Air Force to begin testing enlisted pilots

[matmacwc]

53 minutes ago, Steve C said:

Shack.  And as has been stated, the AF already has several E to pilot programs.  I ops tested the two-year ROTC program 17 years ago and it worked great, I've been flying fighters ever since.  If you're an E who thinks he's got what it takes GO DO IT!

The airman will debrief his FLUG sortie right after is dorm inspection and rising 4 meeting.

[Stitch]

20 hours ago, matmacwc said:

The airman will debrief his FLUG sortie right after is dorm inspection and rising 4 meeting.

Don't forget Bay Orderly Dorm Manager's Bitch, Pee-pee watcher, Weeds n' Seeds and other basewide bullshit details...

[17D_guy]

4 minutes ago, Stitch said:

Don't forget Bay Orderly Dorm Manager's Bitch, Pee-pee watcher, Weeds n' Seeds and other basewide bullshit details...

This is no shit what the Army is doing with their cyber operators.  2-yrs+ training, finally MQT/IQT...stand road guard detail for Christmas.

 

Our 1B4's which are our enlisted ops dudes is about the same.

[SurelySerious]

43 minutes ago, 17D_guy said:

This is no shit what the Army is doing with their cyber operators.  2-yrs+ training, finally MQT/IQT...stand road guard detail for Christmas.

 

Our 1B4's which are our enlisted ops dudes is about the same.

[dream big]

9 hours ago, Stitch said:

Don't forget Bay Orderly Dorm Manager's Bitch, Pee-pee watcher, Weeds n' Seeds and other basewide bullshit details...

His FLUG will get delayed because he was voluntold to do honor guard for six months (like our loadmasters...)

[Stitch]

9 hours ago, dream big said:

His FLUG will get delayed because he was voluntold to do honor guard for six months (like our loadmasters...)

Then he'll get tagged for another six months of TCN escort duty at some deployed shithole and lectured by some shoe about how important that task is to accomplishing the "mission"...

[fire4effect]

23 hours ago, 17D_guy said:

Thimoreisno shit what the Army is doisng with their cyber operators.  2-yrs+ training, finally MQT/IQT...stand road guard detail for Christmas.

 

Our 1B4's which are our enlisted ops dudes is about the same.

Its Ok. 24 hrs after their enlistment Is up GOOGLE will hire them for more money than a second year Airbus Captain

Edited December 22, 2017 by fire4effect
spellin

[Majestik Møøse]

On December 21, 2017 at 6:51 PM, 17D_guy said:

This is no shit what the Army is doing with their cyber operators.  2-yrs+ training, finally MQT/IQT...stand road guard detail for Christmas.

 

Our 1B4's which are our enlisted ops dudes is about the same.

My favorite conspiracy theory (copyright: me): This why the Air Force's senior enlisted leaders are pushing for enlisted pilots. So a goddamn finance command chief can finally feel like they control Ops guys.

[HU&W]

13 hours ago, Majestik Møøse said:

My favorite conspiracy theory (copyright: me): This why the Air Force's senior enlisted leaders are pushing for enlisted pilots. So a goddamn finance command chief can finally feel like they control Ops guys.

You mean like loads, sensors, BA, and gunners?

Edited December 23, 2017 by HU&W

[flyusaf83]

29 minutes ago, HU&W said:

You mean like loads, sensors, BA, and gunners?

None of which are A codes.  

[HU&W]

1 hour ago, flyusaf83 said:

None of which are A codes.  

True.  Does "Ops guy" = A code?

[dream big]

7 hours ago, HU&W said:

True.  Does "Ops guy" = A code?

Negative, A code means pilot in command.  There are rare instances where the aircraft commander has more power than a SQ/CC, which is necessary to literally protect the crew.  That ability goes away real quick when said aircraft commander is suddenly outranked by most of the Air Force.  

Enlisted -> OTS -> UPT is awesome, I think it’s fantastic when for example crew chiefs commission and go fly the aircraft they worked on.  Enlisted pilots without even going through the full extent of UPT is a recipe for disaster.

[YoungnDumb]

Think they'll have enlisted FAIP's?  I'm mostly joking...

