The new airline thread

[go_cubbies22]

Starting to work on my airline applications and was looking for some recommendations for books and resources to help with the application and interview process.

Are the following books worthwhile to buy?

Cockpit 2 Cockpit 

Everything Explained for the Professional Pilot

Checklist for success: A pilot’s guide to the successful airline interview 

 

Would you recommend Milkeep to help convert my hours?

Any specific recommendations for application review and interview prep companies?

Any other advice in getting started?
 

Thanks!

 

[baileynme]

Starting to work on my airline applications and was looking for some recommendations for books and resources to help with the application and interview process.
Are the following books worthwhile to buy?
Cockpit 2 Cockpit 
Everything Explained for the Professional Pilot
Checklist for success: A pilot’s guide to the successful airline interview 
 
Would you recommend Milkeep to help convert my hours?
Any specific recommendations for application review and interview prep companies?
Any other advice in getting started?
 
Thanks!
 

You are going to get a lot of different recommendations but here's my personal take.

Hours: DIY with Excel, or use MilKeep
Light Reading: What you said
App Review: CheckedandSet (buy the combo with Emerald Coast) use Charlie, the others I've heard mixed reviews. They'll review two apps, pick your two favorites that are on two different sites (AKA NOT United and Delta)
Resume Prep: personally had a bad experience with Career Takeoff, used CockpittoCockpit template instead
Interview Prep: Emerald Coast, lifetime membership. Great for general prep.

All this said, other companies offer resume, app, and interview prep all in one package. Most of those are focused on one airline or another so if you have a favorite use those. I wanted American and did not hear about Judy Tarver (AA focus) until I had already completed Emerald Coast prep. Again, lots of opinions inbound but this set up worked for me (CJO and starting with AA on the 21st).

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[BADFNZ]

I highly recommend Cockpit to Cockpit.  It serves as a great checklist when you're starting to get your apps together and prep for interviews. 

Milkeep was worth its weight in gold.  I went the Excel route originally, but inputting 3000 hours line by line pushed me to my breaking point.  Best $200 I've ever spent.

[Termy]

.”I have worked 3 days on short call this month so far.”

Folks, unless you value your time at zero, please stop saying this. If you are required to be within a certain geographic radius, fit for flying duty and contactable....you are working. Don’t sell yourself and your profession short. 

[okawner]

.”I have worked 3 days on short call this month so far.”
Folks, unless you value your time at zero, please stop saying this. If you are required to be within a certain geographic radius, fit for flying duty and contactable....you are working. Don’t sell yourself and your profession short. 

I've run into a few folks that take issue with these kinds of statements and can never figure out why. It is a valid data point for making a decision on whether to commute or not. Are you concerned that mgmt. or some layperson are going to read this and conclude that we are not working enough? Because I'm sure that the poster values his or her time as much as you or I do.

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[HossHarris]

2 hours ago, Termy said:

.”I have worked 3 days on short call this month so far.”

Folks, unless you value your time at zero, please stop saying this. If you are required to be within a certain geographic radius, fit for flying duty and contactable....you are working. Don’t sell yourself and your profession short. 

If I can be at home, drunk, poking the frau, while shooting fireworks .... or fishing in the gulf .... then it’s not really work. 

[MooseAg03]

If I can be at home, drunk, poking the frau, while shooting fireworks .... or fishing in the gulf .... then it’s not really work. 

You can be drunk on reserve? Sign me up!


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[SocialD]

15 hours ago, HossHarris said:

If I can be at home, drunk, poking the frau, while shooting fireworks .... or fishing in the gulf .... then it’s not really work. 

Hell, I'll even fly my cub around on short call...still get a cell signal at 500 feet. 🤣  On short call, unless I leave my house, I don't even shower and shave anymore.  I do get Termy's gist...how about we just recognize days on duty (worked) vs days we actually put on a uniform.  

 

13 hours ago, MooseAg03 said:

You can be drunk on reserve? Sign me up!

Fo sho!  I'm on reserve and I spent the afternoon with a few squadronmates, wrenching in the garage and having beers...we're all 3 on reserve today.  Just got home and about to crack a bottle of wine for dinner.  In base, reserve life doesn't suck.

Edited January 8, 2020 by SocialD

[HossHarris]

2 hours ago, MooseAg03 said:

You can be drunk on reserve? Sign me up!


