The new airline thread

[Royal]

What's the latest scuttlebutt? Any prognostications for 2022? Now that were close to 90% of 2019 TSA numbers, I wouldn't be surprised if we'd actually be at 120% if all the international flying were back.

[skibum]

On 5/29/2021 at 4:56 PM, mcbush said:

Kind of a different question, but any thoughts out there about moving from an AD flying position to a non-flying ARC job?

Don't let COVID fool you. While the airlines took a hit, pretty much everyone saw it as short term. There are bigger issues out there like war and recession/depression. In my experience, the benefit of the ARC flying job is a regular option for full time work when every other pilot is stuck selling insurance.

[HuggyU2]

On 6/7/2021 at 7:06 AM, Royal said:

Now that were close to 90% of 2019 TSA numbers…

One stat I’d like to see is how much of the high end business travel is back. The provide a disproportionate amount of revenue to AAL, DAL, and UAL. 
 

While TSA numbers are trending upward, the revenue from a person buying a full fare First Class to Singapore on a 777 is different than an Economy Basic ticket from SFO to Vegas. 

Edited June 8, 2021 by HuggyU2

[Gazmo]

Went to FL on vacation a few weeks ago and we traveled to on a Wednesday. Overhearing conversation around us, there were quite a few people sitting near us on business trips. Definitely not an official sign that business travel is coming back, but there are definitely people traveling for work. I'd imagine some business travel may never come back, but I really don't think the technology we have is reliable enough to replace the majority of business travel and will definitely not replace the importance of human interaction/collaboration during business meets.

[TreeA10]

1 hour ago, HuggyU2 said:

One stat I’d like to see is how much of the high end business travel is back. The provide a disproportionate amount of revenue to AAL, DAL, and UAL. 
 

While TSA numbers are trending upward, the revenue from a person buying a full fare First Class to Singapore on a 777 is different than an Economy Basic ticket from SFO to Vegas. 

At AA, our international flying is still greatly curtailed. For instance, this month and next, there is no DFW to Asia flying on the 777 and only 1 flight per day to Heathrow vs the normal 3 or 4 and only Buenos Aires on South America. The airline is using the wife body jets to fly a lot of domestic trips like DFW to MIA/JFK/LAX/LAS. I just flew to HNL and we were completely full there and back on a -300 with 310-ish pax. So, domestically, flying is definitely back but not so much internationally. 

[Fast_N_Low135]

Quote

5 hours ago, TreeA10 said:

 wife body jets . 

 

Are we talking 757-200 wife body jets or A380 wife body jets?  There’s a big difference between the two and need to know where your standards lie.

[Day Man]

25 minutes ago, Fast_N_Low135 said:

Are we talking 757-200 wife body jets or A380 wife body jets?  There’s a big difference between the two and need to know where your standards lie.

built for speed or comfort?

 

[TreeA10]

4 hours ago, Fast_N_Low135 said:

Are we talking 757-200 wife body jets or A380 wife body jets?  There’s a big difference between the two and need to know where your standards lie.

I guess I need to choose the correct wife then, don't I. I'd go with the 757 with the Rolls Royce motors. Long legs, big hooters.  Loved flying that jet. 

Friggin' typos......

[ryleypav]

21 hours ago, Gazmo said:

Went to FL on vacation a few weeks ago and we traveled to on a Wednesday. Overhearing conversation around us, there were quite a few people sitting near us on business trips. Definitely not an official sign that business travel is coming back, but there are definitely people traveling for work. I'd imagine some business travel may never come back, but I really don't think the technology we have is reliable enough to replace the majority of business travel and will definitely not replace the importance of human interaction/collaboration during business meets.
 

I work for an automotive supplier, and some recent events have indicated director level management is going to be looking at increasing international travel to get more eyes on things in our plants around the world. Sometimes just having a fresh set of eyes on things makes a world of difference.

