End of the road - seeking advice

[GDAL]

Little background about me...I was an off the street hire last year for a Herc unit (guard).

I attended my FCI last week and was unfortunately disqualified for defective stereopsis with no waiver recommendation. I have plenty of flying experience, but it doesn't seem as though my depth perception is good enough for manned AF aircraft. I was told by the flight surgeon that I was eligible only for RPAs at this point, but that I would need to find another unit to hire me. Any other strings I might be able to pull before I am forced to give up on my dream of flying Hercs? Any thoughts as to switching over to the RPA track for a guy who had his sights set on manned aircraft?

My enlistment contract states that I enlisted as an E-3 solely for the purpose of commissioning as a pilot with my squadron. I've been gained at my unit, attending drill, getting paid, got my ID, submitted my SF-86 for SSBI, etc, etc, but now I'm guessing I can just get my DD-214 if I so chose. But what type of discharge would that be? Medical? General? OTH? What happens to my security clearance?

Any words of wisdom or encouragement would be deeply appreciated. Thank you all.

[RTB]

Sorry to hear that. I’d try for a waiver anyway.  See if your guard unit flight doc is willing to pursue it. Pretty sure you’ll need a flight doc to make the waiver recommendation so find one who will help. 

[jspace17]

36 minutes ago, RTB said:

Sorry to hear that. I’d try for a waiver anyway.  See if your guard unit flight doc is willing to pursue it. Pretty sure you’ll need a flight doc to make the waiver recommendation so find one who will help. 

This. I've heard of alternate depth perception tests that if you're able to pass, may constitute waiver-ability. Not sure if it'd help much, but maybe you could take a depth perception test at a civilian doctor and take the results to the flight doc to try to help your case. If you're borderline, I'm sure they'll let you try a different test. That donut test is damn hard and not even the best test for depth perception so do some shopping around if you get my drift.

Sorry to hear about this situation, sounds like you're stuck between a rock and a hard place. Keep looking around and I hope you're able to get a waiver. Good luck

[GDAL]

42 minutes ago, jspace17 said:

This. I've heard of alternate depth perception tests that if you're able to pass, may constitute waiver-ability. Not sure if it'd help much, but maybe you could take a depth perception test at a civilian doctor and take the results to the flight doc to try to help your case. If you're borderline, I'm sure they'll let you try a different test. That donut test is damn hard and not even the best test for depth perception so do some shopping around if you get my drift.

Sorry to hear about this situation, sounds like you're stuck between a rock and a hard place. Keep looking around and I hope you're able to get a waiver. Good luck

Thanks for the kind words.

I was given alternate depth perception tests at WP and apparently didn't do very well on those either. The Howard Dolman DP apparatus seemed even harder than the donut one. But the folks at WP worked with me for two days, made me custom glasses, the whole 9 yards. That's why I am thinking my situation may be pretty hopeless at this point.

I have been to two civilian Dr, both of which stated my DP was down to about 30 seconds of arc. Not sure if nerves really got the best of me at WP, or maybe it was all the blood they took.

I am determined to exhaust every possible option. It seems like it might be something I could work on...At MEPS I was able to get to D on the OVT machine but not past it. At WP I was only able to get partway through B. 

Edited February 28, 2018 by GDAL

[RTB]

4 hours ago, GDAL said:

Thanks for the kind words.

I was given alternate depth perception tests at WP and apparently didn't do very well on those either. The Howard Dolman DP apparatus seemed even harder than the donut one. But the folks at WP worked with me for two days, made me custom glasses, the whole 9 yards. That's why I am thinking my situation may be pretty hopeless at this point.

I have been to two civilian Dr, both of which stated my DP was down to about 30 seconds of arc. Not sure if nerves really got the best of me at WP, or maybe it was all the blood they took.

I am determined to exhaust every possible option. It seems like it might be something I could work on...At MEPS I was able to get to D on the OVT machine but not past it. At WP I was only able to get partway through B. 

The depth perception tests suck. Does your unit have a medical element?  Can your unit flight doc give you a depth perception test?  If an AF flight surgeon can state that you passed an AF depth perception test, that should help your case with the WP DQ.

[GDAL]

18 minutes ago, RTB said:

The depth perception tests suck. Does your unit have a medical element?  Can your unit flight doc give you a depth perception test?  If an AF flight surgeon can state that you passed an AF depth perception test, that should help your case with the WP DQ.

We do, and luckily RSD is this weekend. I will plan to see him first thing. Thank you kindly for the advice.

[pilot]

Good luck dude. That chick going thru with us said she had a depth perception trainer app on her computer that she used. Have you tried one of those? I can’t vouch for it and frankly have no idea what it is or how it works, but she said it worked well for her when we were discussing your bad news. Regardless, hope it works out. RPAs are cool too...get to kill a lot of dudes and go home every night. Prob not as fun as flying, but an important mission nonetheless. I think I mentioned to you I had some army bro’s who flew in the army but couldn’t pass color or depth perception at WP for their FC1. Maybe navy/army/coast guard could work out if ANG doesn’t?

