The new airline thread

[AirGuardianC141747]

7 hours ago, Prozac said:

What’s this “Tony Stark” hotel in JFK? Are you telling me Atlas finally left the Five Clowns….I mean Towns? Holy Sheeiiitte. I may have just lost a couple bets. 🤣

You did, kinda… I hadn’t stayed at 5 Clowns for well over 3 years and we were told it was off the books a few months ago. End of June they booked my fellow FO at the “Tony Stark” but myself at the 5 Clowns which was weird. I could have made the changes, but was curious if anything had changed and nothing had as I checked out with several Big 3 guys and Regional guys who were very cool and not too well rested like me. Definitely Atlas Hotel Appreciation Day, won’t do that again. I am a good franchise player normally unless it involves food and this particular hotel. Next time I will spit out my pacifier make a call and they will pound sand.

[AirGuardianC141747]

23 hours ago, FourFans130 said:

74

the premier life...seriously.  The rule on the 74 is that you are never more than 6 hours away from a nap (if you want it).

Let me me paint some beautiful awesomeness, because it is NOT all mushrooms and bad management at Atlas...though I still do have my apps updated... (grain of salt)

Pros to take advantage of and enjoy: 

- a pilot group that is ALL about protecting your rights.  You will eventually meet MEN (I mean that with strong emphasis) like J.  You'll know it when you meet J because that guy, is, awesome.  You may not agree with him, but he will break management spins if they even think about bending the rules.  We took off more than 2 hours late without even a second though because of catering rules.  It sounds whiney and entitled (I'm a career herc dude...but yes, it's legit), but for a 16 hour flight, it's not joke, and he was serious about it, and got it fixed.  Long story short: there are men and women in the pilot group here who will bend over backward to make sure you are taken care of.  Moreover, those men and women do actually care about your personal situation, and they make sure, beyond a doubt, that you are taken care of if you bring a issue up...even if you were wildly ignorant on the subject (said from a former mil dude just finishing year 1)

- Epic locations.  That's not understating it.  We stay in epic locations.  TWA hotel in JFK (yeah that ritzy tony stark hotel AT the airport which is built around the legend of TWA that only lazy rich people stay because they don't like the 16 minute cab ride to the airport...yeah...that one).  Incheon: wanna get a great scenic overlook of the bay that 'Merica brought freedom too?...or just an awesome Korean community build on completely reclaimed land?  You're paid to do so.  Kazakstan?  Wait...what?  Yeah.  Kazakstan is a routine layover where our crews spend $40 to go skiing all day (full equipment rental).  Quito Ecuador.  Amsterdam.  Anchorage (many will poopoo this, but for the uninitiated, ANC is really cool, especially in the summer).  Hong Kong.  Narita.  Nagoya.  Sydney. Hawaii. Leipzig.  Ramstein.  Frankfurt Hahn. MultipliemiddleeastlocationsasdeterminedbyAMC.   This company takes you places that NOONE else goes to.  It's a travel nerd's dream.

- Epic aircraft.  747.  767.  777.  (sorry 737 guys...but...not sorry)  These are epic aircraft that pilots wait a full 20 year career to fly.  We get in the left seat in 5 years or less.  Seeing the way things are going...it'll likely be less.

- International Perspective: We have men and women employed at Atlas who have either left their home countries...or who simply accept a long commute...simply to work in a US based company.  I've personally flown with, and learned a great deal from, Peruvians, Columbians, Ukrainians, Finlanders(is that how you say it?), Mexicans, Canadians, Germans, Spaniards, Australians, and Brits....all who live in their home countries because the rules of this company allow it to happen. I think that is AWESOME.  More importantly they bring a thankfulness about the job that most US grown pilots simply don't have.  It's a basic fact I've come across in my travels: Non-US people appreciate the US more than Americans do.  It's refreshing.

- (for perspective...minor cons)...I've also flown with flat earthers, severe anti-vaxers (conspiracy theory dudes...I've got no problem with "it's new and untested" doubters), anti-400er (dudes that seriously miss their flight engineer), and dudes that don't believe in bathing...and I've enjoyed every minute of hearing perspectives that are not from my echo chamber...though sometimes the smells have hurt.