[SocialD]

1 hour ago, ryleypav said:

I work for an automotive supplier, and some recent events have indicated director level management is going to be looking at increasing international travel to get more eyes on things in our plants around the world. Sometimes just having a fresh set of eyes on things makes a world of difference.

 

This just can't be true!  I heard it elsewhere (and here) that Zoom will revolutionize the world...everyone stays home, businesses will never travel again...YUGE SAVINGS!!!!  We even had senior leaders on FB saying the airlines won't be hiring "for a long time," (better sign this shitty bonus).  Meanwhile, in addition to all the other airlines hiring, DAL just announced hiring 150/month starting this fall and 200/month next year.  

[Stoker]

Every business is going to try and realize cost savings from teleconferencing in lieu of business travel... Until the first time they lose. $5 million contract to the company that sent their executives out in person for a couple grand. 

[HuggyU2]

On 6/8/2021 at 8:49 PM, TreeA10 said:

 I'd go with the 757...

Loved flying that jet. 

I'm probably the only person that will state this... but of the 737, 757, 767, and 777, I found the 757 the least enjoyable to fly.  

Edited June 10, 2021 by HuggyU2

[TreeA10]

20 hours ago, HuggyU2 said:

I'm probably the only person that will state this... but of the 737, 757, 767, and 777, I found the 757 the least enjoyable to fly.  

You must hate puppies, too!

What I liked about the 75 was the ability to takeoff or land on short runways like SNA, LGA, DCA  or  high pressure altitude airports like Quito or Lapaz with no problems at all. Lots of power even with an engine out.

727 was like a Harley. Lots of smoke and noise. It didn't really climb as much as the curvature of the Earth just fell away over time. 737-800 was a surface departure waiting to happen. 767 was...meh. 787 was a comfy long haul Starship Enterprise-ish ride. 777 lies between the 76 and 78. 

[JeremiahWeed]

On 6/10/2021 at 11:56 AM, HuggyU2 said:

I'm probably the only person that will state this... but of the 737, 757, 767, and 777, I found the 757 the least enjoyable to fly.  

I’m in Huggy’s camp too. I flew them at United but I didn’t know any better. Going back to them after years of flying MD-11s and 777s, I gotta say I’m not a fan. Low tech, low systems automation, pos wx radar, uncomfortable seats and now an after market interface to put speeds on the PFD speed tape so it’s semi-compatible with the 767 LDS. It’s a “Frankenjet” compared to the brand new 767s and 777s Fedex gets delivered almost monthly. The only reason I fly it is I get paid the wide-body rate since our base operates both.  All that said, I still rank the 737 at the bottom of the heap. What a POS.

[Karl Hungus]

On 5/29/2021 at 5:56 PM, mcbush said:

Kind of a different question, but any thoughts out there about moving from an AD flying position to a non-flying ARC job?

I'm an AD Maj looking to punch and go airlines next year, and I've always assumed I'd take a position flying my current MWS in the ARC. Lately though, I've been talking to a friend of mine who's probably 6-7 years further down the road than me. He took an IMA job and wears a uniform maybe 2-3 weeks a year, and focuses most of his energy on flying for Purple. He swears by that lifestyle, but I'm not sure I'm ready to give up military flying completely just yet. Copy that this is largely a YMMV situation, but I see two major benefits of continued flying in the ARC (an easy, comfortable transition away from AD and the ability to drop mil leave as required to take some of the sting out of airline juniority) and one major disadvantage compared to a traditional, one-weekend-a-month ARC position (the need to chase beans and currency resulting in a significant increase in total days worked). 

FWIW, I'm more concerned with QoL than maximizing total pay and I don't have any dreams of chasing an AD retirement in the ARC. I'd definitely like to continue serving, just wondering how much you ARC flyers have found the juice to be worth the squeeze. 