[GDAL]

5 minutes ago, FlyArmy said:

Good luck dude. That chick going thru with us said she had a depth perception trainer app on her computer that she used. Have you tried one of those? I can’t vouch for it and frankly have no idea what it is or how it works, but she said it worked well for her when we were discussing your bad news. Regardless, hope it works out. RPAs are cool too...get to kill a lot of dudes and go home every night. Prob not as fun as flying, but an important mission nonetheless. I think I mentioned to you I had some army bro’s who flew in the army but couldn’t pass color or depth perception at WP for their FC1. Maybe navy/army/coast guard could work out if ANG doesn’t?

I was under the impression that Navy/Army/CG were more stringent. I wouldn't be opposed to checking out any of the other branches. As a last resort, I would take RPAs before giving up the privilege to commission, but I don't wanna give up on manned AC so easily.

The only thing I tried was the Magic Eye books. Supposedly the best thing for stereopsis. I have no issue at all seeing the 3D images, so I don't know what gives!

Glad to hear your week went well, I hope to see you around.

Edited March 1, 2018 by GDAL

[IMUA]

@GDAL i have a DP waiver. Let me dig it up. DM so we can compare notes once i pull it down.

Edited March 1, 2018 by IMUA

[mb1685]

2 hours ago, GDAL said:

The only thing I tried was the Magic Eye books. Supposedly the best thing for stereopsis. I have no issue at all seeing the 3D images, so I don't know what gives!

How quickly are you able to see the images? Are you able to consistently get every single one in 1-2 seconds or do you have to stare and adjust your focal point for a while to get them to pop out?

If you can't consistently do them almost instantly, keep practicing. I could never do those as a kid, and the first time I went to MEPS, I couldn't even make it through section A even though I knew there was no way my depth perception could be that horrible. I bought 3 Magic Eye books, downloaded a stereopsis iPhone app, and also looked at every website I could find with stereopsis images. I mainly practiced with such a large sample size to try to reduce the chances of instinctively knowing what focal depth to focus at by becoming super familiar with each image. It took a lot of practice since I couldn't see them at all at first, but I got good enough at the technique to be able to see any image (even new ones) within 2 seconds max. I've taken the test once more at MEPS and again for my flight physical and both times I was able to get through every single row with no problems.

So unless you're already absolutely crushing it at the Magic Eye stuff, I'd recommend continuing to practice as much as you can possibly stand and then seeing if you can get them to let you give it another shot.

Also, here's another thing that might be worth a try. When I went to an AME for an FAA Class 1 physical, I noticed that the visual acuity test looked like it was on the same kind of machine and I asked if I could practice the depth perception test (even though it's not required for an FAA physical). The AME was happy to let me give it a shot and I think having a no pressure practice run helped a lot to ease my nerves the next two times that I did it for real. So it might be worth getting in touch with some AMEs in your area and asking if they have the machine. If you're worried they'll think you're a douche for wasting their time, you could always offer to pay them for an FAA physical even though you don't need it.

Edited March 1, 2018 by mb1685

[ThreeHoler]

There is no time limit I am aware of for the depth perception test. Also, it is never far left or far right...so now you’re down to a 1 in 3 instead of 1 in 5.

Relax. Take your time.

[GDAL]

10 hours ago, mb1685 said:

How quickly are you able to see the images? Are you able to consistently get every single one in 1-2 seconds or do you have to stare and adjust your focal point for a while to get them to pop out?

If you can't consistently do them almost instantly, keep practicing. I could never do those as a kid, and the first time I went to MEPS, I couldn't even make it through section A even though I knew there was no way my depth perception could be that horrible. I bought 3 Magic Eye books, downloaded a stereopsis iPhone app, and also looked at every website I could find with stereopsis images. I mainly practiced with such a large sample size to try to reduce the chances of instinctively knowing what focal depth to focus at by becoming super familiar with each image. It took a lot of practice since I couldn't see them at all at first, but I got good enough at the technique to be able to see any image (even new ones) within 2 seconds max. I've taken the test once more at MEPS and again for my flight physical and both times I was able to get through every single row with no problems.

So unless you're already absolutely crushing it at the Magic Eye stuff, I'd recommend continuing to practice as much as you can possibly stand and then seeing if you can get them to let you give it another shot.

Also, here's another thing that might be worth a try. When I went to an AME for an FAA Class 1 physical, I noticed that the visual acuity test looked like it was on the same kind of machine and I asked if I could practice the depth perception test (even though it's not required for an FAA physical). The AME was happy to let me give it a shot and I think having a no pressure practice run helped a lot to ease my nerves the next two times that I did it for real. So it might be worth getting in touch with some AMEs in your area and asking if they have the machine. If you're worried they'll think you're a douche for wasting their time, you could always offer to pay them for an FAA physical even though you don't need it.

Not that quickly. Maybe 10-12 seconds for some. I was in the same boat as you (failed the MEPS test at line C) last year. Bought Magic Eye books and utilized them every day for a month prior to my FCI. Then I got to the physical and actually did worse on the exam than I did at MEPS. So clearly I wasn't practicing enough. But what you're telling me is very hopeful.

