The new airline thread

[Sneedro]

8 hours ago, SocialD said:

 

Eh, you can find good spots pretty much anywhere you go...hell, I even enjoyed living in Wichita Falls, TX.  While "avoid if any landing in ATL" is an integral part of my bidding strategy, I also know that VA ave does not represent the entire area.  I have a few buddies that swore they'd never live in "base housing," but have since moved there and absolutely love it.  If you're willing to take gigs like sim IP or duty pilot, you can make a shit ton of cash AND be home every night.  There are a few places I wouldn't mind moving to, but the idea of commuting just makes that unpalatable to me (full disclosure, I live 8 minutes to Guard, 45 minutes to my family and 60 minutes to the employee lot).  Others find commuting to be a non-issue to live where they want.  Being happy by living where your family wants is huge, but there is no denying that there is a real cost in $$$ and time at home with said family.  That's the beautiful part of this job, there is a little bit of something for everyone, you just have to decide if it's worth it to you.  My advice if you want to commute (to pax carriers) is to get on a WB as soon as you can hold a line and never look back.

My comment was mostly in jest.  I will never speak bad about living in base no matter where it is...hell I live in NJ so I am in base in NY but it's not the most financially sound decision 😂  I do get to live in base though for airline and reserve gig so that's a double plus.  February I won't spend a single night in a hotel!  It's kind of a ball buster month but the family loves it.

 

What other job can you live anywhere in the world and be provided free transportation (well almost free) to work?!  

[Lord Ratner]

3 hours ago, Guardian said:

Would love to hear that as well as your contrast with a commuter you may know. If that makes sense.

Hard to draw a comparison to a commuter as I'm participating in a rather niche strategy, but I can give an example of something I'm able to do that a commuter could not.

 

When we talk about pay at AA, we have something called PROJ, or credit. It includes hours flown, sick time, vacation time, training hours, time spent deadheading, etc. So when I have a 90 hour month, I am referring to credit, not actual hours flown. Now, short version, we have a contract provision that makes it so a trip must pay an average of 5:15 per day. So no matter how much you work, a two day trip must pay at least 10:30, a three day must pay at least 15:45, so on and so forth. The computer that builds trips does a good job making sure you fly at least those values, so they aren't giving you "free" money. 

 

However, when something goes wrong and they have to build a trip to fill uncovered legs (due to sick calls, weather events, broken planes, etc), they ignore the optimization aspect. So as an example, they might need to fill the 22:30 flight from DFW to OKC, which is 45 minutes. There's no way to get back home since that's the last night, so they will fly you back the next day (as a passenger). That's a two day trip, 45 minutes flying and 45 minutes deadheading, or 1:30 of work. But because of the contract, that trip must pay 10:30. 

I take my schedule every month and trade away the whole thing, down to zero. Then I sit around and wait for sequences like the above (though they are usually more like 2 hours out, overnight, and 2 hours back), and fly those for the month. This way I can get 50% or more of my PROJ/credit to be "soft" time that is contractual, instead of from actually flying. The catch is that I usually get the call for trips like that 3-6 hours before takeoff time, so commuting would preclude me from doing that. I actually fly less than some of our reserve pilots. and get paid more. I also choose the days off I want.

I'll have the income figures totaled in March.

[HossHarris]

I’ll contrast as a delta commuter. 

Year 2/3 maddog
$136k pay, $14k PS, $23k DC, $5.5k per Diem and other stuff.  

$179k total.
360hrs of block.
60 nights on the road (not in my own bed). 

no strategies or gimmicks .... no premium or overtime flying  .... just absolute minimum effort. 
 

/bragging

Edited January 15, 2020 by HossHarris

[HossHarris]

https://www.airlinepilotforums.com/major/126228-end-2019-salary-survey.html

[Guardian]

Thanks Hoss

[SocialD]

5 hours ago, HossHarris said:

360hrs of block.
60 nights on the road (not in my own bed). 

no strategies or gimmicks .... no premium or overtime flying  .... just absolute minimum effort. 

Reserve or trips with overnights at home?

