The new airline thread

[HuggyU2]

22 minutes ago, tac airlifter said:

What are destination jobs? 

AA, DAL, FDX, SWA, UAL, UPS

Edited April 8, 2021 by HuggyU2

[Royal]

Anyone have intel on the latest contract proposals from the Big 3?

[SocialD]

22 hours ago, tac airlifter said:

What are destination jobs?  I’m trying to get smart on all things airline.  I’m currently ignorant.

 

Which ever one allows you to live in base.  

 

20 hours ago, Royal said:

Anyone have intel on the latest contract proposals from the Big 3?

 

DAL was only about half way through the contract when the ronas started.  So far it had some nice little add-ons here and there (pay above guarantee for unused SC, etc...), but they really hadn't gotten to the meat of the contract.   I'd guess you'll see more stuff happening later this year or early next.  Possibly early if it's something that will help the recovery efforts.  Honestly, I'm hoping it will be mostly work rule related (more than pay rates), which will be mostly boring from outsiders looking in.  

[isuguy1234]

Anybody have loss of license insurance?

[Smokin]

I've been keeping up my disability insurance just in case something happened that would prevent me from passing an FAA physical.  Fairly expensive, but airline pilot income for life in the event I get in a car accident or something seems worth it to me.

[cragspider]

AA just announced that they are hiring 300 pilots this year and 600 in 22. Plus the flow though from the regionals. Hope for the best for those that are about to get out. 

This years bonus rates should be interesting. 

[08Dawg]

I love how the AF thought the Rona had put the airlines down for 3-5 years and short changed the bonus....only for most airlines to rebound in a year and open up hiring again. Bold strategy, Cotton...

 

[SocialD]

On 4/19/2021 at 10:45 PM, isuguy1234 said:

Anybody have loss of license insurance?

 

Had it for a hot minute, but dropped it because of our LTD at DAL.  50% of my current earnings is plenty for me for now. 

 

13 minutes ago, 08Dawg said:

I love how the AF thought the Rona had put the airlines down for 3-5 years and short changed the bonus....only for most airlines to rebound in a year and open up hiring again. Bold strategy, Cotton...

 

 

Right!  In reference to the bonus, you even had a few who smugly proclaimed on a few FB groups that "airlines won't be hiring for years."  Meanwhile, guys who were recently on a "no-fly" status just got awarded Captain and  guys with 5 years on property were awarded 75/76 Captain.  I'd expect for us (DAL) to announce hiring soon as well.  What a whacky time in this business.  Bottom line, big miscalculation by the AF and .gov.  

[Waingro]

2 hours ago, SocialD said:

Right!  In reference to the bonus, you even had a few who smugly proclaimed on a few FB groups that "airlines won't be hiring for years."  Meanwhile, guys who were recently on a "no-fly" status just got awarded Captain and  guys with 5 years on property were awarded 75/76 Captain.  I'd expect for us (DAL) to announce hiring soon as well.  What a whacky time in this business.  Bottom line, big miscalculation by the AF and .gov.  

I don't know a single pilot that stayed in, took another assignment, took the bonus etc. because of the pandemic. Maybe five guys in my squadron retired or separated during the pandemic, all are gainfully and happily employed now, to include those who wanted airline work. UPS and FedEx never slowed down. Maybe it was different in the heavy world, but in the fighter world, the pandemic did virtually nothing for retention. 

Anyone who stuck around because of it was likely a tire-kicker and not ever serious about getting out anyway. 

[Muscle2002]

26 minutes ago, Waingro said:

I don't know a single pilot that stayed in, took another assignment, took the bonus etc. because of the pandemic. Maybe five guys in my squadron retired or separated during the pandemic, all are gainfully and happily employed now, to include those who wanted airline work. UPS and FedEx never slowed down. Maybe it was different in the heavy world, but in the fighter world, the pandemic did virtually nothing for retention. 

Anyone who stuck around because of it was likely a tire-kicker and not ever serious about getting out anyway. 

I know one fighter pilot who retracted their retirement paperwork last spring because of the pandemic. I do not recall what their plan was had they retired, though. However, I think you're right. The pandemic may have delayed exits ever-so-slightly but not enough to fix the problem.

Edited April 21, 2021 by Muscle2002

[Muscle2002]

3 hours ago, 08Dawg said:

I love how the AF thought the Rona had put the airlines down for 3-5 years and short changed the bonus....only for most airlines to rebound in a year and open up hiring again. Bold strategy, Cotton...

 

I'm not defending the AF, but Congress had the biggest hand to play in the bonus. After all, Congress has had its eyes on the bonus for a while, and according to some discussion with A1 folks, the AF had to fight to even keep the paltry numbers programmed this year.

[ThreeHoler]

I'm not defending the AF, but Congress had the biggest hand to play in the bonus. After all, Congress has had its eyes on the bonus for a while, and according to some discussion with A1 folks, the AF had to fight to even keep the paltry numbers programmed this year.

Yet doctors don’t have to fight for pro pay every year...

[BroncoEN]

4 hours ago, Muscle2002 said:

I'm not defending the AF, but Congress had the biggest hand to play in the bonus. After all, Congress has had its eyes on the bonus for a while, and according to some discussion with A1 folks, the AF had to fight to even keep the paltry numbers programmed this year.