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12 hour leash...8 hours bottle to throttle....profit!

[nunya]

54 minutes ago, SocialD said:

In base, reserve life doesn't suck.

For all the gonnabe's out there looking over the fence at the greener grass, those first two words are mucho important.  The grass is still greener even if you wanna move back home to your farm in central KS, but most of the epic tales are from guys living in base.

[HossHarris]

Or at least relatively close. Atlanta sucks. The panhandle of Florida is awesome and close enough. 

[sputnik]

On 1/2/2020 at 10:03 PM, AirGuardianC141747 said:

.... over 2 years ago, I have moved 3 times just trying to figure out where it feels right to actually settle down for awhile

I find this statement really confusing

[sputnik]

12 hours ago, HossHarris said:

Or at least relatively close. Atlanta sucks. The panhandle of Florida is awesome and close enough. 

Bite your tongue, after 20+ in the Air Force actively avoiding it,  I finally live in "base housing"--and it's awesome.  As a bonus, driving to work is priceless.

To each his own--another great facet of airline life.

[AirGuardianC141747]

For Sputnik - Got it, makes sense not living in someone else’s shoes. I need to give some back ground info that pertains to my situation specifically.

Skip to the bottom for the quick answer and avoid the personal fluff below. See ***

Note:
*If your a Guard baby from the beginning and have never left your hometown/state OR have visited areas you would like to retire in than it’s probably easy to figure out where you want to live since Uncle Sam probably deployed you, but never really PCS’d/moved you. Or, you have kids in school and it doesn’t make sense to uproot yet again, etc. kind of a no brainer. Having Friends and Family nearby since birth is a luxury and I envy this position  - granted, that’s based upon great friends and good family members of course in a good location. It’s all eye of the beholder of course.

As for me:

Consider yourself fully retired having served over 24 years of military service in the active duty AND Guard or Reserve Components.

Moved 9 times fulfilling 9 assignments in 6 of our great states. Lived overseas during my younger (high school) years. Have family in Europe and the Far East.

No real responsibilities such as kids, schools, universities grandparents, parents, spouse employment etc. tying my wife and I down.

Our immediate families live in NOT so nice areas, basically a lot of America has changed these past few decades as it always has and not always for the better. 

Company I work for has domiciles, but we also have the option to commute (paid ticket) and hotel waiting for you prior to launch if you will. It’s a huge plus as we can pretty much live anywhere in the US and quite a few of our folks live overseas. May cost you a day commuting, but you get to live where you want. If you call HOME places like New York City, Chicago, Los Angeles, Seattle, Miami, etc (some of our domiciles) then it’s a perfect situation no doubt.

***I retired from Pan Handle of FL which was very nice and we moved to TN (1st move) summer of 2017, then moved to Atlantic side of FL summer of 2018 (2nd move), pulled chocks after 6 months and right back to TN to a familiar area for now.

Bottom Line: Uncle Sam has told us where to live for a very long time. Most people live where their jobs/livelihood/family thrives or have anchors they cannot break. We are blessed to be able to live almost anywhere (no complaints). Despite the cost/headaches, we have been striking out in search of somewhere we can settle down comfortably which meets our particular needs. Our Home towns of decades ago are no longer what we consider a great town today. While definitely not my hometown - I graduated from San Jose State University and thrived in “The City” (San Francisco) 89-93. How does “The City” look now? Never will return to the Left Coast.

Definitely <1st world problems and not a bad one to have if you can afford it. It’s probably a quick an easy answer for most, but it’s been perplexing at best. We’re still in the hunt for what we can only answer!

 

 

 

 

 

Edited January 9, 2020 by AirGuardianC141747

[HuggyU2]

On 1/7/2020 at 3:55 PM, HossHarris said:

12 hour leash...8 hours bottle to throttle....profit!

12 hours at United as of last year.  

[AirGuardianC141747]

On a separate note. Living in base or at your military installation has its perks which is undeniable.

If your base or installation is where you want to live even if you were no longer in the military or working for an airline then that is the perfect scenario.

Can you answer the age old question(s):

1.) If you had a million dollars, what would you do with your life?

#Besides the Office Space answer

2.) If you had a million dollars, where would you live?

To fit our times let’s make it 10 million dollars...