Atlas could be the most epic destination airline for bored airline pilots.  The only reason it isn't is because the senior management has no concept of what "leadership" really means.  Who knows.  Maybe they'll figure it out soon and plant Atlas in the 'amazing airlines' category for good.  It could (and should) happen...just as soon as they replace those senior "leaders"...but who knows. 

FF

A superb rendition of where we go and what we do. Super Car hauling, Vehicle Prototypes, Race Horse hauling, cattle and other weird animals (blah), Sports Teams, Bands (Foo Fighters back in the day), Oil rig equipment, Beans & Bullets or much Bigger, etc., etc., etc., and like the other haulers Lobster, Flowers, Mail, e-commerce, Laptops, batteries and everything else under the sun that can hurt you - that last part keeps the pucker factor going. You name it we have probably hauled it aside from the public thankfully. We support Purple/Brown during peak and are currently opening a base if you will at MEM just for this. Yes we don’t fly like any/most of us do/have in the military and we’ll never have the outstanding times among your comrades in the heat of battle or beer but who really even comes close. But FF hit the true diversity of talents, ideas and culture influx of Atlas - we cast a very wide net. No hats, no jackets, just clip on ties (mine isn’t) and very “Casual Friday” wear.

Being away that long at times is not everyone’s ideal situation especially with children and other home requirements so that would totally suck no lie - gotta be home, can’t stress enough don’t even look this way. Couple of weeks off (just me) is very fulfilling. This long haul does take its toll on marriages, etc. and should be weighed heavily. But some of us don’t consider this work compared to the excerpt below from APC “Widebody FO” pg 13 on a Big 3 site posted 7/26/21. This is actual work to most who have experienced this other type of torment so LordRatner’s maximize your pay, time off and efficiency is pure Gold as your focus. SociaID and others have got this down very well. 

“We have to get some of that fixed. A 5 day with 4 10-11 hour layovers is exhausting. Especially at 3 & 4 legs a day.”

It does go on to say with someone replying - “Call Fatigue” which is correct. 

This schedule is not uncommon among most PAX carriers anything less than 5 days means more commute. If you live in base and have always wanted to live there that is the best case of living the dream. Many will say it’s not the norm but they’re fairly senior at times having already dragged thru the salt mines and enjoy much better schedules several years later. Captains running really good schedules out there in 10-15 years on the guppy is great (scarebus would be much better size wise  for me 6’/240lbs) and have memorized freqs, approaches, controller names and the best Latte vendors/eats within 500ft. Travel junkies wait much longer but your travel benefits can be good as some outfits, but no worries your paycheck will cover it well.

STRONG marriage and/or single wanting to see things beyond the military adventure curtain FF said it best. No one does what we do, not saying that’s the smartest thing.

You want 3-4 luxury homes, many sports cars and planes, have 1, 2, 3 x-wives and 5 kids. Big 3, Purple/Brown makes things much easier. Definitely a great deal. Ask any Brown Driver, it’s just a job and they fly almost twice as much as we do in a significantly less amount of time. My friend is a 1995  UPS hire still an FO (Hub stuff) says “I’m butt tired and bent over getting off the plane, BUT they make it easy cuz there’s a pile of cash at the bottom of the stairs so it’s easy to pick up!” $$$$$ He has twin girls so he’s preparing, good for him killing it.

[AirGuardianC141747]

On 8/8/2021 at 12:26 PM, FLEA said:

What do you anticipate your pay to go to in your second year? I know the first year in airlines is supposed to be a ball kick but they generally day 2-3 years to recover to AD pay right? 

Jump from 62K to 82K at the bare minimum. No extra anything… 103K perhaps, guessing on new contract. Total Guess!!!