I was also told about an online vision performance program that supposedly helped a boom operator, so I'm gonna give that a go as well. I'm just going to keep being proactive and do what I can to get another shot. I'll see what my unit has to say this weekend.

Also, with respect to visiting an AME, that is an excellent idea. I didn't realize they utilized those machines, I've always just had to stare at letters on the wall the old fashioned way. I'll call around and see if anyone's got one.

Thank you so much for the suggestions, and thank you everyone for the words of encouragement.

[PilotPitts]

Not that quickly. Maybe 10-12 seconds for some. I was in the same boat as you (failed the MEPS test at line C) last year. Bought Magic Eye books and utilized them every day for a month prior to my FCI. Then I got to the physical and actually did worse on the exam than I did at MEPS. So clearly I wasn't practicing enough. But what you're telling me is very hopeful.
I was also told about an online vision performance program that supposedly helped a boom operator, so I'm gonna give that a go as well. I'm just going to keep being proactive and do what I can to get another shot. I'll see what my unit has to say this weekend.
Also, with respect to visiting an AME, that is an excellent idea. I didn't realize they utilized those machines, I've always just had to stare at letters on the wall the old fashioned way. I'll call around and see if anyone's got one.
Thank you so much for the suggestions, and thank you everyone for the words of encouragement.

You can buy a pretty solid Depth Perception test from good-lite. Same one used for the Navy flight physical. I bought it prior to doing a flight physical a few years ago. Practiced a bunch and Max’d the test.

https://www.good-lite.com/Details.cfm?ProdID=1230&category=19&Secondary=0

[JudyJudy]

14 hours ago, ThreeHoler said:

There is no time limit I am aware of for the depth perception test. Also, it is never far left or far right...so now you’re down to a 1 in 3 instead of 1 in 5.

Relax. Take your time.

Long story but I have taken the test multiple times. They will never be in the same position in back to back lines, until you get to section F I think. I.e. the test is never 2-2-3, they break it up to be 2-3-2 or something similar. Does that make sense GDAL? So once you get the first one right, the odds increase to 50/50 on guessing on the next line. Also look through the circles and wiggle your toes, the doc told me that and I started to see the donuts pop out, it helped me. 

[GDAL]

7 minutes ago, JudyJudy said:

Long story but I have taken the test multiple times. They will never be in the same position in back to back lines, until you get to section F I think. I.e. the test is never 2-2-3, they break it up to be 2-3-2 or something similar. Does that make sense GDAL? So once you get the first one right, the odds increase to 50/50 on guessing on the next line. Also look through the circles and wiggle your toes, the doc told me that and I started to see the donuts pop out, it helped me. 

I hadn't heard that, I only knew that it cannot possibly be 1 or 5. I will keep that in mind. I love all the different advice and techniques there are out there! I wish I had my own machine on which to practice.

[pilot]

1 hour ago, JudyJudy said:

Long story but I have taken the test multiple times. They will never be in the same position in back to back lines, until you get to section F I think. I.e. the test is never 2-2-3, they break it up to be 2-3-2 or something similar. Does that make sense GDAL? So once you get the first one right, the odds increase to 50/50 on guessing on the next line. Also look through the circles and wiggle your toes, the doc told me that and I started to see the donuts pop out, it helped me. 

 

I recently did MEPS and FC1 and can vouch that the first and the last are never it, but I do recall having 2 in a row more than once, 3-3-2 (or 3-3-4?) specifically. 

[PilotPitts]

I hadn't heard that, I only knew that it cannot possibly be 1 or 5. I will keep that in mind. I love all the different advice and techniques there are out there! I wish I had my own machine on which to practice.

Your own machine on which to practice you say.....

https://rover.ebay.com/rover/0/0/0?mpre=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.ebay.com%2Fulk%2Fitm%2F141518267535

[GDAL]

45 minutes ago, PilotPitts said:

Your own machine on which to practice you say.....

https://rover.ebay.com/rover/0/0/0?mpre=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.ebay.com%2Fulk%2Fitm%2F141518267535

Nice find. Seems absurd to think about getting one...but $400 is a small price to pay to keep a pilot slot!

[pilot]

4 minutes ago, GDAL said:

Nice find. Seems absurd to think about getting one...but $400 is a small price to pay to keep a pilot slot!

I spent a lot more than that on hotels and booze rushing. Plus you can resell it for $400 when you’re done and it will have been free. Hell put an ad up on a cork/white board in W100 next time you go to WP. 

[GDAL]

21 minutes ago, FlyArmy said:

I spent a lot more than that on hotels and booze rushing. Plus you can resell it for $400 when you’re done and it will have been free. Hell put an ad up on a cork/white board in W100 next time you go to WP. 

I hit the dude up to see what slides come with the machine. 

[mrgrey]

Did you go to an outside optmtrist, make sure you didn’t have a minor astigmatism?

[GDAL]

9 hours ago, mrgrey said:

Did you go to an outside optmtrist, make sure you didn’t have a minor astigmatism?

I did, and I do. But that doesn't matter. The test is performed with best correction (20/20 in both eyes).