation opened the door to endless start-up airlines) there have and will continue to be fruitful careers in the legacy airlines.

I really don't know what the implications are. I think it's worth noting that the second biggest valued company in the world has decided to lay out some major plans to enter the transportation and logistics industry.

For someone looking for a career flying job, there could be some opportunities there. Based on jumpseat conversations, it seems contract for ABX/Atlas/Prime isn't great right now, but there is the potential for very rapid growth. Today, FedEx mgmt dismisses Prime as insignificant. Tomorrow, they'll be telling their employees that they must reduce costs under threat of aggressively growing low-cost competitors.

27 minutes ago, uhhello said:

There is a good Joe Rogan podcast with a Pres candidate who is running on a platform of universal income due to the coming automation wave.  

That was a good one. I would have been one of the first to scoff at UBI or the "Freedom Dividend", but Andrew Yang made some great points, and he doesn't seem to be a liberal Democrat. I look forward to hearing him debate in the primaries. I think he's right in if you thought the last 10 years brought some crazy change, the next 10 will be even more interesting.

Can't wait for my monthly $1000 check because I've been replaced by a robot.

[uhhello]

58 minutes ago, torqued said:

I really don't know what the implications are. I think it's worth noting that the second biggest valued company in the world has decided to lay out some major plans to enter the transportation and logistics industry.

For someone looking for a career flying job, there could be some opportunities there. Based on jumpseat conversations, it seems contract for ABX/Atlas/Prime isn't great right now, but there is the potential for very rapid growth. Today, FedEx mgmt dismisses Prime as insignificant. Tomorrow, they'll be telling their employees that they must reduce costs under threat of aggressively growing low-cost competitors.

That was a good one. I would have been one of the first to scoff at UBI or the "Freedom Dividend", but Andrew Yang made some great points, and he doesn't seem to be a liberal Democrat. I look forward to hearing him debate in the primaries. I think he's right in if you thought the last 10 years brought some crazy change, the next 10 will be even more interesting.

Can't wait for my monthly $1000 check because I've been replaced by a robot.

Yup.  He never really answered and Joe never pressed him on what good does th $1000 bucks do when you don't have a job to supplement it?  

[Homestar]

Does anyone know anyone who flies for Prime Air? Amazon is notorious for paying poor wages and overworking employees. I’m certain this management philosophy will also impact flying for that company. 

 

[nunya]

1 minute ago, Homestar said:

Does anyone know anyone who flies for Prime Air? Amazon is notorious for paying poor wages and overworking employees. I’m certain this management philosophy will also impact flying for that company. 

For now those planes are crewed by Atlas, ATI, and ABX, so no direct HR issues with Amazon management.  We'll see if Amazon has the appetite to actually run their own airline.

[hindsight2020]

1 hour ago, nunya said:

For now those planes are crewed by Atlas, ATI, and ABX, so no direct HR issues with Amazon management.  We'll see if Amazon has the appetite to actually run their own airline.

Not trying to be snarky, and I'm not dialed in on the specifics of compensation at the ACMIs, but isn't the above a distinction without difference? They're not exactly paying FDX rates, retirement and work rules in the least, so why would Amazon proper running the slave ship be any different? Not defending Amazon's terrible labor practices, just playing devil's advocate.

[nunya]

Maybe, maybe not.  I think Amazon signing the checks and negotiating the contracts would be even worse for labor than ABX.

[hindsight2020]

30 minutes ago, nunya said:

Maybe, maybe not.  I think Amazon signing the checks and negotiating the contracts would be even worse for labor than ABX.

Considering their recent pullout from New York when they got taken to task about their anti-labor pre-reqs, I'd wager to guess you're right about and airline pilots labor groups' fate under their rule. 

[Hacker]

4 hours ago, torqued said:

Andrew Yang made some great points

Can't wait for my monthly $1000 check because I've been replaced by a robot.

Yang’s plan is dead in the water being funded by a 10% VAT, without removing any other tax burdens.

Think about your monthly discretionary spending and how close to $1000 a 10% cut of that would be.

Even worse he admits that $12,000/year wouldn’t actually fix anyone’s financial woes, but it might make them “feel better”.

[SurelySerious]

34 minutes ago, Hacker said:

Yang’s plan is dead in the water being funded by a 10% VAT, without removing any other tax burdens.

Think about your monthly discretionary spending and how close to $1000 a 10% cut of that would be.

Even worse he admits that $12,000/year wouldn’t actually fix anyone’s financial woes, but it might make them “feel better”.

“Feel better” and get hooked on being paid for doing nothing, beholden to the government. Great. 

[uhhello]

59 minutes ago, Hacker said:

Yang’s plan is dead in the water being funded by a 10% VAT, without removing any other tax burdens.

Think about your monthly discretionary spending and how close to $1000 a 10% cut of that would be.

Even worse he admits that $12,000/year wouldn’t actually fix anyone’s financial woes, but it might make them “feel better”.

Yeah, Joe tried twice to press him on that but didn't follow through.

[gearhog]

42 minutes ago, Hacker said:

Yang’s plan is dead in the water being funded by a 10% VAT, without removing any other tax burdens.

Think about your monthly discretionary spending and how close to $1000 a 10% cut of that would be.

Even worse he admits that $12,000/year wouldn’t actually fix anyone’s financial woes, but it might make them “feel better”.

Yeah, I think his solution sort of sucks, but I'll give him credit for attempting to address an impending major issue when no one else wants to talk about it. Living in a country 10-20 years from now where tens of millions of people have lost their careers due to automation and have become poor, desperate, and angry because we didn't get in front of it would also suck. 

[SurelySerious]

2 minutes ago, torqued said:

Yeah, I think his solution sort of sucks, but I'll give him credit for attempting to address an impending major issue when no one else wants to talk about it. Living in a country 10-20 years from now where tens of millions of people have lost their careers due to automation and have become poor, desperate, and angry because we didn't get in front of it would also suck. 

Unless the autonomy is developing itself, there will be jobs; the real question is will people be willing to adapt?