I was in the same spot as you.  Became an IMA and it’s worked out well.  Pre-COVID I was able to telecommute about half of my ATs/IDTs yearly, so about half of the 22-24 total mil days I work per year  That went to full telecommute under COVID… hopefully it stays that way.  It’s a win-win; the AF doesn’t have to pay me for travel/lodging/rental car/per diem, and I don’t have to spend time going to an AF base to do a job I can do almost exclusively from home.  Some things (PHA, etc) won’t be telecommute-able, but I can do those at a closer AF facility to my home.  My unit doesn’t have weekend work.  No such thing as UTAs.  Only currency items are the silly BS everyone in the mil wastes their time on.  I will go almost three years without putting on a mil uniform.  Promotion to 0-5 is more than 90% if you have ACSC done.

I live in an airline domicile, so that factors in.  If you are willing to live at an ARC location versus an airline domicile, that’s different.  Starting on year 2 airline pay, a day working for the mil is at best a wash and most likely a loss compared to what you’d make for your airline.  Picking up a single day trip at my airline pays better and is far more enjoyable, but that’s obviously different for everyone.  
 

The IMA job itself is just… ok.  It’s a means to an end (retirement).  An ARC flying job would definitely provide more camaraderie and perhaps more job satisfaction and better scratch the “serve your country” itch if you have it.  As we all know, some flying jobs and airframes are better than others.  A motivating factor for me was the fact that I will never deploy again unless I choose to.  When a deployment to be the AF Liaison to Vail Resorts to ops check their mil appreciation programs on-mountain for a season pops up, I’m your guy!  Anything less, GFY.  Like I said, never deploying again.
 

[brabus]

14 hours ago, Karl Hungus said:

When a deployment to be the AF Liaison to Vail Resorts to ops check their mil appreciation programs on-mountain for a season pops up, I’m your guy!

Please somebody out there create this job. Guaranteed to retain somebody!

[SocialD]

4 hours ago, brabus said:

Please somebody out there create this job. Guaranteed to retain somebody!

 

They'd still figure out a way to make it painful or otherwise fuck it up...

[brabus]

12 minutes ago, SocialD said:

 

They'd still figure out a way to make it painful or otherwise fuck it up...

The fine print says you can only snow blade while having to ski in a onesie suit designed by AF PA. 

[Gazmo]

+1 for the IMA route if you don't mind hanging up the military flying. ARC is getting more and more like AD, at least in the tanker world. I thought there was a light at the end of the tunnel pre-COVID with the talks of pulling out of Afghanistan, but due to COVID, there were no swapouts out of CENTCOM this year, so everyone did 60's. Guess what. Next year, PACOM is 60 days with no swaps. Show them (AMC) you can do it once and it's hard to go back. I remember when PACOM was a "business effort" with 15-day rotations. Now it's 60-days with staff. The stuff's getting old. I am going into my 19th year and have already been promoted to O-5. If I could find an IMA job to sit in for the next 3-4 years, I'd jump on it in a heart beat. Remember; there are different IMA's (A & B; and I believe there is a C, but I could be wrong). A's give you 48 IDT and 14 AT; B's are 24 IDT and 24 AT. Both will allow you to use TRS for healthcare.

[WheelsOff]

4 hours ago, Gazmo said:

Remember; there are different IMA's (A & B; and I believe there is a C, but I could be wrong). A's give you 48 IDT and 14 AT; B's are 24 IDT and 24 AT.

Care to elaborate for the dummies like myself?

[kaputt]

10 minutes ago, WheelsOff said:

Care to elaborate for the dummies like myself?

IMAs don’t drill like traditional reservists. You get attached to active duty units and work out a schedule with them on when they want you to come support. An IDT is kind of like a drill day though in that 4 hours of work equals 1 IDT. So a CAT A IMA usually works 24 actual days to fulfill that requirement since the active unit is almost certainly going to want you there for an 8 hour day. Just like all other reservists though you still need to do your “two weeks active duty”, so that’s what the 14 day AT requirement is. 
 

