Pilot Shortage Deepens, USAF is SCREWED.

[Homestar]

I stayed. I don’t like Kool Aid. I have a family. 

Edited May 12, 2018 by Homestar

[Duck]

I stayed. I don’t like Kool Aid. I have a family. 

Ladies and gentlemen, this is what we call a unicorn...

[ThreeHoler]

I stayed. I don’t like Kool Aid. I have a family. 

Ditto. Not going to take the shitty 27.5 to 22 YAS they offered either. them.

[Dogs-N-Guns]

I stayed. I am two years late to rate, finished my 96 gate month, so flight pay is good until a month after I hit 20 years even if I don't fly again. I got released to get my PhD in applied physics right around the time they reduced the crew ratio in the C-17. Became bonus eligible 5 months after I graduated with my degree, so the 5 yr PhD ADSC is running concurrently with my bonus ADSC. I have 2.5 years left on my teaching payback tour. Then only on more assignment between me an retirement. I'm preparing for the worst, but hoping for the best. I miss flying, but as long as it's treated as an additional duty (especially for FGOs), I'm not interested in returning.

[Majestik Møøse]

3 hours ago, Merle Dixon said:

With FedEx hiring ~500 this year, Delta hiring ~1,000, American and United hiring over 600 each, SWA hiring, Alaska hiring, Jet Blue hiring...

Do any of you know any AF pilot that is staying past their SUPT ADSC?

Im a reservist embedded in an active-duty squadron at a SUPT base and I do not know a single IP that isnt quitting. Also, there used to be grey beard O-5s that would stay in SUPT world to 23, 24, 25 years of service. Not anymore. Every O-5 is on retirement terminal leave at 19 years and 10 months and in airline indoc. Via my little microcosm of active duty AF SUPT world, no one is sticking around, no one.

Yeah, there’s plenty. A lot of U-2 guys have extended their UPT ADSC by a few years to fly here. I don’t know any that wished they hadn’t, though that doesn’t mean they necessarily want to stay in the Air Force longer than one U-2 tour. Several are, however.

At the same time, I don’t know why anyone would stay in the Air Force after working at a UPT base.

[Homestar]

2 hours ago, Duck said:

Ladies and gentlemen, this is what we call a unicorn...

I had returned from my 365 a year before and was in a pretty good assignment when I decided to sign the 5 year bonus. The next year the 20 YAS bonus was offered to MAF pilots and they allowed my year group to sign the longer bonus. Since I had decided to stay to 20 anyway I decided to go ahead and add the four more years of bonus payments. 

The AF didn’t have to allow my group to take the added bonus. I was pleasantly surprised when they offered it. I’ve had a good career except for the year of my life wasted in Afghanistan. I’ve flown in every assignment. Not a school select. Made O-5. 

Of course, all my friends are flying for airlines now and I’d also like to be done with military service but I’m getting close and am most likely in my final assignment. Flying is good. I’ll have to suck up a Group or Wing staff job soon, but such is life. 

I took the path of least resistance staying in and signing the bonus. I didn’t want to start a job search and grow up quite yet. It worked for me. The AF is dumb sometimes, but usually it’s not as bad as the board makes it seem. I’ve paid my dues TDY and deployed like all of you, but my life has also gotten better as time has gone on. I understand everyone is different and has different experiences though. And that’s fine. 

Edited May 12, 2018 by Homestar

[Tommy]

I took the 9 year bonus to 20.5 years. So far the AF has treated me better than most. Seen some cool things and been stationed at some cool locations and flew the first 13 years and now in a pretty good staff gig. I guess time will tell how the next 6 years will be. Worst case or maybe best case I get passed over for O-5 and get out and go to the guard/reserves and get an airline gig. In the meantime I don’t mind making $150,000 a year plus retirement if I stay in to 20. 