Well considering he had to endure 3-4 months of training pay around $1600 a month during his first year he will better off. He also was subjected to a 50hr guarantee on year one pay of $87 hr (only 8-9 months of actual flight pay guarantee). 2nd year pay goes to $110 at a 62 hr guarantee on current book (current contract). New contract potential is 2nd year pay $134 or above at 64 hr guarantee or a tad more if lucky above that. Nothing known until mid September but we are ever hopeful for a substantial hike overall. Wow factor probably not, but definitely a better living standard for being paid to travel globally like no one else (only if your into that)

Edited August 12, 2021 by AirGuardianC141747

[Prefontaine]

I've heard to put your apps in one year out from your projected availability date. 

Any harm in submitting them a few months earlier than that?

[Tank]

44 minutes ago, Prefontaine said:

I've heard to put your apps in one year out from your projected availability date. 

Any harm in submitting them a few months earlier than that?

I’m not sure about others but for United, once you get a CJO, it’s good for one year.  Once your application is submitted and there’s nothing to fix, people are getting an invite for the Hogan and if pass that, a call for an interview pretty fast (1-3 months).  
United wants to hire 2200 pilots by the end of 2022.  

[HossHarris]

1 hour ago, Prefontaine said:

I've heard to put your apps in one year out from your projected availability date. 

Any harm in submitting them a few months earlier than that?

Nope. 
 

Realize getting your app to the 69% level is pretty quick. Getting it polished to the 95% level can take a while. Took me 6 months. 

[SocialD]

Two squadron mates just got called within days of submitting their apps to DAL.  One was asked if he could be down there 3 business days later.  Both had an availability date of November.  Put them in and make sure they're polished.  Oh and have all your stuff (sealed transcripts, mil records, etc...) ready for the interview as soon as you hit submit.  Stuff can happen fast.  

[di1630]

Anyone on here fly for Alaska?

[AirGuardianC141747]

Apparently not. Granted the Afghan thread is going strong… Good luck on your endeavors, especially if you plan on living in Alaska that would be great or I guess Seattle, etc. if you can stomach that. Hopefully left coast gets back on track. Having passed thru all of left coast every month for the past year, the mindless ups/downs were Capt InsanO. 

[lufty]

Long time lurker. Gonna retire in a couple years as a MSgt, been a flyer (eng and boom) my whole career, and thought I could get a sanity check from some dudes just like those I've spent almost 22 years flying with. I'm realizing more and more that I'm really going to miss flying and being around airplanes, so I'm seriously considering putting myself through pilot training when I retire. Cost aside (6 figures, I imagine), I'm wondering what those of you flying the line think the landscape will look like in 5 years with regards to hiring trends and an elderly guy like me trying to make it after I somehow scratch together another 1490 hours.

I have no grand aspirations to be in the newest shiniest jets at a major, but how realistic is this? All my pilot buddies that are always scratching for that extra .1 on a 781 is enough to put me in my place...if they're worried about getting picked up, I shouldn't even bother. On the other hand, everything I hate about the AF is what my current future looks like (politics, office work, middle management, 40 hr clock watching, ugghhh).

 

[di1630]

Long time lurker. Gonna retire in a couple years as a MSgt, been a flyer (eng and boom) my whole career, and thought I could get a sanity check from some dudes just like those I've spent almost 22 years flying with. I'm realizing more and more that I'm really going to miss flying and being around airplanes, so I'm seriously considering putting myself through pilot training when I retire. Cost aside (6 figures, I imagine), I'm wondering what those of you flying the line think the landscape will look like in 5 years with regards to hiring trends and an elderly guy like me trying to make it after I somehow scratch together another 1490 hours.
I have no grand aspirations to be in the newest shiniest jets at a major, but how realistic is this? All my pilot buddies that are always scratching for that extra .1 on a 781 is enough to put me in my place...if they're worried about getting picked up, I shouldn't even bother. On the other hand, everything I hate about the AF is what my current future looks like (politics, office work, middle management, 40 hr clock watching, ugghhh).
 

I know a guy who retired as a MSGT, a few years before he got out, worked on his rating with the GI bill, did flight instructing and 5yrs later he’s at the airlines via the regionals route.

Set a goal and go for it. You need to start now though to log hours.

