The new airline thread

[Duck]

Where does this list sit in the DAL crew base?

Surprisingly this one was sitting out on one of the tables in the lounge/tv room.

So I can’t speak for other airlines since I only applied to SWA but I was amazed at just how friendly and easy the interview was. I even cracked a couple jokes and just had fun with the interviewers.

“What do you think is going to be the biggest challenge going from Military to SWA?”

“Figuring out what to do with all that money, Bob. Just kidding, but honestly... [discussion about leaning on others versus the military putting everything on your shoulders]”


The toughest part was the LOI, where they give you a bad situation with no good answers and only a couple mins to deal with it. Plus you may or may not have helpful crew members. My FO was hell bent on diverting to a place that just didn’t make sense. One guy in my group had an FO who tried to takeover the plane and make decisions for him. It’s like a better version of Delta’s “what would you do” because now you have a face to look at and it’s not a hypothetical anymore. JUST MAKE A DECISION AND DO IT while trying to not be an a-hole, passive or Capt America.

Good questions in here, keep them coming.



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[Duck]

Curious about this, do they have a definition of an “incident”?  I’ve had enough emergencies in the Talon that I’ve lost count.  Do they want you to list battle damage under this?  I have every intention of being open kimono on my apps but I don’t want to unintentionally leave something out and then get called on it.  Appreciate any info you have.

I didn’t list every time I shut an engine down in the T-38 or anything that wasn’t a reportable incident to the FAA. I listed my one Q-3 (that guy is blacklisted and not by me), and that was about it. I was involved in a Class C which was later upgraded to a B, which I probably should have mentioned but I had honestly forgotten about it because it happened at the school house when a C-17 broke our boom in half and landed with it still in his receptacle. That was a weird situation because the SQ/CC of the C-17s was flying and I guess he was a golden child. We waited around expecting to pee in cups but magically it all went away as if it never happened. Right before I graduated the IP found me and told me the damage was so bad that they had upgraded it. Those things you definitely want to list. I would say don’t hide anything but also don’t be the worrier who psychs himself out so much that he can’t perform come game day.

Also don’t be like the guy in my wing who showed up for the interview dropping the F-bomb every other sentence. The feedback I got was they really wanted to hire him but just couldn’t justify it.




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[zmoney]

57 minutes ago, DirkDiggler said:

Curious about this, do they have a definition of an “incident”?  I’ve had enough emergencies in the Talon that I’ve lost count.  Do they want you to list battle damage under this?  I have every intention of being open kimono on my apps but I don’t want to unintentionally leave something out and then get called on it.  Appreciate any info you have.

ICAO definition of accident: 

https://www.skybrary.aero/index.php/Accident

Incident:

https://www.skybrary.aero/index.php/Serious_Incident

[SocialD]

On 11/25/2019 at 7:43 PM, FUSEPLUG said:

This wouldn’t happen to be a “well-known” guy from the mobility community, would it?  

Negative.  Fighter community.  

[dream big]

On 11/25/2019 at 5:10 PM, Duck said:

I went down to the crew base in Dallas to grab some paperwork a couple weeks ago and saw the interview list. A couple guys had some positive comments next to their name, but one dude had “Not only no, but HELL NO!” The Chiefs look at this sheet and it carries a lot of weight at Southwest.


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The infamous “bro check”...bottom line, don’t be a douche.  

[TreeA10]

On 11/26/2019 at 9:30 PM, DirkDiggler said:

Curious about this, do they have a definition of an “incident”?  I’ve had enough emergencies in the Talon that I’ve lost count.  Do they want you to list battle damage under this?  I have every intention of being open kimono on my apps but I don’t want to unintentionally leave something out and then get called on it.  Appreciate any info you have.

I'm not in the hiring business and have no idea what the airlines might want to know. I had numerous events (worse week was a T-38 engine fire, rapid decompression, and major electrical failure over three days) and didn't list any since nothing required an investigation. They made good topics for a lot of interview questions, however. 