The beauty is you can basically schedule it however you want as long as your active unit agrees. I recently transitioned to an IMA role but haven’t finalized my schedule yet. However a former unit I worked in had a CAT A IMA and she would only be in the office twice a year. For like 2-3 weeks max at a time. 

[Gazmo]

IMAs don’t drill like traditional reservists. You get attached to active duty units and work out a schedule with them on when they want you to come support. An IDT is kind of like a drill day though in that 4 hours of work equals 1 IDT. So a CAT A IMA usually works 24 actual days to fulfill that requirement since the active unit is almost certainly going to want you there for an 8 hour day. Just like all other reservists though you still need to do your “two weeks active duty”, so that’s what the 14 day AT requirement is. 
 
The beauty is you can basically schedule it however you want as long as your active unit agrees. I recently transitioned to an IMA role but haven’t finalized my schedule yet. However a former unit I worked in had a CAT A IMA and she would only be in the office twice a year. For like 2-3 weeks max at a time. 

Have you heard of them funding more AT or MPA days for IMA's?

[brickhistory]

It's all about getting a "good" year for retirement purposes.  You must fulfill your IMA category requirements to earn a good year.

AT is AT period.  You only get your 14 days annually for that.  For MPA days, that will depend.  If the office/unit is short-staffed, then MPAs are easy to come by.  It's all about annual funding.  But you also can earn good year points for PME and other stuff.

My last six years were as an AGR.  The rest of the office were IMAs.  I was there for the 24/7 coverage if the bell rang until the IMAs could ride in.  Since it was a 16/7 shift at the FAA's Command Center, it was easy to get orders when guys needed some help during furloughs, etc.

Been years and years since I worked there, but the National Air Traffic Services Cell only hired rated and ATC personnel due to the interface with the FAA.  Was a good gig.

I was also a IMA historian for a bit as well that turned into long-term orders.  I accumulated enough points to ring the 20 year retirement bell just as if I'd stayed active duty.

There are IMAs at Red Flag as well.  It's obvious when they would pull tours and getting extra days wasn't difficult there either.

The point of this wandering is to say that IMAs are in lots of unexpected places.  Talk to a reserve recruiter.

YMMV but IMAs are a pretty good non-flying gig.

[nunya]

If you want to get smart on the atypical Reserve jobs, poke around the RIO sites.  

Edited June 14, 2021 by nunya

[Karl Hungus]

On 6/13/2021 at 8:37 PM, WheelsOff said:

Care to elaborate for the dummies like myself?

Different IMA billets have different “minimums”.  Some have higher minimum IDT amounts (48 vs 24 is typical).  Two IDTs would make up an 8 hour day so it sort of works out to 24 vs 12 “days” of IDTs.  You can very much work only half days, or work an afternoon on day 1 of a string of IDTs and a morning on day X to allow for a commute in and out.  There’s officially zero travel pay for IDTs, but there’s also an annual critical AFSCs list that allows for some travel pay with your IDTs.  Otherwise you’re on your own.  Getting paid, for either the travel pay or the IDT itself, is typical AF incompetence.  Archaic, non-functioning systems supported by lazy, brain-dead civilians/enlisted folks.  Yet I’m supposed to believe we’re gonna actually go to war with the near-peer bogeyman… but I digress.

The 14 days of Annual Tour is sort of set up to be: commute out day 1, work days 2-13, commute home day 14.  There are ways to split up the AT, and/or combine it with IDTs.  AT is 1/30th AD pay/benefits/etc more or less.  Travel is always paid for AT.  Doesn’t mean the archaic systems are gonna get you paid on time, though.  I’d rather telecommute and never step foot on a mil installation again.

A lot of this stuff is unit dependent as to what they expect and how flexible they are.  There are certainly MPA opportunities if you want to exceed your AT/IDTs.  Some people volunteer for those Korea AOC exercises or COCOM duty officer shift work things in addition to their IMA gig… I have no idea if those are good deals or not.  Probably not during this COVID insanity.

Did I mention the best part of being an IMA- never deploying again?