[ItnStln]

14 hours ago, lufty said:

Long time lurker. Gonna retire in a couple years as a MSgt, been a flyer (eng and boom) my whole career, and thought I could get a sanity check from some dudes just like those I've spent almost 22 years flying with. I'm realizing more and more that I'm really going to miss flying and being around airplanes, so I'm seriously considering putting myself through pilot training when I retire. Cost aside (6 figures, I imagine), I'm wondering what those of you flying the line think the landscape will look like in 5 years with regards to hiring trends and an elderly guy like me trying to make it after I somehow scratch together another 1490 hours.

I have no grand aspirations to be in the newest shiniest jets at a major, but how realistic is this? All my pilot buddies that are always scratching for that extra .1 on a 781 is enough to put me in my place...if they're worried about getting picked up, I shouldn't even bother. On the other hand, everything I hate about the AF is what my current future looks like (politics, office work, middle management, 40 hr clock watching, ugghhh).

 

Doesn't some FE time count towards the ATP?

[Sua Sponte]

14 hours ago, lufty said:

Long time lurker. Gonna retire in a couple years as a MSgt, been a flyer (eng and boom) my whole career, and thought I could get a sanity check from some dudes just like those I've spent almost 22 years flying with. I'm realizing more and more that I'm really going to miss flying and being around airplanes, so I'm seriously considering putting myself through pilot training when I retire. Cost aside (6 figures, I imagine), I'm wondering what those of you flying the line think the landscape will look like in 5 years with regards to hiring trends and an elderly guy like me trying to make it after I somehow scratch together another 1490 hours.

I have no grand aspirations to be in the newest shiniest jets at a major, but how realistic is this? All my pilot buddies that are always scratching for that extra .1 on a 781 is enough to put me in my place...if they're worried about getting picked up, I shouldn't even bother. On the other hand, everything I hate about the AF is what my current future looks like (politics, office work, middle management, 40 hr clock watching, ugghhh).

 

Friend of mine is a reserve boom (-135s now -46) and flies for a regional as a pilot. It was a ton of money and hard work, but he loves it.

Edited September 8, 2021 by Sua Sponte

[lufty]

1 hour ago, di1630 said:

I know a guy who retired as a MSGT, a few years before he got out, worked on his rating with the GI bill, did flight instructing and 5yrs later he’s at the airlines via the regionals route.

Set a goal and go for it. You need to start now though to log hours.

Nice, my kids get my GI Bill so I'd be swallowing the entire pill. 

1 hour ago, ItnStln said:

Doesn't some FE time count towards the ATP?

Not sure, I'm not seeing that. I see there is a restricted ATP that allows you to get the rating with less hours if you've med certain education requirements, but degree is in basket weaving and of course the CCAF in Aviation Operations doesn't make the list. 🙄 

 

 

 

[Royal]

16 hours ago, lufty said:

Long time lurker. Gonna retire in a couple years as a MSgt, been a flyer (eng and boom) my whole career, and thought I could get a sanity check from some dudes just like those I've spent almost 22 years flying with. I'm realizing more and more that I'm really going to miss flying and being around airplanes, so I'm seriously considering putting myself through pilot training when I retire. Cost aside (6 figures, I imagine), I'm wondering what those of you flying the line think the landscape will look like in 5 years with regards to hiring trends and an elderly guy like me trying to make it after I somehow scratch together another 1490 hours.

I have no grand aspirations to be in the newest shiniest jets at a major, but how realistic is this? All my pilot buddies that are always scratching for that extra .1 on a 781 is enough to put me in my place...if they're worried about getting picked up, I shouldn't even bother. On the other hand, everything I hate about the AF is what my current future looks like (politics, office work, middle management, 40 hr clock watching, ugghhh).

 

As mentioned, if you still have some GI Bill, it will pay for a significant portion of your training. Unless things have changed, you should be able to count 500 hours of your FE time towards your ATP; that means you'd need a 1000 hours to get picked up at a regional. Piedmont, Envoy, and PSA all just got big bonuses tacked onto their contract. They also have a flow through agreement with American. Plan on it taking 2-3 years before you feel like you're making progress, but it will happen. Good luck.

[Guardian]

Super realistic. And if you enjoy flying, then easy also. It will go faster than you think and whatever the GI bill doesn’t cover for you, you won’t regret paying off later because you are doing what you enjoy.