 I would guess if you were personally listed as the cause of the event due to neglect, error, etc., you might want to mention it. The person I mentioned was directly responsible for the incident, actually multiple incidents, through his actions showing wanton disregard for rules and the safe operation of his aircraft. Very blatant and hard to overlook or justify by any measure by any rational aviator. 

[DirkDiggler]

18 hours ago, TreeA10 said:

I'm not in the hiring business and have no idea what the airlines might want to know. I had numerous events (worse week was a T-38 engine fire, rapid decompression, and major electrical failure over three days) and didn't list any since nothing required an investigation. They made good topics for a lot of interview questions, however. 

 I would guess if you were personally listed as the cause of the event due to neglect, error, etc., you might want to mention it. The person I mentioned was directly responsible for the incident, actually multiple incidents, through his actions showing wanton disregard for rules and the safe operation of his aircraft. Very blatant and hard to overlook or justify by any measure by any rational aviator. 

Thanks much, response was helpful.  Knock on wood, so far I haven’t had my name on any investigations so hopefully I can keep that up these last 4 years.

[Sua Sponte]

On 11/25/2019 at 4:43 PM, FUSEPLUG said:

This wouldn’t happen to be a “well-known” guy from the mobility community, would it?  
 

Either way, the efforts against the guy I am talking about were due to extreme douche-baggery outside of his AF career.  That’s a clean kill when you fuck over a well-liked bro with a lot of friends at most (if not all) of the majors. 

He works for Boeing.

[so.it.goes]

On 4/16/2019 at 6:19 PM, Cockpit2Cockpit said:

Here is a link to the latest article on my Cockpit to Cockpit blog...enjoy!

Military to Airline Pilot 101: What to Expect in Your First Year

https://bit.ly/2UpTEKl

 

Quick question for you guys who have read this book:

I'm a Guard baby and also a Regional Captain who is trying to get his s**t together and get apps/profiles published for several companies by 1-January... Since I have a pretty good grasp of 121 life and the differences between the Mil and Civ side, would this book still be a useful supplement to my current efforts?

I don't mind to spend money on good stuff, and it sounds like it's fantastic info for guys coming off AD careers, but I don't want to blow hard-earned cash on something that doesn't really pertain to me... especially since I'm dropping all kinds of coin for Emerald Coast, app reviews, etc. 

Any opinions welcome, and thanks in advance. 

[Smokin]

Between the free advice from friends who are where you want to be, the insane amount of advice on forums like this and APC, and the advice you're about to pay for with interview prep, I bet you'll be fine.  I didn't buy or read that book or any other and it worked out just fine for me.

But to play devils advocate against myself, it is a huge career money-wise, so another $20 or whatever he's charging probably is a drop in the bucket.

[Royal]

On 12/11/2019 at 8:32 AM, so.it.goes said:

Quick question for you guys who have read this book:

I'm a Guard baby and also a Regional Captain who is trying to get his s**t together and get apps/profiles published for several companies by 1-January... Since I have a pretty good grasp of 121 life and the differences between the Mil and Civ side, would this book still be a useful supplement to my current efforts?

I don't mind to spend money on good stuff, and it sounds like it's fantastic info for guys coming off AD careers, but I don't want to blow hard-earned cash on something that doesn't really pertain to me... especially since I'm dropping all kinds of coin for Emerald Coast, app reviews, etc. 

Any opinions welcome, and thanks in advance. 

You're good without the book; you already went Mil to airline by flying at a regional, so you've got insights that someone coming from AD doesn't.

Tangentially, my unsolicited advice (knowing what I know now) is to spend the extra time asking your homies what they do NOT like about their respective airline. This isn't a dig at anyone, but dudes coming off active duty have a very skewed perspective; most of them just got out of an abusive relationship with the Air Force, so no matter which company they end up at, life is SIGNIFICANTLY better. Since they've only seen the industry during a bull market, there are no apparent downsides. However, the O-5s in your SQ who've been playing this game for the last two decades can tell you what to be cautious of and what their airline is NOT bringing to the table compared to the others. Not that you haven't done this already; some folks here are unfamiliar with the process. Just my 2 cents; best of luck, man.

