The new airline thread

[nsplayr]

Just wanted to pause for a second and add in before it’s too late that this thread has officially reached an exalted status.

Page 69…nice.

[TreeA10]

On 7/15/2021 at 5:05 PM, StoleIt said:

Well, it would appear AAL is bringing me on to hack a line number (no pay date). I had a CJO from back in March of 2020 that got COVID'd. I'm still on AD and I signed the 3 year bonus a year back. So pretty pumped they are doing this...and smart on their part since I was planning on shopping around with SWA and UAL when I eventually got out (again), but not anymore. 2 years of seniority on day 1 is pretty appealing.

Glad to hear hiring is turned back on.  Hopefully, the food will be better by the time you get here.

[LJ Driver]

Folks, United Airlines had a newhire pilot class start Indoc on Tuesday (27 July). Pilots in that class (and some in other recent classes) were just awarded B777 in the vacancy bid that closed yesterday. That’s pretty decent proof that a) it should be a good time to get to the airlines, and b) the AF is potentially in deep doodoo…

[Prozac]

3 hours ago, LJ Driver said:

Folks, United Airlines had a newhire pilot class start Indoc on Tuesday (27 July). Pilots in that class (and some in other recent classes) were just awarded B777 in the vacancy bid that closed yesterday. That’s pretty decent proof that a) it should be a good time to get to the airlines, and b) the AF is potentially in deep doodoo…

The AF has been in deep shit for a while. They just had a COVID induced loss of sensory information and haven’t been able to smell it for the last year and a half. 

[Springer]

Delta's first group of new pilot candidates arrived at the Pilot Selection office on the Atlanta campus on Aug. 2. These pilots are the first group to be scheduled for interviews since the pandemic halted pilot hiring and are the first to participate in the redesigned selection process. Successful candidates could begin their training classes as early as September. We will hire more than 1,000 pilots by next summer as we continue to rebuild and support the network. We continue to build our pipeline of pilot candidates to support future demand and pilot attrition through our Propel Pilot Career Path Programs, community outreach and partnerships with industry organizations. Employees who wish to recommend a pilot candidate should do so via AirlineApps

Edited August 4, 2021 by Springer

[skibum]

Yeah - airline stuff is hard.

(gotta get in on page 69)

[SocialD]

Two squadron mates submitted their DAL apps and got a call with days.  Get them apps in and/or updated!  

[Danger41]

On 2/28/2020 at 5:39 PM, Danger41 said:

Other than felonies and drugs, I hear the corona virus, the economic fallout from it, and the Max debacle has stopped United hiring. Good info?

 

On 2/29/2020 at 1:16 AM, HuggyU2 said:

No. 

Posted for a hilarious look back.

[AirGuardianC141747]

Best indicator that everything(pax carriers) is coming back at a decent pace = We are starting to hemorrhage pilots at an increased rate as the Big 3 and others start pulling in 75-150 expected newbies a month for quite awhile to curtail all the early retirements, ran back to mil jobs to ride the storm out for a few seasons and those who are sitting out for awhile on half pay, etc. 

I expect us to lose 35 or more this month, even before our arbitrated contract should show itself next month perhaps. Mil folks should be picked up rather quickly and if you want to bump your chances = we have consistently lost bodies to FedEx/UPS forever and the Big 3 is gaining traction. Atlas has a great reputation: “We’ll hook’em, fry’em and clean’em for their next destination.” Some stay like me cuz it’s not just a job, but an adventure - better than the Navy Ad back in the day possibly. Don’t care for pax, always flying in uniform, domestic only (Mexico/Canada doesn’t really count as international), 3-5 legs every day, 3-4AM consistent alarms, etc. But many folks do enjoy the previous and it’s all about lifestyle/$$$. Eye of beholder, make it work for you!