[FLEA]

Did not know that about FE time. That's awesome. I know some FEs I work with that will be interested to hear that. 

Is that because historically FEs were second officers in the airlines? 

 

[DirkDiggler]

17 hours ago, lufty said:

Long time lurker. Gonna retire in a couple years as a MSgt, been a flyer (eng and boom) my whole career, and thought I could get a sanity check from some dudes just like those I've spent almost 22 years flying with. I'm realizing more and more that I'm really going to miss flying and being around airplanes, so I'm seriously considering putting myself through pilot training when I retire. Cost aside (6 figures, I imagine), I'm wondering what those of you flying the line think the landscape will look like in 5 years with regards to hiring trends and an elderly guy like me trying to make it after I somehow scratch together another 1490 hours.

I have no grand aspirations to be in the newest shiniest jets at a major, but how realistic is this? All my pilot buddies that are always scratching for that extra .1 on a 781 is enough to put me in my place...if they're worried about getting picked up, I shouldn't even bother. On the other hand, everything I hate about the AF is what my current future looks like (politics, office work, middle management, 40 hr clock watching, ugghhh).

 

My community had a SMSgt FE retire about 3-4 years ago; he had his Private/Instrument rating complete when he punched.  He knocked out his Commercial/CFI/CFII/MEI fairly quickly, instructed for a little bit, and is now flying for PSA I believe.  BLUF is it's definitely doable.  Good luck!

[Royal]

45 minutes ago, FLEA said:

Did not know that about FE time. That's awesome. I know some FEs I work with that will be interested to hear that. 

Is that because historically FEs were second officers in the airlines? 

 

My suspicion is that's where it stemmed from. I don't think it was that long ago that new hires at FedEx started out on the panel for the 727/DC-10.

[skibum]

I know several guys/girls who did this with success. Your plan is definitely reasonable. Even if you pay 100% out of pocket you will make it up and  a lot more in the future. You might also consider a sim instructor job for the majors. I know a pile of current/former reserve/guard FEs doing that route. United has a bunch, and Southwest is desperate for sim instructors right now depending on your timeline.

[disgruntledemployee]

A few years back, I had a 60yo in the jumpseat, commuting to training at a regional.  While she had hours flying in her youthier days, this was her 1st Part 121 job.  Hired at 60!

So, two years to go, start now.  Private thru Instrument, CFI by retirement is very doable time wise.  Then what DirkD said...

1 hour ago, DirkDiggler said:

....  He knocked out his Commercial/CFI/CFII/MEI fairly quickly, instructed for a little bit, and is now flying for PSA I believe.  BLUF is it's definitely doable.  Good luck!

 

[ItnStln]

3 hours ago, lufty said:

Not sure, I'm not seeing that. I see there is a restricted ATP that allows you to get the rating with less hours if you've med certain education requirements, but degree is in basket weaving and of course the CCAF in Aviation Operations doesn't make the list. 🙄 

 

 

 

I thought I read that somewhere, hopefully I'm not mistaken. 

[Karl Hungus]

Use your GI Bill for yourself and get your ratings.  Have your kids join the ANG and get TA and their own GI Bill.

Good luck!

[AirGuardianC141747]

As a pilot I had 2 former FE’s in the military flying C-141s with me ( maybe I with them) and one transitioned to LM on C-17s as I did. Both were FE’s on the 747 Classic at Atlas before I arrived. Both of them used 500 hrs towards their ATP and used the companies FE to pilot program allowing them to be 747-400 typed once they had all their ratings and no interview as company employees. They both are Captains senior to me now (one is a Line Check Airman), imagine that. I make them buy dinner as they owe me now during our military times - great guys. There are still a few 747 classic outfits out there which have FE’s of course; thereby employing you on a known quantity while flying on the side. I wouldn’t recommend this, it was just an example of many FE’s up front now. Better to use the route mentioned by others, it is very good info.

Edited September 10, 2021 by AirGuardianC141747

[di1630]

Any southwest guys hear any hiring window rumors?