[tac airlifter]

I also took the extended bonus out to 20.5 years.  I had an awesome job crushing enemies, doing well at it, my family was happy, and I thought it could continue. My last three years have been awful, I was at an irrelevant non-flying staff job & it was very disheartening professionally. I inadvertently brought my unhappiness home and my family, to my shame, was affected by my foul mood and lack of professional satisfaction. I knew I was rolling the dice by taking the bonus, but I rolled snake eyes and it was worse than anticipated.  

Not everyone who stays in the service past their commitment is a Kool-Aid drinking careerist.   However, if I could make the choice over again I would have left the service and not taken the bonus. And I will certainly leave when my commitment is up because I just can’t stay in an organization that doesn’t care about its people or its mission..... and by not caring for the people doing the mission, the Air Force has shown me they don't care about the mission. For those who leave when their commitment is up, I salute you brothers and wish you the best. For those who stay, I salute you as well and hope that you will be gainfully employed by commanders who care about you.  

 

[Magnum]

3 hours ago, Lifer said:

I took the 9 year bonus to 20.5 years. So far the AF has treated me better than most. Seen some cool things and been stationed at some cool locations and flew the first 13 years and now in a pretty good staff gig. I guess time will tell how the next 6 years will be. Worst case or maybe best case I get passed over for O-5 and get out and go to the guard/reserves and get an airline gig. In the meantime I don’t mind making $150,000 a year plus retirement if I stay in to 20. 

I'm an ANG technician.  GS-13.  $114,000 as tech plus 28,000 tech bonus, plus 24,000 DSG, plus 12,000 sitting alert.  No commitment, no 365's, no 179's.  Come home every night.  Don't sign the bonus, go Guard.

Edited May 13, 2018 by Magnum

[matmacwc]

7 hours ago, Dogs-N-Guns said:

I stayed. I am two years late to rate, finished my 96 gate month, so flight pay is good until a month after I hit 20 years even if I don't fly again. I got released to get my PhD in applied physics right around the time they reduced the crew ratio in the C-17. Became bonus eligible 5 months after I graduated with my degree, so the 5 yr PhD ADSC is running concurrently with my bonus ADSC. I have 2.5 years left on my teaching payback tour. Then only on more assignment between me an retirement. I'm preparing for the worst, but hoping for the best. I miss flying, but as long as it's treated as an additional duty (especially for FGOs), I'm not interested in returning.

I’d say you are doing it right.

[sqwatch]

I'm an ANG technician.  GS-13.  $114,000 as tech plus 28,000 tech bonus, plus 24,000 DSG, plus 12,000 sitting alert.  No commitment, no 365's, no 179's.  Come home every night.  Don't sign the bonus, go Guard.

At what unit do you sit alert and come home every night? Let’s not church it up.

[matmacwc]

1 hour ago, sqwatch said:

 

At what unit do you sit alert and come home every night? Let’s not church it up.

 

Somebody must be sitting alert......overnight.

[HossHarris]

Getting into the check-of-the-month club makes a lot of follow on decisions much much easier. 

Recommend. 

[Tonka]

19 hours ago, Merle Dixon said:

... Via my little microcosm of active duty AF SUPT world, no one is sticking around, no one.

YMMV, but I know a good amount of O-5 through O-7s that at one time claimed they were getting out... some were disingenuous, many more really weren't as decided as they presented, and some just had major changes in life.  Some are pessimistic and are concerned of another 911 and layoffs... all depends on your crystal ball.  That being said, the more examples of positive outcomes for folks to look at does not bode well for the AF.  But there will always be a regression to a mean, there will be layoffs at some point...

[ImNotARobot]

YMMV, but I know a good amount of O-5 through O-7s that at one time claimed they were getting out... some were disingenuous, many more really weren't as decided as they presented, and some just had major changes in life.  Some are pessimistic and are concerned of another 911 and layoffs... all depends on your crystal ball.  That being said, the more examples of positive outcomes for folks to look at does not bode well for the AF.  But there will always be a regression to a mean, there will be layoffs at some point...