 

[FourFans]

8 hours ago, AirGuardianC141747 said:

Best indicator that everything(pax carriers) is coming back at a decent pace = We are starting to hemorrhage pilots at an increased rate as the Big 3 and others start pulling in 75-150 expected newbies a month for quite awhile to curtail all the early retirements, ran back to mil jobs to ride the storm out for a few seasons and those who are sitting out for awhile on half pay, etc. 

I expect us to lose 35 or more this month, even before our arbitrated contract should show itself next month perhaps. Mil folks should be picked up rather quickly and if you want to bump your chances = we have consistently lost bodies to FedEx/UPS forever and the Big 3 is gaining traction. Atlas has a great reputation: “We’ll hook’em, fry’em and clean’em for their next destination.” Some stay like me cuz it’s not just a job, but an adventure - better than the Navy Ad back in the day possibly. Don’t care for pax, always flying in uniform, domestic only (Mexico/Canada doesn’t really count as international), 3-5 legs every day, 3-4AM consistent alarms, etc. But many folks do enjoy the previous and it’s all about lifestyle/$$$. Eye of beholder, make it work for you!

 

Wasn't last month something above 60 resignations?  In any case, you're spot on.  I will point out that "3-4 AM consistent alarms" would be preferable to sleeping for 10 hours (because I'm exhausted from crossing large bodies of water over and over again) only to get a wake-up phone call resetting me to get called to fly in 10 hours.  That's happened to me at least 5 times in the last 6 months.

Consistency in the scheduling department has a draw all it's own...and our Atlas schedulers leave a LOT to be desired...a cross-eyed lab rat could randomly build a schedule better than some of the buffoonery I've been subjected to this past year.  Couple better schedule with a better pay and work rules, and it's no mystery why people are leaving Atlas as soon as possible.  I love the adventure.  Sadly the complete lack of integrity in the company is destroying the experience for me.

[AirGuardianC141747]

Cannot agree more with FourFans130.

Atlas 74 Perspective 
Cons up front: Lackluster contract (unable to vote on it) well behind Majors/Brown/Purple/SWA, etc., no pure soft pay per say, trip guarantee, DH Pay, international override, etc. Top issues: 17 Day lines, Pay, Retirement/Direct Contribution bottom line. 14 Days Vaca until 5th year 21 Days maximum. Standard gripes Union/Management like most airlines. Gateway travel although nice may cost you a day up front to preposition and a day after return to base which 19 days is plausible. 70-100 days initial training in MIA unless you live or enjoy MIA. *Inefficiencies throughout… 

Some Pros are biased which is undeniable…

Pros: Gateway Travel and hotel accommodations provided; therefore, it’s never your fault or worry getting to work=live almost anywhere U.S. and many live overseas unlike anywhere else. 30 day and 60 day lines = ability to get schedule done and be off for longer periods or chop up the 17 day lines over 2 months with shorter times away and shorter times at home. Sick Leave at this time is a Big Boy program and Doctors note not required. Pay is decent and doing overtime can nab you significant gains using days off. MIA training folks and overtime hounds can pull near half a mil or more working diligently. MIA is super senior. 74 is a comfortable ride, uniform hung at cruise, no FAs, no pax shenanigans, no bathroom break requests. Casual flying around the globe on paid vacation having some good eats &  beverages with friends at interesting venues/locations. Hopefully upcoming “Arbitrated” contract closes the gap to other airlines. Notice I didn’t say equals…

777 More solid scheduled runs predominantly international of course.

76 folks do more airline type schedules every other week or so. Some international but predominantly Amazon and NFL/MLB/AMC Pax charters.

73 side seems like a startup test, unsure what’s really going over there.

If new contract nears $300 mark, has significantly better retirement and keeps some of the TA’d goodness most would stay. My doubts fall on retirement gains…

*Inefficiencies have been a plus on most occasions based upon length of stay at great locations. A few not so great ones.