Edited January 15, 2020 by SocialD

[HossHarris]

6 hours ago, SocialD said:

Reserve or trips with overnights at home?

Yes!

3 months of reserve when we were overmanned a bit, any home layover >16hrs I coukd Scrounge (maybe 6-9 for the year), and general apathy. 
 

work less, not smarter nor harder 

Edited January 16, 2020 by HossHarris

[Gazmo]

Short call reserve on the E190 at AA and live in base less than an hour away. The following numbers are mostly a WAG, but for the most part I only get tapped a few times a month. Usually fly 5-7 days with 2 or 3 nights away from home. Some are day turns. The occassional 4-day trip, but they are rare. Made about $70k with over 50 days of military leave for TDY's. I probably would have made about $82k without the military leave, but I made over $40k on the Guard side, so it worked out. I get every day off I bid for and was home for Thanksgiving and Chrismas last year. This year will be much better.

 

 

[nunya]

37 minutes ago, Gazmo said:

Short call reserve on the E190 ...Made about $70k with over 50 days of military leave for TDY's. I probably would have made about $82k without the military leave

Holy crap, I had to go look up your 190 pay scale.  Didn't realize it was so much lower than everything else!

[Gazmo]

Holy crap, I had to go look up your 190 pay scale.  Didn't realize it was so much lower than everything else!

Don't get me started. They are worse than Jet Blue's pay rates. Of course 1st year pay is the same for all, but year two stays the same as first year pay. Not sure WTF they were thinking. Needless to say, almost everyone 6 months out of INDOC is withheld from something else with a better pay scale. Ironically, some of the highest paid CA's in the company are in the E190. Other than that, I really don't have anything bad to say about the airplane and I have flown with a great bunch of CA's. Living in-base on Reserve on it has been pretty awesome.

[Scooter14]

Don't get me started. They are worse than Jet Blue's pay rates.

Hey, hey...I’m right here. I can hear you.

190 is a great little jet. I’m a JetBlue 190 guy, I drive to the Guard and to the airport. One year in I’m at 50% seniority. Sometimes money isn’t everything. QoL.

[EvilEagle]

I only flew the line for a year before going on mil leave; and I've been gone for 4 years.  

 

HOWEVER, I commuted to NYC from Nola, held pretty much all international on the 767 that whole year and still flew Eagles in the Guard.  I will more than likely be a commuter my whole career because I don't want to live anywhere we have a base.  It's all what's important to you - I'll commute to wide body FO with good seniority when I go back next year.  Will I make more money than the guys in base?  Nope.  Will I be just as happy because I'm living where I want to live - YEP!  

 

Airline job is truly choose your own adventure; which is one thing I love about it.  

[Guardian]

Evil Eagle. What airline? Stats?

[pilot]

On 1/16/2020 at 8:26 PM, Gazmo said:

On 1/16/2020 at 5:55 PM, nunya said:

Holy crap, I had to go look up your 190 pay scale.  Didn't realize it was so much lower than everything else!

Don't get me started. They are worse than Jet Blue's pay rates. Of course 1st year pay is the same for all, but year two stays the same as first year pay. Not sure WTF they were thinking. Needless to say, almost everyone 6 months out of INDOC is withheld from something else with a better pay scale. Ironically, some of the highest paid CA's in the company are in the E190. Other than that, I really don't have anything bad to say about the airplane and I have flown with a great bunch of CA's. Living in-base on Reserve on it has been pretty awesome.

Hey at least you’re higher than Moxy’s E195 and A220-300 rates. Holy hell. They make AA’s E190 rates look like WB rates in comparison. 112-155 and 128-180, respectively. That’s for the left seat.

Edited January 18, 2020 by pilot

[SocialD]

This got me interested so I took a quick beak.  Our (DAL) 2nd year E190/CRJ900 Capt rate is $168/hr and 12 year rate is $182.  However the E195 rates are $198 and $214 respectively.  My rate as a 6th year 330FO is $208/hr..I know which one I would bid lol.  

[LowNSlow]

Slight thread derail, For airline applications...availability date...should I put my palace chase date (palace chase NOT approved yet) or my solid end of ADSC date. 
hoping for 1 June PC and wanna get apps in ASAP!
soliciting opinions, I’ve heard multiple opinions on both dates from squadron bro’s. 
 