To your point, I’ve seen AFRC guys who stayed way past 20 YOS mil due to the radiation burns from the post-9/11 furlough years. Can’t fault them a bit for keeping two jobs, not being sure how the airline side of things would eventually turn out.

I also don’t fault guys for the often hated phrase “keeping doors open”. But simple things like doing (dumb) PME can keep the promotion opportunities open for many years, particularly on the AFRC side. Having done Active Duty for over a decade, I enjoy the relatively low bar set in AFRC for progression. A pulse and PME is all that’s required for O-5. Masters and PME for O-6.

One the flip side of that, I also don’t fault an ARC baby who got hired at an airline in his/her first 10 years on mil service, starts making great money and having amazing time at home, and finds the inherent stupidity of PME insatiable, retiring as an O-4 with a smile.

Different strokes for different folks. In my AFRC unit, I fly with farmers, police officers, firefighters, teachers, dentists, airline pilots, you name it. My family’s best plan has literally nothing to do your family’s best plan. The ARC does a much better job of embracing that mentality than anything I experienced on AD (i.e. everyone should be a CSAF in training).

[Stitch]

Serious question:  On average how much would a brand new 2 Lt on flying status make per month/year? I had a young guy who really wants to fly ask me this and I figure this would be a good place to ask.

Yes, he's aware of the "challenges" of being an air force pilot (drones, non-flying jobs, queep, etc...) and the AD vs. Guard situation.   

Edited May 16, 2018 by Stitch
Spelling is hard...

[Day Man]

you can google all that (exact) info pretty easily...base O-1 pay, local BAH, flight pay

Edited May 16, 2018 by Day Man

[MooseAg03]

https://www.dfas.mil/militarymembers/payentitlements/military-pay-charts.html

[Tommy]

Stitch,

I'd have him check out the following site. For a married O-2 at Vance AFB the annual salary showed like $55K without flight pay. 

https://militarypay.defense.gov/Calculators/RMC-Calculator/

And for reference at 12 years in as a major with flight pay you make about $120K. Often at that point you're either paid to leave or offered a bonus which is currently around $25K to $35K a year to stay in which can vary from around 5 to 9 years depending the Air Force's needs. 

Edited May 16, 2018 by Lifer

[tac airlifter]

Stitch,  sounds like the young man in question should dump the current wife and find a more attractive one that supports his dreams of living dangerously.  Alternatively, keep current wife and allow her to maintain the fiction that he makes only 650$ a month.  It’s all technique.  Good luck!

Edited May 16, 2018 by tac airlifter
COA 2 added.

[HossHarris]

1 minute ago, joe1234 said:

True, but having a low seniority number at a legacy airline makes life much easier too. Every time I see a guy break down the math of staying vs. going, they always come out much farther ahead by getting out ASAP.

Like investing, you go with the risk you can tolerate.

 

Your retirement check will never be furloughed, fired, lose it’s medical, or merged with another company.....

[matmacwc]

31 minutes ago, HossHarris said:

Your retirement check will never be furloughed, fired, lose it’s medical, or merged with another company.....

Just reduced by the amount your VA payment is, for most people.

 

Most of you didn't know that one did ya.

Edited May 16, 2018 by matmacwc

[HU&W]

1 hour ago, tac airlifter said:

Stitch,  sounds like the young man in question should dump the current wife and find a more attractive one that supports his dreams of living dangerously.  Alternatively, keep current wife and allow her to maintain the fiction that he makes only 650$ a month.  It’s all technique.  Good luck!

That's what allotments are for, right?

[HossHarris]

1 hour ago, matmacwc said:

Just reduced by the amount your VA payment is, for most people.

 

Most of you didn't know that one did ya.

Taxes. 

At 50% or more you get both. 

[matmacwc]

56 minutes ago, HossHarris said:

Taxes. 

At 50% or more you get both. 

With 20 years.