The new airline thread

[lufty]

Thanks gents, encouraging to hear, the dream is alive.

[Hugo Stiglitz]

On 9/10/2021 at 6:28 AM, di1630 said:

Any southwest guys hear any hiring window rumors?

I’ve heard (but can’t verify) a new round of invites are going out from the previous window. Still doing 2x30-member classes in Dec, beyond that they’re either being tight lipped or don’t know, and that’s coming from a buddy on the hiring team. We do know they have ~250 of the final pilots out on the extended leave to bring back in Jan/Feb plus they’re trying to correct an imbalance by upgrading FOs, so wouldn’t be shocked if there are small (or no) numbers of new hires those months. Then by March it should be on like kong…so if all that guessing is right then I’d spitball the next window would maybe be in Nov. One thing that’s abundantly clear is they’re way understaffed currently for the schedules they want to run, so it’s a good bet there’ll be movement sooner than later!

Edited September 12, 2021 by Hugo Stiglitz

[Ryder1587]

6 hours ago, Hugo Stiglitz said:

I’ve heard (but can’t verify) a new round of invites are going out from the previous window. Still doing 2x30-member classes in Dec, beyond that they’re either being tight lipped or don’t know, and that’s coming from a buddy on the hiring team. We do know they have ~250 of the final pilots out on the extended leave to bring back in Jan/Feb plus they’re trying to correct an imbalance by upgrading FOs, so wouldn’t be shocked if there are small (or no) numbers of new hires those months. Then by March it should be on like kong…so if all that guessing is right then I’d spitball the next window would maybe be in Nov. One thing that’s abundantly clear is they’re way understaffed currently for the schedules they want to run, so it’s a good bet there’ll be movement sooner than later!

Will they use the last window to continue to send invites out until March or will they close it completely once they get the 120 and you have to reapply ?  Is this the last round to go out ?

[Hugo Stiglitz]

18 hours ago, Ryder1587 said:

Will they use the last window to continue to send invites out until March or will they close it completely once they get the 120 and you have to reapply ?  Is this the last round to go out ?

I’m not 100% on their process, but to answer your question they’ll likely do a new window for the post-Dec classes. That won’t change anything on Pilot Credentials, but you’d have to do a new app on ICIMS or whatever that Southwest Careers page is called. I think it saves your previous app, so shouldn’t have to start from scratch at least.
From what I can tell, whenever they open a window they’re targeting specific availability dates based on the classes they already have planned. As they expand classes or don’t offer enough CJOs or have people decline CJOs they might dip back into that pool of applicants to do another round of interviews, but when they announce more classes for later in the year there’ll be a new window since the previous one might have excluded people whose availability was a little later. FWIW when I got hired in 2017 there was just one big window and classes every month. The company says that’s their plan for 2022…I sure hope so. 

[AirGuardianC141747]

Not the “Leading Industry Contract” by any means, but it has some merit. Definitely could have been better in many areas, but some goodness to it as well. Maybe next time, bit by bit I guess.

[AirGuardianC141747]

Before it’s asked: DOS is Date Of Signing. Most likely Oct we think…

[herkbum]

Before it’s asked: DOS is Date Of Signing. Most likely Oct we think…

Should have been effective immediately


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[AirGuardianC141747]

On 9/19/2021 at 3:25 PM, herkbum said:

 

Should have been effective immediately


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You are Correct - True at normal places. Lots of Woulda, shoulda, coulda in aviation: Thru lawyers, company delays and other run arounds, welcome to ACMI and this was done previously as well (10 yrs ago sadly) estimation still Oct. We’ll see… 73 weren’t flying much but have started to ramp up. We’re seeing 73 Capt upgrades at less than a yr mark due to demand/shortages. Hiring and hemorrhaging as normal but this pay increase ranges on 20-35% or more depending on where you sit, some considerably higher than 50% if able to upgrade from the lower platform and 10% was given last year. Still not on par with many, as soft pay is where many differences lie and succeed. 4th week of vacation added, but not until 12th year. No wins in scope or long term disability. Hoped for home basing (no-go) and some other Cheddar, but it was minimal. As always will will hook’m, Clean’m and fry’m faster than anyone for their next gig - at least we’re #1 at something 

Edited September 21, 2021 by AirGuardianC141747

[herkbum]

Well I just came off training pay, so anything is a rather large pay raise. But I would prefer the new rate to be in effect now rather than later.


