Pilot Shortage Deepens, USAF is SCREWED.

[Duck]

From what I saw at the wing, half the people sent to white jets where fine pilots.   The other half were the people that get passed around from base to base so that they're someone else's problem.  Just the type we want teaching new guys!

Having been a PIT IP, you are totally right. Typically, the guys who volunteered to go to white jets were phenomenal instructors. The guys who were “screwed one way or another” typically were bottom dwellers in their community who no one wanted around.

[Lord Ratner]

For some reason tac form turned the T-6 into a flying barany chair.

Probably because people were doing full hook turns by staring at their heading bug

 

[matmacwc]

Back on topic:

https://warontherocks.com/2018/03/air-force-in-crisis-part-iii-dear-boss-its-all-about-the-culture/

[Herkasaurus]

On 3/13/2018 at 8:49 AM, MDDieselPilot said:

Where is said thread? 

Military Aviation — ANG/AFRC — Palace Chase Info 

[YoungnDumb]

3 hours ago, Lord Ratner said:

On 3/14/2018 at 5:54 PM, otsap said:

For some reason tac form turned the T-6 into a flying barany chair.

Probably because people were doing full hook turns by starting at their heading bug

Wait, is that not procedure? 

[Bergman]

On 3/15/2018 at 5:22 PM, matmacwc said:

Back on topic:

https://warontherocks.com/2018/03/air-force-in-crisis-part-iii-dear-boss-its-all-about-the-culture/

Is there a way we can print this, laminate it, and send it certified mail to Gen Goldfein to ensure he gets it?  Then hold his Exec's family hostage at gunpoint until he makes the general actually READ it.

[Bird12]

I knew there was a pilot shortage but these details blow my mind. I'm headed to Sheppard in May and this thread has me thinking I'm walking into a shit show on AD. Sounds like it's gonna be 11-12 yrs of flying 1-2 times a week, being frustrated with leadership, and watching dudes leave in droves for the airlines. Excited to work through initial training for 13 months (plus FTU etc.) to join this club 

 And I can absolutely confirm that avg, PCSMs and general stats are down, and when you're taking 600+ cadets in a board you can bet it takes a lot to make the average move a little. Just saw a couple guys who were ranked near the bottom of their class of 30 for quite some time  for attitude, PT performances, and just general competency get pilot slots. Other guys with PCSMs in the teens and 20s keep getting slots, too. Combine that with the gutting of the SUPT syllabus and the aged state of the AF fleet, and we're in for a multi-decade safety and readiness rodeo. Though this is all based on my extremely rudimentary civilian/cadet understanding, of course. 

Worries aside I am excited as hell, it just sure does seem like big blue is trending south, hard. 

[matmacwc]

My guess is his exec's have seen it and showed it to him.

[Right Seat Driver]

31 minutes ago, matmacwc said:

My guess is his exec's have seen it and showed it to him.

Serious question. What rank are his execs and are they flyers?

[mcbush]

I would think at least O-5s, maybe O-6s. Know a guy (pilot) who got picked up to be a MAJCOM/CC’s exec as an O-5.

Edit: to clarify, said dude was a graduated Sq/CC who put on O-6 soon after.

Edited March 17, 2018 by mcbush

[ThreeHoler]

I would think at least O-5s, maybe O-6s. Know a guy (pilot) who got picked up to be a MAJCOM/CC’s exec as an O-5.
Edit: to clarify, said dude was a graduated Sq/CC who put on O-6 soon after.

There is usually an O-6 “chief exec” then two or so regular exec O-5s and sometimes a peon exec at O-4.

[HU&W]

17 hours ago, matmacwc said:

My guess is his exec's have seen it and showed it to him.

The question isn't if they showed it to him.  They almost certainly did.  My question is which passages did they highlight/extract into the BLUF.  Those who pare and control content also control the conversation.

Edited March 18, 2018 by HU&W

[di1630]

Worries aside I am excited as hell, it just sure does seem like big blue is trending south, hard. 

Holy hell, maybe it’s the 4.5 hours I just spent in an ejection seat and only spent 15 seconds upside down but F-ck me!!!!

Us old salty sport b-tching bastards have complained so much we have UPT bound cadets worried.

Alright Bird12, listen up, because you are wrong. If anything the ship is righting itself from what I see, but Us old dudes were on board when it was sinking so different view

People on here have generally been/there, done that, diverse backgrounds/experiences.

I get tired of my buddies b-tching about the same things I’m bitching about in the sq bar over the same brand of scotch so I read this forum.

I want to hear how lousy the poor bastard flying the other jet has it so I can feel better -or- how good he has it so I can complain that community x gets all the good deals and wtf was I thinking taking the bonus because xx is at delta making $xx and here the f-ck I am getting $3.50 per day not allowed to drink beer on St Paddy’s day.

Sport bitching is in fact a sport among pilots. (Hence the name)

Very few of us really hate our jobs or the USAF.