 

 

[AirGuardianC141747]

We definitely have some knucklehead schedulers and they can pound sand on most 10 hr resets. Worked with some good ones too and worked things out. Been here awhile so they don’t/haven’t messed with me but once this year. Worked 132 days/233 Off last year, no overtime and one attempted extension - not fantastic but very comfortable. Usually bid 15 day trips that are relatively few at my base. Time zone jumping is tough no doubt but speaking for myself I range from 14-24/30+ hrs off in between flights 70% on time and 30% scheduling is on fire. Despite a few back to backs, still  the best if not the most interesting airline type flying out there (my perspective) vs normal shuttling up/downs and/or hub turns of any SORT. Pax moving isn’t on my bucket list, but the AMC runs, etc are unique. Most of my friends at the LCCs or multi-leg carriers state that “it makes the day go fast!” which sounds like work to me while many say 6-12+ hr legs would make them poke their eyes out - Totally get it as it has dragged a few times no doubt, but mostly to be at the next location just chilling and soaking up that environment. Long haul isn’t for everyone and has been my life for 2 decades having had the AF inoculate me since 9/11. Always enjoy going somewhere new (sometimes repetitive), not cookie cutter short haul shuttles (although the triple run out of Korea and back blows I must admit). Prefer 1 leg 12+ hour 4 person crew/dozing for a few dollars, cook, movies, doing other business for 6 hrs or more. What frustrates most is that it could be the Best places hands down but will never be. With a few more clams closer, decent retirement and other benefits we could keep our talent but I will say there are also those that need to move on.

Once again your mileage may vary regarding the above, but it works well for me specifically (fairly senior) and several others. If you have any reservations on being away from the hacienda for even 10 days. DO NOT COME HERE! If you want/need to differentiate yourself for future opportunities we work well for future endeavors! Good luck to all.

 

 

[herkbum]

We definitely have some knucklehead schedulers and they can pound sand on most 10 hr resets. Worked with some good ones too and worked things out. Been here awhile so they don’t/haven’t messed with me but once this year. Worked 132 days/233 Off last year, no overtime and one attempted extension - not fantastic but very comfortable. Usually bid 15 day trips that are relatively few at my base. Time zone jumping is tough no doubt but speaking for myself I range from 14-24/30+ hrs off in between flights 70% on time and 30% scheduling is on fire. Despite a few back to backs, still  the best if not the most interesting airline type flying out there (my perspective) vs normal shuttling up/downs and/or hub turns of any SORT. Pax moving isn’t on my bucket list, but the AMC runs, etc are unique. Most of my friends at the LCCs or multi-leg carriers state that “it makes the day go fast!” which sounds like work to me while many say 6-12+ hr legs would make them poke their eyes out - Totally get it as it has dragged a few times no doubt, but mostly to be at the next location just chilling and soaking up that environment. Long haul isn’t for everyone and has been my life for 2 decades having had the AF inoculate me since 9/11. Always enjoy going somewhere new (sometimes repetitive), not cookie cutter short haul shuttles (although the triple run out of Korea and back blows I must admit). Prefer 1 leg 12+ hour 4 person crew/dozing for a few dollars, cook, movies, doing other business for 6 hrs or more. What frustrates most is that it could be the Best places hands down but will never be. With a few more clams closer, decent retirement and other benefits we could keep our talent but I will say there are also those that need to move on.
Once again your mileage may vary regarding the above, but it works well for me specifically (fairly senior) and several others. If you have any reservations on being away from the hacienda for even 10 days. DO NOT COME HERE! If you want/need to differentiate yourself for future opportunities we work well for future endeavors! Good luck to all.
 
 

The training center scheduling is a nightmare. I waited 5 days between rec ride and checkride. I am now waiting on scheduling to put my last 4 events on the schedule so I can finally go home. Been here 81 days and counting. Looking forward to hitting the line. My observation flight renewed my enthusiasm for getting out of here.