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[AirGuardianC141747]

14 hours ago, herkbum said:

Well I just came off training pay, so anything is a rather large pay raise. But I would prefer the new rate to be in effect now rather than later.


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Totally on board with that, no one wants a delay in this case and get to the next 10yr contract quicker (hopefully not). I recommended a friend go 737 as he wanted to be domestic initially with mid range kids. Then go 74 like he wanted = Told him don’t let the start pay on 74 $117 drive his decision much as he can do 73 FO $89 for maybe a year and IF things stay the same with his experience jump CA 2nd year thereabouts at $175 and stay domestic 4-5 years with the kids to upgrade 74 at a later date 🤔 maybe, especially as the combined seniority list in Nov will slow upgrades is a solid guess for him. Just a work around if you will. As for yourself, FedEx/UPS and everyone is hiring so you have your choice more so than ever before. I have too much time invested here and dug in like an Alabama Tick. Definitely not for everyone, but the flying appeals to me for various personal reasons. Lazy is one of them.😴

Edited September 22, 2021 by AirGuardianC141747

[AirGuardianC141747]

On 9/21/2021 at 8:39 AM, herkbum said:

Well I just came off training pay, so anything is a rather large pay raise. But I would prefer the new rate to be in effect now rather than later.


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Glad you put that out there in the universe. New Pay Scales retroactive 1 Sept along with new vacation accrual and new min guarantee. Union email came out yesterday. So there’s that. 

Edited September 24, 2021 by AirGuardianC141747

[herkbum]

Glad you put that out there in the universe. New Pay Scales retroactive 1 Sept along with new vacation accrual and new min guarantee. Union email came out yesterday. So there’s that. 

Yep, saw that. Glad I could help the cause!


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[Hugo Stiglitz]

On 9/10/2021 at 6:28 AM, di1630 said:

Any southwest guys hear any hiring window rumors?

Following up, company e-mail from Southwest yesterday said next window is October 1-10 for anyone who might be interested. 

[nunya]

12 minutes ago, merica1776 said:

It seems like UPS/FedEx gets you the most cash, but would an in-domicile pax carrier allow more days home.  It seems like cargo is basically gone 50% of the month but pax is slightly better. Is that accurate?

No.  There are no constants (except "living in base makes your work life easier") and all forecasts are crap.  Everything is cyclic and each carrier has ways to maximize whatever variable you want to maximize. 

[AirGuardianC141747]

2 hours ago, merica1776 said:

It seems like UPS/FedEx gets you the most cash, but would an in-domicile pax carrier allow more days home.  It seems like cargo is basically gone 50% of the month but pax is slightly better. Is that accurate?

Like nunya said: there are no constants. Commuting adds hours if not days back and forth multiple times a month. Big bases are the most solid, but things expand and contract due to the economy bottom line. Just ask Delta when they had a good footprint in CVG mid 2000s and many other carriers, they shrank heavily. But a lot of things come back so seniority is everything. Make your best guess as timing is a big part of it.

Most places it is work, so maximize your pay for the maximum time at home as your happy place. Fly more make more, soft pay, etc. and know your contract.

Edited September 27, 2021 by AirGuardianC141747

[brabus]

Question for cargo guys (out of curiosity): all the cargo guys I know fly a circle around the world for ~14 days straight every month, so anecdotally it seems like that’s the “standard.” Clearly there are deviations from the standard, so curious what those are (besides reserves). Are there options to do a month that look a little more like pax (e.g. 3-4 day trip = transcon to a couple destinations and back home, or similar to one international destination, then back home)? If so, what kind of seniority and rate of occurrence is seen to make these happen?

