Commanders are dropping like flies this year

[Right Seat Driver]

Update on the firing of the 375 AMW/CC.

Fired Air Force wing commander charged with sexual assault, cruelty.

[Azimuth]

7 hours ago, Right Seat Driver said:

Update on the firing of the 375 AMW/CC.

Fired Air Force wing commander charged with sexual assault, cruelty.

Here's my guess:

Had a sexual relationship with said SrA. Someone turned them in, she got called into OSI to be interviewed. She either admitted to it, but freaked out and lied saying he assaulted her, or she lied and said it never happened, was confronted with evidence, then lied and said he assaulted her. She then tells a story about how "powerless" she felt for having said sexual relationship and that he harassed her (Maltreatment). They throw on the fraternization for banging (she admitted that something sexual happened either with or without consent) and the standard conduct unbecoming.

Predictions: He gets acquitted of the sexual assault, gets acquitted of one of the maltreatment charges. Found guilty of the other maltreatment (saying sexual comments), conduct unbecoming, and fraternization.

Sentence: Dismissal, maybe some forfeiture of pay. No confinement.

She gets an assignment of wherever she wants to go via an expedited transfer, no punishment for possibly lying if she did. She'll also rate a VA disability for Military Sexual Trauma, even if he's acquitted of the charges. He joins a long line of us who were falsely accused of sexual assault, acquitted of it, however lost our careers anyway. Senator Gillibrand and that annoying mouthpiece of Protect Our Defenders, Don Christensen, will claim it as a victory towards sexual assault reform and the fact he's a Colonel and former Wing Commander will given them strength to influence to have the UCMJ changed and have more authority stripped from the commanders and make sure the accused has even less rights and due process. Christensen is the former Air Force prosecutor who tried then Lt Col Wilkerson for sexual assault, which ultimately cost the 3 AF/CC his career, Lt Gen Franklin.

Edited June 3, 2018 by Azimuth

[Right Seat Driver]

2 hours ago, Azimuth said:

Here's my guess:

Had a sexual relationship with said SrA. Someone turned them in, she got called into OSI to be interviewed. She either admitted to it, but freaked out and lied saying he assaulted her, or she lied and said it never happened, was confronted with evidence, then lied and said he assaulted her. She then tells a story about how "powerless" she felt for having said sexual relationship and that he harassed her (Maltreatment). They throw on the fraternization for banging (she admitted that something sexual happened either with or without consent) and the standard conduct unbecoming.

Predictions: He gets acquitted of the sexual assault, gets acquitted of one of the maltreatment charges. Found guilty of the other maltreatment (saying sexual comments), conduct unbecoming, and fraternization.

Sentence: Dismissal, maybe some forfeiture of pay. No confinement.

She gets an assignment of wherever she wants to go via an expedited transfer, no punishment for possibly lying if she did. She'll also rate a VA disability for Military Sexual Trauma, even if he's acquitted of the charges. He joins a long line of us who were falsely accused of sexual assault, acquitted of it, however lost our careers anyway. Senator Gillibrand and that annoying mouthpiece of Protect Our Defenders, Don Christensen, will claim it as a victory towards sexual assault reform and the fact he's a Colonel and former Wing Commander will given them strength to influence to have the UCMJ changed and have more authority stripped from the commanders and make sure the accused has even less rights and due process. Christensen is the former Air Force prosecutor who tried then Lt Col Wilkerson for sexual assault, which ultimately cost the 3 AF/CC his career, Lt Gen Franklin.

There are definitely two sides to the story. I don't have any expanding data at all on what is going on, but wanted to post an update. This will be an interesting case for sure.

[ThreeHoler]

Considering the guy was kicked out of SOS for cheating...among many other shady things as a CGO...color me not surprised at the charges.

He just finally got caught.

[magnetfreezer]

Considering the guy was kicked out of SOS for cheating...among many other shady things as a CGO...color me not surprised at the charges.

He just finally got caught.

I'm guessing that would generate a referral training report at the very least - was he already designated as golden/protected that young or are we just that skosh on options for AMC wing commanders?