[so.it.goes]

You're good without the book; you already went Mil to airline by flying at a regional, so you've got insights that someone coming from AD doesn't.
Tangentially, my unsolicited advice (knowing what I know now) is to spend the extra time asking your homies what they do NOT like about their respective airline. This isn't a dig at anyone, but dudes coming off active duty have a very skewed perspective; most of them just got out of an abusive relationship with the Air Force, so no matter which company they end up at, life is SIGNIFICANTLY better. Since they've only seen the industry during a bull market, there are no apparent downsides. However, the O-5s in your SQ who've been playing this game for the last two decades can tell you what to be cautious of and what their airline is NOT bringing to the table compared to the others. Not that you haven't done this already; some folks here are unfamiliar with the process. Just my 2 cents; best of luck, man.

Thanks, man. Good advice (which I feel like I have mostly adopted already). The only "tough" part about doing so, is that when you're in a guard unit in a domicile (Louisville/UPS), the numbers are WAY skewed toward that particular employer, and it can be difficult to get an idea of what everyone else is like.

We've added a few Delta folks, one/now two United, and have a couple AAL/SW guys in the ranks, but the vast majority are UPS, so that's about all I hear.

I'll have to be a little more proactive about the other companies, but, ultimately, I guess it comes down to who calls first anyway.

[SocialD]

1 hour ago, so.it.goes said:

Thanks, man. Good advice (which I feel like I have mostly adopted already). The only "tough" part about doing so, is that when you're in a guard unit in a domicile (Louisville/UPS), the numbers are WAY skewed toward that particular employer, and it can be difficult to get an idea of what everyone else is like.

We've added a few Delta folks, one/now two United, and have a couple AAL/SW guys in the ranks, but the vast majority are UPS, so that's about all I hear.

This brings up a great point...living in base.  If you plan on staying in SDF, then there is no question about it, do everything you can to get to UPS.  If SDF closes, UPS is likely defunct.  As I'm sure you already know, living in base is like a totally different job as compared to commuting to an airline gig.  Not to mention all the opportunities you'd have outside of simply flying jets.

 

Quote

I'll have to be a little more proactive about the other companies, but, ultimately, I guess it comes down to who calls first anyway.

Right, go to the first to call, then make decisions.  I left one legacy for another and it's by far the best decision I could have every made...reference living in base comment above.

Edited December 13, 2019 by SocialD

[AlphaMikeFoxtrot]

Can anyone shed some light on which regionals/pilot union may preclude someone from terminating regional employment and transitioning to another large carrier? Example, is there truth that if hired by SkyWest you cannot jump ship for United before 5 years of employment?

[HuggyU2]

20 minutes ago, AlphaMikeFoxtrot said:

Example, is there truth that if hired by SkyWest you cannot jump ship for United before 5 years of employment?

No. I am not aware of this anywhere in the US. 
 

[Bigred]

10 hours ago, AlphaMikeFoxtrot said:

Can anyone shed some light on which regionals/pilot union may preclude someone from terminating regional employment and transitioning to another large carrier? Example, is there truth that if hired by SkyWest you cannot jump ship for United before 5 years of employment?

I’ll ask some of my regional buddies, but I think the confusion may stem from any bonuses given. I.e., Skywest gives former helo dudes up to 25k for pilot training to ATP, and I highly doubt they’d be cool with you just leaving after 6 months if a major came calling (unlikely I know, but just an example). I would assume like anything, it depends on the contract.

Contrast that with a former Navy O-5 I know. He spent his last three years in the Navy at a desk, so he went to the regionals. He was a F-18 driver so he spent about 7 months there, got current, and got hired on at a major. 