Edited September 27, 2021 by brabus

[MEMguy]

20 minutes ago, brabus said:

Question for cargo guys (out of curiosity): all the cargo guys I know fly a circle around the world for ~14 days straight every month, so anecdotally it seems like that’s the “standard.” Clearly there are deviations from the standard, so curious what those are (besides reserves). Are there options to do a month that look a little more like pax (e.g. 3-4 day trip = transcon to a couple destinations and back home, or similar to one international destination, then back home)? If so, what kind of seniority and rate of occurrence is seen to make these happen?

I’m at FedEx and live in Memphis. I choose to fly short trips (2-3 days) or out and backs where I’m home either every nite or sleeping in my own house 80-90% of the month. If you’re a commuter (which most of our pilots are), then they tend to bid trips that are 6ish days on and a week off. A lot of them fly double dead heads (or front/backend DHs) to prevent coming thru MEM as much as possible. I’m not aware of too many pilots that circle the world in 14 days with our company but there may be 777 folks that have done so? Regardless with just a smidge of seniority (just about a year) you can literally fly whatever footprint you’d like. It may not be the most efficient or have the nicest pairings, but you’ll be able to fly the days of the month you’d like.
 

Additionally, we have the ability to trade and drop trips that increases your flexibility during the month. And…our vacation system is THE BEST of the airlines. Which is a huge advantage to getting key dates off and knocking out trips.  

[brabus]

@MEMguy Great rundown. I had no desire to circumnavigate the world/fly nights most of the time, so that’s what led me to the pax side. However, seems that part of cargo does not have to be what you always do if so chosen. Too committed seniority-wise now, but wish I would have had this type of input when making decisions 4 years ago. Certainly good info for those still considering the direction they want to take. 

[SocialD]

20 hours ago, merica1776 said:

It seems like UPS/FedEx gets you the most cash, but would an in-domicile pax carrier allow more days home.  It seems like cargo is basically gone 50% of the month but pax is slightly better. Is that accurate?

 

I don't think saying cargo is gone 50% of the month is accurate at all, at least not with what my UPS/FDX buddies are doing.  I would say the most time at home is in-domicile for anyone of the big airlines (which includes FDX/UPS).  I'd also say that the most money is at the airline that allows you to live in domicile.   As an example, I'm on my last 3 day stretch of reserve this month and it's looking good that I won't get used (jinxing myself here lol).  I've only flown one day this month, which was an over time trip I chose to take.  One day of flying, 91 hours of pay and I slept in my bed every night this month.  

Is that typical, not always, but it's not all that uncommon with a little seniority and living in base.  If I were a commuter, I'd likely not bid reserve and resign myself to always being gone 12-16+ days/month.  If I did bid reserve as a commuter, I'd be sweating early reports every evening and have to commute into and sit at the base for any short calls...not fun.  I'd also likely not have as many opportunities for lucrative overtime flying as they often go out with short notice.  

 

Edited September 27, 2021 by SocialD

[MEMguy]

7 hours ago, brabus said:

@MEMguy Great rundown. I had no desire to circumnavigate the world/fly nights most of the time, so that’s what led me to the pax side. However, seems that part of cargo does not have to be what you always do if so chosen. Too committed seniority-wise now, but wish I would have had this type of input when making decisions 4 years ago. Certainly good info for those still considering the direction they want to take. 

@brabus no problem. Your seniority is definitely something to think about. But if FedEx and the lifestyle is what you’re after, please don’t consider yourself pot-committed. I just gave my “PE” (recommendation) to an old Sq buddy who’s closing in on 5 years at UAL. He was hired this summer and starting soon. Captain I’m with now was 10+ years at DAL. Tons of SWA/AA coming over too with varying levels of seniority. But regardless if you’re senior and in domicile with any of the big 6, that’s so tuff to beat. 

[Hacker]

On 9/27/2021 at 7:23 AM, MEMguy said:

And…our vacation system is THE BEST of the airlines. Which is a huge advantage to getting key dates off and knocking out trips.  

I am currently in the middle of a 6+ week period of not touching airplanes for work based on using 11 days of vacation.  Now, it has been mostly during the month of Sept, so not exactly an in-demand period of the year with respect to holidays, school breaks, etc, but that just makes it easier for a generally junior dude like me to hold.  Plus, it is the month of the Reno Air Races, so a good aviation time of year to have off.