Perspective.

I had a brand new straight out of MQT Lt on my wing in the AO, we flew a 4.5 hr mission full of in my opinion, sh-tty taskings, sh-tty scenery, sh-tty tankers, ATC, well you name it, to me it was all sh-t minus the 2 x barrel rolls in the descent.

When we got out of the jet I wanted to apologize for his first sortie in the AO being so sh-tty.

He was smiling ear to ear. My sh-tty 200th AAR was his first on that type of tanker. My sh-tty 200th time over the desert was his first. He loved it

See my point.

So you f-cking should be excited bird12, you got a chance at the coolest job in the world.

Keep some perspective and know who you are listening to on this forum.

If I were in your shoes I’d pay good money for the flight I did today however at my age/experience I’d just assume send someone else so I could sit in ops, drink coffee and complain about how f-cking stupid the USAF leadership is, how I’m not getting paid enough, how cool the Cold War days were, how great the airlines are according to my friends etc.

Out

[SurelySerious]

 

 

 

 

Well said. 

[dream big]

22 hours ago, Bird12 said:

I knew there was a pilot shortage but these details blow my mind. I'm headed to Sheppard in May and this thread has me thinking I'm walking into a shit show on AD. Sounds like it's gonna be 11-12 yrs of flying 1-2 times a week, being frustrated with leadership, and watching dudes leave in droves for the airlines. Excited to work through initial training for 13 months (plus FTU etc.) to join this club 

 And I can absolutely confirm that avg, PCSMs and general stats are down, and when you're taking 600+ cadets in a board you can bet it takes a lot to make the average move a little. Just saw a couple guys who were ranked near the bottom of their class of 30 for quite some time  for attitude, PT performances, and just general competency get pilot slots. Other guys with PCSMs in the teens and 20s keep getting slots, too. Combine that with the gutting of the SUPT syllabus and the aged state of the AF fleet, and we're in for a multi-decade safety and readiness rodeo. Though this is all based on my extremely rudimentary civilian/cadet understanding, of course. 

Worries aside I am excited as hell, it just sure does seem like big blue is trending south, hard. 

I love military aviation,  I hate most parts of the Air Force...if you can know the difference and focus on what you value, you will have a fulfilling career.

[BashiChuni]

23 hours ago, Bird12 said:

Combine that with the gutting of the SUPT syllabus 

Please tell me more about your expertise on the SUPT syllabus. I’m very intrigued and impressed 

[DirtyFlightSuit]

Bird your not walking into any thing of a shit show, your first 10 years of flying will be great in general with only the saltyness starting to creep in near the last year or two as you realize your future looks nothing like your past 10 years.  That is what primarily we are complaining about not how it was for Lts through Captain (aside from lame additional duties), but what we have to look forward to now that we are O-4's + looking down the barrel of non flying deployments/jobs/more time away from family just when time with your family actually starts to mean something (kids), etc.   I'd do it again in a heartbeat, I just can't stay in given current conditions at where I am at and am looking to go.

 

 

Edited March 18, 2018 by DirtyFlightSuit

[zmoney]

55 minutes ago, DirtyFlightSuit said:

Bird your not walking into any thing of a shit show, your first 10 years of flying will be great in general with only the saltyness starting to creep in near the last year or two as you realize your future looks nothing like your past 10 years.  That is what primarily we are complaining about not how it was for Lts through Captain (aside from lame additional duties), but what we have to look forward to now that we are O-4's + looking down the barrel of non flying deployments/jobs/more time away from family just when time with your family actually starts to mean something (kids), etc.   I'd do it again in a heartbeat, I just can't stay in given current conditions at where I am at and am looking to go.

 

 

2

[flyusaf83]

3 hours ago, DirtyFlightSuit said:

Bird your not walking into any thing of a shit show, your first 10 years of flying will be great in general with only the saltyness starting to creep in near the last year or two as you realize your future looks nothing like your past 10 years.  That is what primarily we are complaining about not how it was for Lts through Captain (aside from lame additional duties), but what we have to look forward to now that we are O-4's + looking down the barrel of non flying deployments/jobs/more time away from family just when time with your family actually starts to mean something (kids), etc.   I'd do it again in a heartbeat, I just can't stay in given current conditions at where I am at and am looking to go.

 

 

I disagree with this analysis, based on my anecdotal experience.  I see saltiness creeping into the perspective of newly minted copilots in my community.  They get into the squadrons and are stunned by how little flying matters in flying squadrons.  They are disappointed in being shackled with additional duties.  I’d say half of our pilots are firmly in the GTFO pool before they finish the first 5 years of their ten year ADSC.

Of the half that do stay blue into the mid-level Captain stage..  this is when they get shackled with flight commander or shop chief level add’l duties.  They also start getting hit with non-flying 179s.  They are still 2-4 years from their UPT ADSCs, but firmly join the crowded GTFO pool. I’d say 8/10 pilots in my community are there by year 8 of their commitment.