Edited December 19, 2019 by Bigred

[AlphaMikeFoxtrot]

I’ll ask some of my regional buddies, but I think the confusion may stem from any bonuses given. I.e., Skywest gives former helo dudes up to 25k for pilot training to ATP, and I highly doubt they’d be cool with you just leaving after 6 months if a major came calling (unlikely I know, but just an example). I would assume like anything, it depends on the contract.
Contrast that with a former Navy O-5 I know. He spent his last three years in the Navy at a desk, so he went to the regionals. He was a F-18 driver so he spent about 7 months there, got current, and got hired on at a major. 

Yeah man my situation is similar to your Navy buddy. School then staff now I’m seeking employment with no recency.

I’ve not heard any first hand stories of any transition issues but have heard about friends of friends that were denied employment due to regional employment. Just trying to find truth data. Not really a good question for HR.

[HossHarris]

Just like the AF, decline the bonus and keep your options open ...

[Royal]

2 hours ago, AlphaMikeFoxtrot said:

 

Yeah man my situation is similar to your Navy buddy. School then staff now I’m seeking employment with no recency.

I’ve not heard any first hand stories of any transition issues but have heard about friends of friends that were denied employment due to regional employment. Just trying to find truth data. Not really a good question for HR.

I'd take those latter stories with a grain of salt. I haven't heard of anyone getting brought into an interview only to not get offered a job because they flew for a specific regional. However, I do know plenty of folks that never got invited to an interview. The most likely cause is that within the regional community, there's 10,000 dudes with the same exact resumé; it's difficult to make yourself stick out amongst that crowd. Yet, you'll hear guys say, "I haven't gotten a call from UAL because I work for XYZ." Nah, bro; you haven't gotten called because you're a copilot with 1,800 hours, no PIC time, and each airline still has 12,000 applications on file.

Probably the most important factor for you is going to a company that won't force you to commute. Also, not all bonuses come with strings attached. For a long while, bonuses at SkyWest didn't require you to sign any contracts. Don't know if that's still the case. PM if you need help with the process.

[Danger41]

Speaking of commuting, is it possible to start trips outside of your base? For example, if you’re based out of San Francisco but live in Anchorage, can you do the first leg of a trip from Anchorage to San Francisco or do all trips have to start in domicile?

[HuggyU2]

I don't understand how FedEx and UPS do their trips (which I hear is great if you want to commute), but where I work, you will start out of your domicile with 2 exceptions:

1.  If a trip comes available for the next day at another domicile, you can grab it from Open Time.  I see this with pilots that live near a senior base, but cannot get domiciled there because they are still too junior.  

2.  It's rare, but sometimes a trip will begin with a deadhead from your domicile to the city you live in.  You grab the trip, skip (and get paid) for the deadhead, and show up to your local airport in time for next leg.  

It's been said a thousand times before... but if you choose to commute rather than live in domicile, you forfeit a significant benefit to being an airline pilot.  For the record, I commuted for 18 months from San Antonio to Chicago.  

Edited December 21, 2019 by HuggyU2

[HossHarris]

https://www.businessinsider.com/nyu-professor-scott-galloway-walmart-acquire-fedex-shopify-2019-12?utm_content=bufferf3711&utm_medium=social&utm_source=facebook.com&utm_campaign=buffer-bi
 

interesting nuggets throughout. 

[Gazmo]

I don't understand how FedEx and UPS do their trips (which I hear is great if you want to commute), but where I work, you will start out of your domicile with 2 exceptions:
1.  If a trip comes available for the next day at another domicile, you can grab it from Open Time.  I see this with pilots that live near a senior base, but cannot get domiciled there because they are still too junior.  
2.  It's rare, but sometimes a trip will begin with a deadhead from your domicile to the city you live in.  You grab the trip, skip (and get paid) for the deadhead, and show up to your local airport in time for next leg.  
It's been said a thousand times before... but if you choose to commute rather than live in domicile, you forfeit a significant benefit to being an airline pilot.  For the record, I commuted for 18 months from San Antonio to Chicago.  

I will beat the dead horse to death about how great it is to be within a 30-45 min car drive from my base. It just leaves you with so many more options. Bid a line, bid Reserve, grab OG, grab premium, etc. Or of course you can sit back on LCR for 73 hrs month and never work. I have worked 3 days on short call this month so far.