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[SocialD]

One thing I love about my current spot in this gig (which I scoffed when I was flying international) is the ability to bid consistent (early) wakeup times and go to the same destinations.  Last month, every layover was TVC, which is a great place if you've never been.  Besides the huge health benefit of having a consistent sleep schedule, and only flying 1 time zone away, it just feel so much better after my trips.  Early up/early to the hotel means you miss all the mid-afternoon summer storms and get to the bar at a reasonable time and I miss out on reroutes lol.  I've done well over a decade of exciting flying that will never be topped, so I don't particularly care if my work flying is exciting.  I just want to make as much as possible in as few days as possible, so I can enjoy lots of time off.  

 

But that's what is great about this gig, there is a little bit of something for everyone.  Pick your poison or go somewhere you can choose between the two.  I can't deny that living wherever you want is downright awesome.  I know when we had 12 days trips at DAL, commuters absolutely loved them. They did say about half way through the trip they had no idea what day it was or what zone they were in...just when to be ready for sign-in, but they enjoyed the long bouts of time off in a row.  Bid a 12-day early in June, another one in late in Aug, call in sick in July and you had damn near the entire summer off.  Doesn't sound half bad actually. 

 

I hope you Atlas folks get that contract soon, you deserve it!  

[Scooter14]

One thing I love about my current spot in this gig (which I scoffed when I was flying international) is the ability to bid consistent (early) wakeup times and go to the same destinations. 
 
But that's what is great about this gig, there is a little bit of something for everyone. 

This.

I actually hate early wake ups. I live in base and I hate morning traffic. I’d much rather get up, work out, pack up and head out.

So, instead of trying to upgrade to different equipment, I stayed on the one that got me better seniority albeit with lower pay.

The destinations aren’t flashy, but since I’m fairly new at it, the novelty hasn’t worn off. I’m senior enough to hold weekends off, get the showtimes I want, get the layovers I want. My expectations are low so when I do get what I put in for I’m happy.

Like SocialD said, if you don’t get caught up in the rat race, you actually kind of feel better since your sleep is not all over the map. But, if you want that new boat there’s plenty of flying to be had around the clock.

[Lord Ratner]

Find out who the contract masters are. They'll be well-known through whatever online forum your pilots use. Read everything they post. Can them with questions. Learn every hustle out there, including the mechanics of how the contract enables the hustle. You want to know every loophole and strategy in depth, *then* decide what type of pilot career you want.

 

I was lucky, my newhire mentor was a union contract compliance volunteer, so I was given a huge head start, but the information is out there.

 

The three primary ways to exploit this knowledge:

- Maximize pay (Raw earnings)

- Maximize Time Off

- Maximize efficiency (pay earned per actual hours flown)

 

I prefer option three. The more flexible you are, the greater you can maximize the option you choose. This summer has been insane for 737 FOs. As a year-four FO I made 31k in May, 23k in June, and 20k in July. Add 16% for the 401k. In those three months I flew a total of about 70 hours, deadheaded for another 30, and went to annual training. That's somewhere around 5 hours of pay for every hour flown.

 

If I chose option 1, I probably could have done ~30k in June and July. Option two is tough when the airline is undermanned. 

 

Live near a domicile, don't take the early upgrade, and know your contract. Each of those rules will immeasurably improve your Quality of Life.

Edited August 6, 2021 by Lord Ratner

[AirGuardianC141747]

19 hours ago, herkbum said:

The training center scheduling is a nightmare. I waited 5 days between rec ride and checkride. I am now waiting on scheduling to put my last 4 events on the schedule so I can finally go home. Been here 81 days and counting. Looking forward to hitting the line. My observation flight renewed my enthusiasm for getting out of here.


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I guess I wasn’t too far off at 75-100 days. Much more chill on the line. We have some great times and of course challenging moments. Welcome Aboard Herkbum, I hope it treats you right while your here and takes you wherever you desire as a career destination. 