While the numbers were a joke, the few folks I know that were actually thinking about it, won’t sign because of the 5 year time commitment verse 3 years. 

I can’t imagine Congress cares about commitment, they care about money.
 

Thus I still solely blame the AF, but anyone can feel free to enlighten me. 

[HeloDude]

49 minutes ago, BroncoEN said:

I can’t imagine Congress cares about commitment, they care about money.

Have you seen the spending bills passed over the last 15+ years?  Not to mention the absurdity being proposed in the current Congress?  Congress doesn’t care about spending money...but they do care who receives it.

[08Dawg]

15 hours ago, HeloDude said:

Have you seen the spending bills passed over the last 15+ years?  Not to mention the absurdity being proposed in the current Congress?  Congress doesn’t care about spending money...but they do care who receives it.

And right now maintaining military and defense spending isn’t high on their priority list. 

[Bigred]

On 4/21/2021 at 9:30 PM, Muscle2002 said:

I'm not defending the AF, but Congress had the biggest hand to play in the bonus. After all, Congress has had its eyes on the bonus for a while, and according to some discussion with A1 folks, the AF had to fight to even keep the paltry numbers programmed this year.

Congress authorized the max amount the services could give for the bonus. The individual services decide how to use it. So, the 5 year minimum commitment, no bonus for 11R, etc, falls squarely on the AF. 

[CaptainMorgan]

Congress authorized the max amount the services could give for the bonus. The individual services decide how to use it. So, the 5 year minimum commitment, no bonus for 11R, etc, falls squarely on the AF. 

Not entirely accurate, the current language requires the service to make a business case analysis when authorizing the bonus levels.


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[WheelsOff]

1 hour ago, CaptainMorgan said:

Not entirely accurate, the current language requires the service to make a business case analysis when authorizing the bonus levels.


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So they’re lazy AND they don’t care. Checks. 

[Bigred]

2 hours ago, CaptainMorgan said:

Not entirely accurate, the current language requires the service to make a business case analysis when authorizing the bonus levels.


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That’s my point. The results of said business case(s) and how to manage their bonus structure was entirely up to the AF, not Congress. Nothing in the NDAA prohibited maxing out the bonus for everyone.

[SurelySerious]

Not entirely accurate, the current language requires the service to make a business case analysis when authorizing the bonus levels.


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That’s my point. The results of said business case(s) and how to manage their bonus structure was entirely up to the AF, not Congress. Nothing in the NDAA prohibited maxing out the bonus for everyone.

Let alone making a case to Congress to increase the maximum amount that was set in the, what, 1990s?

[contraildash]

On 4/21/2021 at 3:47 PM, ThreeHoler said:

 

Yet doctors don’t have to fight for pro pay every year...

 

This. I'm curious how much is spent on dentists and doctors every year. I think we can safely argue that the Air Force would run just fine if it had neither. Kinda need those pilots though.....

[FLEA]

Anyone have experience with Kalitta Air (cargo)? Thoughts?

I honestly hadn't heard much of them until recently. (I guess just based on where I grew up) But according to the gouge sheet on APC they seem competitive with other major carriers. 

Edited May 4, 2021 by FLEA

[ImNotARobot]

I bet you already saw this.

https://www.airlinepilotcentral.com/airlines/cargo/kalitta_air

Their new contract sets them up nicely amongst the ACMIs. Unfortunately I don’t know anyone over there. But former K4 guys now at FedEx have told me repeatedly—guys are generally happy at K4. One dude told me he was so comfortable that he even debated putting an app in with FedEx.

Again, all secondhand info, so nothing to base your decision on. Just be careful perusing the APC forums for actual info...it’s a ton of sport bitching and over emphasized negativity by a vocal few.

Hopefully someone on here can provide you with some firsthand info.

[BFM this]

IM(biased)O, K4 should be the seventh app for any .mil airline applicant, barring those who can say for certainty that they couldn't stomach certain aspects of the sector (16 day lines, planet lapping, etc).  They are easily on top of the heap of regionals and other ACMI operators.

That said, the latest contract was VERY incremental over the previous 2016 contract, due mostly to the drag on negotiations from the previous year's events. Likely scenarios will have a much more productive negotiating environment when this contract is up in four years.  However, expectation management: the best ACMI dog in the business will always lag parcels and pax, simply because it's a much leaner sector historically.  The organized labor lens can angst all day that management is making money hand over fist in the current environment, but that can change over a commercial break, and chaining a company to a contract that will ensure the doors get locked at the bottom of the next cycle...even this pilot group understands that reality.

But beyond that, there's a few -isms within the company that I think weigh it down on it's way to becoming a "destination job", namely a training dept that is being dragged kicking and screaming into the 21st century, inability to sit any form of "in-base reserve", negligible retirement benefit, etc.  Crews are great, can't beat the 74 for bucket list type value; still highly recommend.

[Hacker]

4 hours ago, BFM this said:

The organized labor lens can angst all day that management is making money hand over fist in the current environment, but that can change over a commercial break, and chaining a company to a contract that will ensure the doors get locked at the bottom of the next cycle...even this pilot group understands that reality.

 

That is the best management logic for not giving a great paying contract that I've ever read.