[JeremiahWeed]

5 hours ago, HuggyU2 said:

I don't understand how FedEx and UPS do their trips (which I hear is great if you want to commute), but where I work, you will start out of your domicile with 2 exceptions:

1.  If a trip comes available for the next day at another domicile, you can grab it from Open Time.  I see this with pilots that live near a senior base, but cannot get domiciled there because they are still too junior.  

2.  It's rare, but sometimes a trip will begin with a deadhead from your domicile to the city you live in.  You grab the trip, skip (and get paid) for the deadhead, and show up to your local airport in time for next leg. 

Your #2 above is basically how FedEx constructs a large percentage of their trips.  The same deadhead from "domicile to the city you live in" scenario you describe is exactly how many of our pilots go to work on their trips.  The additional wrinkle to any of our deadhead trips is that if you deviate and do not use the scheduled deadhead flights from domicile, the money from those tickets is yours to use to get where you need to go.  Those not quite as fortunate to be able to hold deadheads to their actual home city, avoid the classic commute to domicile on their free time by using the money to fly from home to the city in which they begin their trip.  Usually they are doing that during the "footprint" of their trip which incorporates the time spent deadheading from base.  A paid commute on company time in most cases while accruing airline FF miles and the benefits that come with those.  The FedEx contract does not allow us to be positioned for work on our own aircraft jump seats except under rare circumstances.  Last I knew, that was not the case with UPS.  They make more use of their own aircraft to move their pilots which isn't going to allow the same level of flexibility.

While not as good as living in domicile, it's so much better than a classic pax airline commute.  Definitely a better option for some of  us than holding our nose and moving the the suburbs of Memphis.  Fortunately, most of the major pax airlines guys hope to land a job with have better options for domicile cities and if circumstances allow moving, driving to work is the best.

I just relocated to Hong Kong in conjunction with a move to the left seat.  First time in 14 years that I'm living in domicile.  While not quite the same as driving from the DFW or ATL suburbs (I don't have a car here), it's nice to worry less about getting to work.

[AirGuardianC141747]

Referencing HossHarris website post, definitely interesting data points. Something we’ve been watching as one of the hired guns for Amazon for quite some time now. FedEx has thrown some hurdles and speed bumps in front of them, it was just a matter of timing before a wrench was thrown back. Business is war, and the Fred vs Bezos show has quite the history dating back many years.

Unsure what the future may bring, but the facility construction in CVG is well underway and judging by the footprint of phase I, FedEx and UPS will take/have taken notice and planned accordingly/or may not be able too. Visibly, it’s just scratching the surface what lies ahead. We’re just contracted and if gobbled up during the expansion, Bezos doesn’t take prisoners which is worrisome at best. What happens when we’re all assimilated???

————————————————————————————————————

***Regarding the Domicile info. Totally agree, nothing compares to being in Domicile convenience wise or at least being near your Guard unit. 

**Having retired from the Guard over 2 years ago, I have moved 3 times just trying to figure out where it feels right to actually settle down for awhile. Domicile living is exceptional if it is really where you want to be. It does conjure up old AF assignments memories you didn’t want due to the location you were in. 

*Domicile matters somewhat, but not as important as our company provides ticketing to our Domicile or wherever they need us (you keep the points). You may lose a day here or there (Lost 1 last year, but I normally bid lines where commute days count as work days), but nothing like having to commute with no responsibility whatsoever. Aircraft maintenance issues, weather delays, airline cancels, etc. matter not, not my problem. Before I started the airline gig, a Delta friend let me know - “Getting to work is half the pressure of doing your dang job!!!” I really appreciate no crash pad, airport car or stranger room mates. And while the company still exists, it’s nice not having to relive college in the aforementioned scenario and touring the world.

BONUS: I cannot recall/witnessing a time where a pilot could choose where they want to live first, and then get hired by an airline that supports it. Carry on and Fly on!

Edited January 3, 2020 by AirGuardianC141747