Thanks SocialD, we hope for better. It’s been a long drag out so we need to get this one done so we can plug all the holes for the next one and so on. Works very well for myself, but could be better and on par with industry standards which I use loosely. Cheers to all and just have fun.

 

 

[Prozac]

24 minutes ago, AirGuardianC141747 said:

I guess I wasn’t too far off at 75-100 days. Much more chill on the line. We have some great times and of course challenging moments. Welcome Aboard Herkbum, I hope it treats you right while your here and takes you wherever you desire as a career destination. 

Thanks SocialD, we hope for better. It’s been a long drag out so we need to get this one done so we can plug all the holes for the next one and so on. Works very well for myself, but could be better and on par with industry standards which I use loosely. Cheers to all and just have fun.

 

 

Agree that you guys deserve better. I did a stint there prior to my current gig & enjoyed the hell out of it. Really eclectic & interesting mix of folks (might be a turn off for some, but I enjoyed the “personalities”), exciting flying, and some memorable layovers. But LONG overdue for a contract. Hopefully the company realizes that if it doesn’t want to be a type rating mill it needs to make some BIG improvements to QOL for pilots. 

[FourFans]

On 8/6/2021 at 8:07 AM, herkbum said:

The training center scheduling is a nightmare. I waited 5 days between rec ride and checkride. I am now waiting on scheduling to put my last 4 events on the schedule so I can finally go home. Been here 81 days and counting. Looking forward to hitting the line. My observation flight renewed my enthusiasm for getting out of here.


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For posterity sake: I complete year 1 in three days.  I made GROSS $62,000 (including per diem and COVID pay) in the past 12 months with Atlas.  No VX and only broke guarantee on 2 months (last two months of OE).  I was scheduled to break it on 5 months, but the schedulers do a fantastic job of keeping you right at or below min.  We planned for it and I'm also a reservist.  Without that AFRC paycheck and a big savings buffer, we'd have been hosed.  Plan accordingly, and keep your apps updated.

[herkbum]

For posterity sake: I complete year 1 in three days.  I made GROSS $62,000 (including per diem and COVID pay) in the past 12 months with Atlas.  No VX and only broke guarantee on 2 months (last two months of OE).  I was scheduled to break it on 5 months, but the schedulers do a fantastic job of keeping you right at or below min.  We planned for it and I'm also a reservist.  Without that AFRC paycheck and a big savings buffer, we'd have been hosed.  Plan accordingly, and keep your apps updated.

Airframe?


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[HuggyU2]

On 8/4/2021 at 6:51 PM, Danger41 said:

 

Posted for a hilarious look back.

Yep.  

I posted that a little after midnight on 29 March (a Saturday).  Later that day, the new-hires that were in the class starting 3 March (one is a friend of mine) got the notification that their class was cancelled... and that's when the music stopped.  

Waited for 14 months to start... but at least it didn't affect his line number!

 

 

[FourFans]

7 hours ago, herkbum said:

Airframe?

74

the premier life...seriously.  The rule on the 74 is that you are never more than 6 hours away from a nap (if you want it).

Let me me paint some beautiful awesomeness, because it is NOT all mushrooms and bad management at Atlas...though I still do have my apps updated... (grain of salt)

Pros to take advantage of and enjoy: 

- a pilot group that is ALL about protecting your rights.  You will eventually meet MEN (I mean that with strong emphasis) like J.  You'll know it when you meet J because that guy, is, awesome.  You may not agree with him, but he will break management spins if they even think about bending the rules.  We took off more than 2 hours late without even a second though because of catering rules.  It sounds whiney and entitled (I'm a career herc dude...but yes, it's legit), but for a 16 hour flight, it's not joke, and he was serious about it, and got it fixed.  Long story short: there are men and women in the pilot group here who will bend over backward to make sure you are taken care of.  Moreover, those men and women do actually care about your personal situation, and they make sure, beyond a doubt, that you are taken care of if you bring a issue up...even if you were wildly ignorant on the subject (said from a former mil dude just finishing year 1)