[Chuck17]

1 hour ago, magnetfreezer said:

2 hours ago, ThreeHoler said:

Considering the guy was kicked out of SOS for cheating...among many other shady things as a CGO...color me not surprised at the charges.

He just finally got caught.

I'm guessing that would generate a referral training report at the very least - was he already designated as golden/protected that young or are we just that skosh on options for AMC wing commanders?

Nah this guy did umpty ump tours as an AFPak HANDS and came out of those as a poster child... Didn’t work out like his Senior Rater thought, I’d imagine...

Chuck

[Azimuth]

1 hour ago, magnetfreezer said:

2 hours ago, ThreeHoler said:

Considering the guy was kicked out of SOS for cheating...among many other shady things as a CGO...color me not surprised at the charges.

He just finally got caught.

I'm guessing that would generate a referral training report at the very least - was he already designated as golden/protected that young or are we just that skosh on options for AMC wing commanders?

Tuck is starting to run out of Wing/CC’s to fire.

[Homestar]

11 hours ago, Azimuth said:

She either admitted to it, but freaked out and lied saying he assaulted her, or she lied and said it never happened, was confronted with evidence, then lied and said he assaulted her.

So no matter what really happened she lied? What a bizarre thing to write. Really no matter what happened if an O-6 is screwing an E-3 the O-6 deserves to be fired whether there is consent or not. 

[ThreeHoler]

I'm guessing that would generate a referral training report at the very least - was he already designated as golden/protected that young or are we just that skosh on options for AMC wing commanders?

It did. A later commander who thought this guy was good had it expunged from his record.

[flyusaf83]

6 hours ago, ThreeHoler said:

Considering the guy was kicked out of SOS for cheating...among many other shady things as a CGO...color me not surprised at the charges.

He just finally got caught.

Just why in the F would someone cheat at SOS?  Anyone who wants DG that much should choke themselves.

[pawnman]

10 hours ago, ThreeHoler said:

Considering the guy was kicked out of SOS for cheating...among many other shady things as a CGO...color me not surprised at the charges.

He just finally got caught.

That was kind of my gut feeling.  You don't just start abusing people suddenly, twenty years into your career.

[nsplayr]

18 hours ago, Azimuth said:

Here's my guess:

Had a sexual relationship with said SrA. Someone turned them in, she got called into OSI to be interviewed. She either admitted to it, but freaked out and lied saying he assaulted her, or she lied and said it never happened, was confronted with evidence, then lied and said he assaulted her. She then tells a story about how "powerless" she felt for having said sexual relationship and that he harassed her (Maltreatment). They throw on the fraternization for banging (she admitted that something sexual happened either with or without consent) and the standard conduct unbecoming.

Since we're speculating from the peanut gallery...how about Occam's Razor: he did the crime as described. Anyone who tried to cheat at SOS and volunteered for AFPAK Hands should get their head checked anyways.

 

Edited June 4, 2018 by nsplayr

[Azimuth]

7 hours ago, Homestar said:

So no matter what really happened she lied? What a bizarre thing to write. Really no matter what happened if an O-6 is screwing an E-3 the O-6 deserves to be fired whether there is consent or not. 

No, that's my own personal assumption without knowing any of the intricate details of the case. Article 120 has had around a 70% acquittal rate in the USAF. Why? Because B.S. cases are sent to court martials, regardless of the truthfulness of the allegation. A bizarre thing to write is saying the guy cheated in SOS, so therefore being charged with sexual assault and maltreatment doesn't raise an eyebrow. 

An O-6 fired for fucking an E-4? Sure. Does said O-6 need to be court martialed over it? Debatable. I've seen people beat their spouse and get DUI's (actual crimes in the civilian world) and get an Art 15.

[HeloDude]

2 hours ago, Azimuth said:

I've seen people beat their spouse and get DUI's (actual crimes in the civilian world) and get an Art 15.

Are you suggesting those are not crimes in the military?

[Azimuth]

8 minutes ago, HeloDude said:

Are you suggesting those are not crimes in the military?

They are, they just can be dealt with as a Art 15, which isn’t a misdeameanor or a felony, unlike the civilian world.

[pawnman]

9 hours ago, HeloDude said:

Are you suggesting those are not crimes in the military?