Well done Sputnik! Glad to hear it rocks for you. We enjoyed Panama City, but somehow ventured out a year prior to Hurricane Michael in 2018 thankfully. Some of our friends still haven’t moved back into their homes who worked at Tyndall AFB and it’s still terrible there. Dodged that bullet.

 

 

[HossHarris]

9 hours ago, HuggyU2 said:

12 hours at United as of last year.  

I remember hearing about that. 
If it’s a 12 hour leash tho.... shots!

[Sneedro]

On 1/7/2020 at 8:05 PM, HossHarris said:

Or at least relatively close. Atlanta sucks. The panhandle of Florida is awesome and close enough. 

Agree!!  Atlanta sucks and I try to even fly through that place.  So far not successful avoiding it for training but maybe one day 🤣

 

[SocialD]

19 hours ago, Sneedro said:

Agree!!  Atlanta sucks and I try to even fly through that place.  So far not successful avoiding it for training but maybe one day 🤣

 

 

Eh, you can find good spots pretty much anywhere you go...hell, I even enjoyed living in Wichita Falls, TX.  While "avoid if any landing in ATL" is an integral part of my bidding strategy, I also know that VA ave does not represent the entire area.  I have a few buddies that swore they'd never live in "base housing," but have since moved there and absolutely love it.  If you're willing to take gigs like sim IP or duty pilot, you can make a shit ton of cash AND be home every night.  There are a few places I wouldn't mind moving to, but the idea of commuting just makes that unpalatable to me (full disclosure, I live 8 minutes to Guard, 45 minutes to my family and 60 minutes to the employee lot).  Others find commuting to be a non-issue to live where they want.  Being happy by living where your family wants is huge, but there is no denying that there is a real cost in $$$ and time at home with said family.  That's the beautiful part of this job, there is a little bit of something for everyone, you just have to decide if it's worth it to you.  My advice if you want to commute (to pax carriers) is to get on a WB as soon as you can hold a line and never look back.

[Lord Ratner]

Just a friendly update, our most recent vacancy bid just came out and the most Junior Group 2 (737, A32x) Captain slot awarded was hired in May of 2017. And it's not an anomaly, the seniority ranges for the various positions dropped about 1,000 (out of 15,000) across the board.

In March I'll put together some info on how much I've made in the first two years with AA, and how much flying it took to get there. I probably work the system harder than most, but the year 3 plan is to make ~$185k while flying fewer than 500 hours actual stick time. 

Disclaimer: can't pull these numbers off as a commuter.

[HossHarris]

Reference the salary post on APC under majors.  Lots of good data points. 
 

[BashiChuni]

Slight thread derail, For airline applications...availability date...should I put my palace chase date (palace chase NOT approved yet) or my solid end of ADSC date. 
hoping for 1 June PC and wanna get apps in ASAP!

soliciting opinions, I’ve heard multiple opinions on both dates from squadron bro’s. 
 

Edited January 14, 2020 by BashiChuni

[gearhog]

53 minutes ago, BashiChuni said:

Slight thread derail, For airline applications...availability date...should I put my palace chase date (palace chase NOT approved yet) or my solid end of ADSC date. 
hoping for 1 June PC and wanna get apps in ASAP!

soliciting opinions, I’ve heard multiple opinions on both dates from squadron bro’s. 
 

I'd recommend putting the earliest date you can be reasonably assured you can be standing in the training center ready to start ground school. You want the earliest seniority number you can possibly get. It's highly unlikely that you'll be in a situation where both your gaining unit and your airline will all refuse to work with you on dates if a conflict arises after you're hired.

[nunya]

 Put the dates you can bank on.  ADSC for now, PC date when you get it.  You don’t wanna carpet dance about why you’re not available on your stated date.  

Edited January 14, 2020 by nunya

[Guardian]

Just a friendly update, our most recent vacancy bid just came out and the most Junior Group 2 (737, A32x) Captain slot awarded was hired in May of 2017. And it's not an anomaly, the seniority ranges for the various positions dropped about 1,000 (out of 15,000) across the board.
In March I'll put together some info on how much I've made in the first two years with AA, and how much flying it took to get there. I probably work the system harder than most, but the year 3 plan is to make ~$185k while flying fewer than 500 hours actual stick time. 
Disclaimer: can't pull these numbers off as a commuter.

Would love to hear that as well as your contrast with a commuter you may know. If that makes sense.