Bashi Bro,
If you are asking for more than 6 months I would list your ADSC availability until it gets approved. If you are asking for 6 months or less, I think you are safe to list the requested PC date. AFPC can approve 6 months off without sending it up for adjudication to SAF/PC. That has been a very high approval rate lately. More than 6 months, too many other factors come into play to have any idea what the board will do (career field manning, commander concur/non concur etc)

As always YMMV and have a solid answer to back up your stated availability date in an interview. If you are asked about it and tap dance too much around it, that might not go well.

[baileynme]

Bashi Bro,
If you are asking for more than 6 months I would list your ADSC availability until it gets approved. If you are asking for 6 months or less, I think you are safe to list the requested PC date. AFPC can approve 6 months off without sending it up for adjudication to SAF/PC. That has been a very high approval rate lately. More than 6 months, too many other factors come into play to have any idea what the board will do (career field manning, commander concur/non concur etc)

As always YMMV and have a solid answer to back up your stated availability date in an interview. If you are asked about it and tap dance too much around it, that might not go well.

AFPC can approve IF everyone recommends approval all the way up. I had all recommend disapproval then SAF/PC made the smart decision to let me have parole anyways.

Being a guy that was in your shoes less than a year ago, I would recommend putting your ADSC then adjusting your dates. If you started the PC process early enough you'll have plenty of time on the market after its approved to get picked up. If not, get PCS'd and give the Guard a couple months work. For a data point, I was approved early September, adjusted my avail (now 1 Jan) and got hired by AA late November. I start Tuesday so I barely had enough time to swear in and get a new CAC.

Sent from my SM-G960U using Baseops Network mobile app

[Danger41]

I know this has been discussed before, but I've talked with some bros and gotten some wildly different answers. What would you put as "availability date" on your app? The no shit date you will be available, or try to game it a bit? I was talking to some guys at a IFF squadron and they were all putting like 6 months before they could actually get out. That seemed a bit ballsy to me.

[HossHarris]

Good way to lose a cjo .... at least with delta. 

[nunya]

48 minutes ago, Danger41 said:

I know this has been discussed before, but I've talked with some bros and gotten some wildly different answers. What would you put as "availability date" on your app? The no shit date you will be available, or try to game it a bit? I was talking to some guys at a IFF squadron and they were all putting like 6 months before they could actually get out. That seemed a bit ballsy to me.

Ask those same bros how they're feeling after Pilot Hiring calls them for a start date 4 months before they're available and they have to explain why they lied on their app.  Just don't do it.  The interview can be an enjoyable experience.  It won't be if you need to say, "Well, about that availability date..." And don't think you'll fool them with jargon Fairchild-style. At least someone interviewing you will be ex-military.

Seniority is everything, but with everyone hiring like they are and will be, you stand to lose a whole helluva lot and stand to gain very little.

[HossHarris]

And every military guy that manages to get away with it makes it that much harder for the next mil guy to get called or get hired. 

[Gazmo]

Just put the no-shit date you can get up in the morning and not have to go to the squadron anymore. Let the airline call you when they are ready to call you. I know AA was interviewing applicants still on Active Duty 6 months out from their availability date and giving them CJO's to frontload their hiring because they knew they'd most likely get offers somewhere else if they didn't.

[StoleIt]

Don't play games with your availability. Until your PC is approved, then your date of availability should be the end of your ADSC (be it PCS, UPT, or GI Bill Transfer). When your PC is approved THEN move your DoS.

[EvilEagle]

On 1/17/2020 at 11:08 AM, Guardian said:

Evil Eagle. What airline? Stats?

Sorry, I didn't see that for a few days.  

Delta

[EvilEagle]

Agree on the availability date.  A bro of mine was getting out, I told him not to dick around with it; he did.  Delta called and said "congrats your indoc date is XXX day."  "yeah, I was hoping to change that to after YYY day."  "If you want to work at Delta, we'll see you on XXX. Goodbye".

 

He flies for AA now.