You reversed the point.  The point was that those are crimes that everyone agrees should be punished, as opposed to the military-only crime of fraternization.  The lowliest intern at FB could sleep with Mark Zuckerberg and it wouldn't be a crime.

[Azimuth]

53 minutes ago, pawnman said:

You reversed the point.  The point was that those are crimes that everyone agrees should be punished, as opposed to the military-only crime of fraternization.  The lowliest intern at FB could sleep with Mark Zuckerberg and it wouldn't be a crime.

It wouldn’t be a crime, however you could lose your job since most companies have buisness ethics training that warn against that. However, you aren’t possibly going to prison over it.

 

[HeloDude]

2 hours ago, pawnman said:

You reversed the point.  The point was that those are crimes that everyone agrees should be punished, as opposed to the military-only crime of fraternization.  The lowliest intern at FB could sleep with Mark Zuckerberg and it wouldn't be a crime.

So where is your frustration: That fraternization is not allowed per the UCMJ or that you can actually be punished for fraternization (per the UCMJ)?  I can also show up to work at FB drunk and it wouldn't necessarily be a crime...in the military, not so much.

As much as there are many things with the military, the AF, the UCMJ that I disagree with, the standards are the standards.  No one was forced to join.

[Azimuth]

6 minutes ago, HeloDude said:

So where is your frustration: That fraternization is not allowed per the UCMJ or that you can actually be punished for fraternization (per the UCMJ)?  I can also show up to work at FB drunk and it wouldn't necessarily be a crime...in the military, not so much.

As much as there are many things with the military, the AF, the UCMJ that I disagree with, the standards are the standards.  No one was forced to join.

Standards are standards if they unilaterally were applied fairly, however they aren’t. How much jail time did Archie Licht do for fucking a subordinate O-6 on his staff or John Hesterman do for sending dirty emails to a Vice Wing Commander’s wife and assigning said Vice Wing Commander by him so he could visit his wife? Oh, they both retired as GO’s? Oh, okay.

Different spanks for different ranks.

[jrizzell]

Update on the firing of the 375 AMW/CC.

Fired Air Force wing commander charged with sexual assault, cruelty.

I know there will be the inevitable “he said, she said” aspect of this. Regardless, is there any reason we should be trying to excuse a married O-6 Commander having any type of physical relationship with a SrA...

 

[JeremiahWeed]

26 minutes ago, jrizzell said:

Regardless, is there any reason we should be trying to excuse a married O-6 Commander having anytype of physical relationship with a SrA...

Mmmmmmaaaayyybe........  Is she hot? 😀

[brickhistory]

Don't do the help...

[HeloDude]

8 hours ago, Azimuth said:

Standards are standards if they unilaterally were applied fairly, however they aren’t. How much jail time did Archie Licht do for fucking a subordinate O-6 on his staff or John Hesterman do for sending dirty emails to a Vice Wing Commander’s wife and assigning said Vice Wing Commander by him so he could visit his wife? Oh, they both retired as GO’s? Oh, okay.

Different spanks for different ranks.

So are you upset that people are charged when violating the UCMJ or that not everyone is charged for violating the UCMJ?  I get the second part, but that in no way excuses people who are charged for an alleged crime.

[JeremiahWeed]

26 minutes ago, HeloDude said:

I get the second part, but that in no way excuses people who are charged for an alleged crime.

So....... being charged is enough?  No slack if they end up acquitted?😉  Maybe you meant convicted.  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nwrvDBmoaXo

Also, what is an "alleged crime"?   A crime that hasn't actually been proven to be a crime?

 

[HeloDude]

21 minutes ago, JeremiahWeed said:

So....... being charged is enough?  No slack if they end up acquitted?😉  Maybe you meant convicted.  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nwrvDBmoaXo

Also, what is an "alleged crime"?   A crime that hasn't actually been proven to be a crime?

 

No...I was referring to being charged for an alleged crime vs not being charged for an alleged crime.  Once someone is acquitted then it's a nothing burger.

And an alleged crime refers to not yet being convicted or acquitted when substantiated evidence shows there is reason to prosecute.  I'm not an attorney, but I did stay in a Holiday Inn Express last night.