Around the senior Capt or junior Maj level, you’re down to the the shiny pennies who would rather masturbate to their OPR strats than fly.  And some guys who are awful pilots and won’t get airline jobs.  These are the few who stay in.

 

 

Edited March 18, 2018 by flyusaf83

[hindsight2020]

4 hours ago, dream big said:

I love military aviation,  I hate most parts of the Air Force...if you can know the difference and focus on what you value, you will have a fulfilling career.

Thank you Captain Obvious, but that's not what is in dispute. If it were so simple, we wouldn't have the retention problem we have. I find it incredible that this would have to be re-stated, but the punchline here is that:  you dont get the goddamn latitude to exercise the discretion you're talking about in the first place as a 12+ year guy. What part of indentured servitude don't you understand? As has been stated before, slick wing O-3 and younger, by all means you can nap of the earth and focus on flying with a large level of success. But beyond that, especially as demands on family and children start to encroach into the demands of the job? Poof goes that fantasy about scoffing at the qweep unabated and just focusing on the love for "military aviation". 

You can retain a semblance of the freedom to do what you suggest as an O-4 if you go part-time, but no way Active Duty allows you that discretion. Granted, outliers abound, but that and a $1.20 gets the median a cup of coffee. And if you do make it a point and be a visible shitbag on the qweep front , they'll make sure you don't have any access to a cockpit ever again. Your masters are that petty, and they're not in the business of bartering with their human property. And I digress cuz I'm repeating myself.

[FlyingWolf]

3 hours ago, BashiChuni said:

Please tell me more about your expertise on the SUPT syllabus. I’m very intrigued and impressed 

Meh, he is regurgitating what others are throwing out.

BREAK BREAK

There has been a marked improvement in leadership in all levels of my chain of command over the past couple years. I am hopeful that eventually we will be in a much better place, but the Air Force is now suffering the consequences of epically poor decision making/culture of previous commands. 

 

[matmacwc]

33 minutes ago, flyusaf83 said:

Around the senior Capt or junior Maj level, you’re down to the the shiny pennies who would rather masturbate to their OPR strats than fly.  And some guys who are awful pilots and won’t get airline jobs.  These are the few who stay in.

I know a few good eggs that are still around, most BTZ to LtCol & Col (some both, one guy 2 below to both, future AF/CC as I see it), on there way to the top and their craniums are on straight.  Possibly the exception rather than the rule though.

24 minutes ago, FlyingWolf said:

There has been a marked improvement in leadership in all levels of my chain of command over the past couple years. I am hopeful that eventually we will be in a much better place, but the Air Force is now suffering the consequences of epically poor decision making/culture of previous commands. 

I've heard this as well.

[DirtyFlightSuit]

37 minutes ago, flyusaf83 said:

I disagree with this analysis, based on my anecdotal experience.  I see saltiness creeping into the perspective of newly minted copilots in my community.  They get into the squadrons and are stunned by how little flying matters in flying squadrons.  They are disappointed in being shackled with additional duties.  I’d say half of our pilots are firmly in the GTFO pool before they finish the first 5 years of their ten year ADSC.

Of the half that do stay blue into the mid-level Captain stage..  this is when they get shackled with flight commander or shop chief level add’l duties.  They also start getting hit with non-flying 179s.  They are still 2-4 years from their UPT ADSCs, but firmly join the crowded GTFO pool. I’d say 8/10 pilots in my community are there by year 8 of their commitment.

Around the senior Capt or junior Maj level, you’re down to the the shiny pennies who would rather masturbate to their OPR strats than fly.  And some guys who are awful pilots and won’t get airline jobs.  These are the few who stay in.

 

 

To some degree this is our fault, they cant get through UPT without the IP's already talking about bailing for airlines and all their complaints.  As for how little flying matters in the squadron it's been that way for my entire career in the Air Force, and likely well before that so nothing new there, it is a major problem just not a new one.  The additional duties in my case didn't really start to occur until I was a senior Captain.  Before that I was expected to do my SELO / Scheduling / Upgrade / Masters which sucked but hey.    Also Flight commander / Shop Chief duties I don't consider additional duties, unless you mean something else by that statement.  Totally agree with non flying 179's those have to go, I was lucky and only got one right before pining Major so at least I wasn't too young for it.

[tac airlifter]

1 hour ago, flyusaf83 said:

Around the senior Capt or junior Maj level, you’re down to the the shiny pennies who would rather masturbate to their OPR strats than fly.  And some guys who are awful pilots and won’t get airline jobs.  These are the few who stay in.

You really think everyone over O-4 either sucks at flying or is a selfish careerist?  That’s an uninformed comment.

[17D_guy]

Historically has Flight Commander been viewed as an additional duty/queep job?  Figure that's the first time (senior-ish Capt) there's a little more management mixed in with the leading.