- Epic locations.  That's not understating it.  We stay in epic locations.  TWA hotel in JFK (yeah that ritzy tony stark hotel AT the airport which is built around the legend of TWA that only lazy rich people stay because they don't like the 16 minute cab ride to the airport...yeah...that one).  Incheon: wanna get a great scenic overlook of the bay that 'Merica brought freedom too?...or just an awesome Korean community build on completely reclaimed land?  You're paid to do so.  Kazakstan?  Wait...what?  Yeah.  Kazakstan is a routine layover where our crews spend $40 to go skiing all day (full equipment rental).  Quito Ecuador.  Amsterdam.  Anchorage (many will poopoo this, but for the uninitiated, ANC is really cool, especially in the summer).  Hong Kong.  Narita.  Nagoya.  Sydney. Hawaii. Leipzig.  Ramstein.  Frankfurt Hahn. MultipliemiddleeastlocationsasdeterminedbyAMC.   This company takes you places that NOONE else goes to.  It's a travel nerd's dream.

- Epic aircraft.  747.  767.  777.  (sorry 737 guys...but...not sorry)  These are epic aircraft that pilots wait a full 20 year career to fly.  We get in the left seat in 5 years or less.  Seeing the way things are going...it'll likely be less.

- International Perspective: We have men and women employed at Atlas who have either left their home countries...or who simply accept a long commute...simply to work in a US based company.  I've personally flown with, and learned a great deal from, Peruvians, Columbians, Ukrainians, Finlanders(is that how you say it?), Mexicans, Canadians, Germans, Spaniards, Australians, and Brits....all who live in their home countries because the rules of this company allow it to happen. I think that is AWESOME.  More importantly they bring a thankfulness about the job that most US grown pilots simply don't have.  It's a basic fact I've come across in my travels: Non-US people appreciate the US more than Americans do.  It's refreshing.

- (for perspective...minor cons)...I've also flown with flat earthers, severe anti-vaxers (conspiracy theory dudes...I've got no problem with "it's new and untested" doubters), anti-400er (dudes that seriously miss their flight engineer), and dudes that don't believe in bathing...and I've enjoyed every minute of hearing perspectives that are not from my echo chamber...though sometimes the smells have hurt.

Atlas could be the most epic destination airline for bored airline pilots.  The only reason it isn't is because the senior management has no concept of what "leadership" really means.  Who knows.  Maybe they'll figure it out soon and plant Atlas in the 'amazing airlines' category for good.  It could (and should) happen...just as soon as they replace those senior "leaders"...but who knows. 

FF

[Prozac]

What’s this “Tony Stark” hotel in JFK? Are you telling me Atlas finally left the Five Clowns….I mean Towns? Holy Sheeiiitte. I may have just lost a couple bets. 🤣

[FLEA]

20 hours ago, FourFans130 said:

For posterity sake: I complete year 1 in three days.  I made GROSS $62,000 (including per diem and COVID pay) in the past 12 months with Atlas.  No VX and only broke guarantee on 2 months (last two months of OE).  I was scheduled to break it on 5 months, but the schedulers do a fantastic job of keeping you right at or below min.  We planned for it and I'm also a reservist.  Without that AFRC paycheck and a big savings buffer, we'd have been hosed.  Plan accordingly, and keep your apps updated.

What do you anticipate your pay to go to in your second year? I know the first year in airlines is supposed to be a ball kick but they generally day 2-3 years to recover to AD pay right? 

[Danger41]

14 hours ago, HuggyU2 said:

Yep.  

I posted that a little after midnight on 29 March (a Saturday).  Later that day, the new-hires that were in the class starting 3 March (one is a friend of mine) got the notification that their class was cancelled... and that's when the music stopped.  

Waited for 14 months to start... but at least it didn't affect his line number!

 

 

Happy for him. Sent my line number back several years while simultaneously increasing my AD USAF time 3 years haha.