[HU&W]

Turns out, the plan is to make flying 'fun'?

https://www.defensenews.com/news/your-air-force/2018/01/16/virtual-skies-air-force-hopes-fun-tech-transforms-pilot-learning/

[flyusaf83]

My worry is that the AF will label this experiment as a success no matter what.  I can’t see how having dudes sit around and play fancy video games is going to do a better job of teaching them to fly airplanes than flying airplanes.

But, this could prove a way for the AF to increase “pilot” production faster than UPT can, and then we can fill vacant cockpits with hordes of video gamers with wings on their chests.  The slides at AFPC will certainly be more green.

What could possibly go wrong?

[RTB]

38 minutes ago, flyusaf83 said:

My worry is that the AF will label this experiment as a success no matter what.  I can’t see how having dudes sit around and play fancy video games is going to do a better job of teaching them to fly airplanes than flying airplanes.

But, this could prove a way for the AF to increase “pilot” production faster than UPT can, and then we can fill vacant cockpits with hordes of video gamers with wings on their chests.  The slides at AFPC will certainly be more green.

What could possibly go wrong?

It's been said over and over but there's simply no way to replace the inherent stress of the actual cockpit - heat, sweat, JP-8 exhaust, noise, G's, shitty radios, garbaged up comm, and on an on.  And of course the knowledge that if you screw up you could wreck an actual machine or kill an actual person, including yourself.  Simulation can certainly teach some skills, but you just can't replace the experience of being in an aircraft with all the external and internal stressors.  Sure, you can safely fly an airplane with fewer hours but your experience bank will be that much smaller and you'll be a worse pilot for it.  

Bad bad idea.  And it will be hailed as a great success.  

Edited January 18, 2018 by RTB

[SPAWNmaster]

Completely anecdotal but worth mentioning:

In my Fort Rucker class we had a guy we'll call Ryan. The kid just could not hover. Maybe his instructor wasn't the right match, couldn't make the right connections for him, whatever. Or maybe the syllabus didn't afford Ryan the time and free space to focus on his weak area when we had a full list of other contact maneuvers to work on. Trying to be a bro, I invited Ryan over to put on my HTC Vive and I spun up the most accurate flight model for a Huey I could find (DCS Huey for the record). We spent a good hour drilling the required control inputs and hand-eye exercises demonstrating the various aerodynamic phenomena involved in hovering (and make no mistake for those who haven't flown a helicopter, hovering is all experimentation and feel till you get it.) No shit, within that hour something finally clicked and Ryan was getting it. The next day we saw that kid hover the way he was meant to in the helicopter and it wasn't a problem from then on.

I bring up this story because I can see how as a function of part-task training, you could easily accelerate learning for very specific skill sets in undergraduate training using technology. To the extent that these accelerative events would add up to producing an extra pilot (or however many extra pilots) without sacrificing quality is obviously the big question. I'm just saying that I can see how there is value in holding the experiment.

Edited January 19, 2018 by SPAWNmaster

[matmacwc]

Students help other students, its great, but be careful, I've seen it go terribly wrong before.  If UPT was 3 years long, everyone would get through it, but that isn't the point.

[raimius]

Sims and training devices are great for procedural training and aspects that take diagnosis of known symptoms (EPs, etc).  They can't quite replicate all the other airmanship issues that pop up, and are rarely good for "hands" skills (STS).  So, yes, they can cut flight time to attain a certain level of performance, but cannot replace it completely.  We've known this for years, but the question is what is the proper balance. 

[YoungnDumb]

Let's all be honest, the AF is going to massively overshoot on how much sim time these kids get because of the AF's hard on for technology.  It will take something severe before the AF leadership decides its fixation with things other than flying is misplaced.

[Duck]

Students help other students, its great, but be careful, I've seen it go terribly wrong before.  If UPT was 3 years long, everyone would get through it, but that isn't the point.

You old timer! That IS the point now. Short of a major mental breakdown... everyone gets something!

It will be sad to see what happens in the next 5 year with respect to Class As.

[matmacwc]

3 hours ago, Duck said:

Short of a major mental breakdown... 

Seen that too.