 

On 9/27/2021 at 6:53 AM, brabus said:

Question for cargo guys (out of curiosity): all the cargo guys I know fly a circle around the world for ~14 days straight every month, so anecdotally it seems like that’s the “standard.” Clearly there are deviations from the standard, so curious what those are (besides reserves). Are there options to do a month that look a little more like pax (e.g. 3-4 day trip = transcon to a couple destinations and back home, or similar to one international destination, then back home)? If so, what kind of seniority and rate of occurrence is seen to make these happen?

Can't speak for anywhere but Purple, but any monthly schedule type you can find at a pax airline, you can find the same schedule in freight. The single-departure/round-the-world flying is certainly a type of schedule you can find on the fleets that fly internationally, but it isn't even the majority of schedule type at FedEx.

[Springer]

15 hours ago, Hacker said:

I am currently in the middle of a 6+ week period of not touching airplanes for work based on using 11 days of vacation.  Now, it has been mostly during the month of Sept, so not exactly an in-demand period of the year with respect to holidays, school breaks, etc, but that just makes it easier for a generally junior dude like me to hold.  Plus, it is the month of the Reno Air Races, so a good aviation time of year to have off.

During my entire airline career I always bid Sept off and was easy to get no matter my seniority.   I had no squids to consider.  Best time to travel, no crowds, and cooler in Europe. 

[slc]

7 hours ago, Springer said:

During my entire airline career I always bid Sept off and was easy to get no matter my seniority.   I had no squids to consider.  Best time to travel, no crowds, and cooler in Europe. 

Ditto on bidding off Sept.  Flight loads are less, kids are back in school, no crowds, cooler, parks/campgrounds are dead.   

 

Side note: is that pic Grindelwald area?

[TheNewGazmo]

32 minutes ago, slc said:

Ditto on bidding off Sept.  Flight loads are less, kids are back in school, no crowds, cooler, parks/campgrounds are dead.   

 

Side note: is that pic Grindelwald area?

Not sure if it's because we're still running reduced schedules, but I just flew two 3-day trips in the last two weeks and every leg was pretty much full.  Some of them were completely full with very few non-revs.  The airports are still packed.  I think "teleworking" is providing some people (especially ones without kids), the opportunity to travel without taking vacation.

[Prozac]

On 9/27/2021 at 4:53 AM, brabus said:

Question for cargo guys (out of curiosity): all the cargo guys I know fly a circle around the world for ~14 days straight every month, so anecdotally it seems like that’s the “standard.” Clearly there are deviations from the standard, so curious what those are (besides reserves). Are there options to do a month that look a little more like pax (e.g. 3-4 day trip = transcon to a couple destinations and back home, or similar to one international destination, then back home)? If so, what kind of seniority and rate of occurrence is seen to make these happen?

Brown is basically 2 airlines: international & domestic. Fred is similar. On the international side flying heavies, 12 to 14 day worldwide trips are common, but there are options for shorter trips. Long trips = fewer reports: popular with commuters. Shorter trips are somewhat more popular with the folks who live in base. On the intl light twin side there is a similar mix of trip lengths, the difference being most of the flying is intra theater. I.e. you are likely to deadhead to Europe or Asia & remain in that part of the world for the duration of your trip. On the domestic side there is a very wide variety. Turns have you home every night, there are week on/week off trips that often have commercials on one or both ends, and reserve usually yields you a few extra days at home. Domestic is where most of the night sort flying is as well which is why I avoid it. Big picture: there really is something for everyone. One thing to keep in mind about brown is that there is one pay scale regardless of equipment. This means there is no artificial pressure for anyone to “upgrade” to larger equipment if all they really want to do is fly the Bus in the CONUS. This also means that you will “max out” pay much earlier here than elsewhere. Delta may have a slightly higher max wide body pay, but your chances of ever being senior enough to be an international 777 captain there are highly dependent on when, and at what age you get hired. Also, the pension is huge & pretty much non existent outside brown and purple.  Downside being flying on the back side of the clock may mean you don’t get to live very long to enjoy it.