Military appreciation has jumped the shark

[pawnman]

1 hour ago, BashiChuni said:

I’m pointing out how these perks further the understanding gap between military and civilian. 

And how “appreciating the troops” is very superficial and makes Americans feel good about sticking their heads in the sand as they send their military all over the world. 

And if you have a meritorious service medal it’s lame you put it on your license plate to avoid $80 registration fee. 

Noted. I'll lump that in with your opinion on reenlistment ceremonies.

[BashiChuni]

Ouch that hurts bro. Lol

[HeloDude]

15 hours ago, Majestik Møøse said:

...I’m ok with this, yeah. Allowing Lowe’s to sell you something for $50 less is much different than cutting in front of weary travelers.

So Lowes wanting to sell you something 10% cheaper than a non-military person is ok, but an airline wanting to allow you to board 10 minutes earlier (to sit in your same seat) is not ok? 

[BashiChuni]

You guys are missing the point. 

We’re rapidly becoming a military class system separated from our fellow civilian countrymen. 

Not only that but becoming extremely entitled with all our “benefits”. 

Common question I get asked when I tel military people I’m planning to get out is “oh I wonder what your disability rating will be!”

YGBSM I’m a healthy dude I don’t need any disability. 

“Oh but you should get checked out just in case you can get some money from the VA!”

thats the type of entitled thinking that’s seeping into our military culture. Entitlement. It’s not good. 

Edited May 13, 2018 by BashiChuni

[Flaco]

2 hours ago, BashiChuni said:

You guys are missing the point. 

We’re rapidly becoming a military class system separated from our fellow civilian countrymen. 

Not only that but becoming extremely entitled with all our “benefits”. 

Common question I get asked when I tel military people I’m planning to get out is “oh I wonder what your disability rating will be!”

YGBSM I’m a healthy dude I don’t need any disability. 

“Oh but you should get checked out just in case you can get some money from the VA!”

thats the type of entitled thinking that’s seeping into our military culture. Entitlement. It’s not good. 

Spot on. I had a candidate for political office knock on my front door the other day and ask my what my concerns were.

When I told him that the US public and elected officials had lost accountability of its military and almost entirely ceded control to the President (and largely, the generals) he looked at me like I had just stepped off a UFO.

It was as if he wanted to say "How dare you question what our military is doing? Every man and woman who wears the uniform is a hero, and every mission he does is just and right and holy and in keeping with the best traditions this country has to offer!"

Then I asked him, politely, if he could tell me some of the countries in which we had troops that were actively involved in armed conflicts. He mentioned Afghanistan, struggled to find any additional countries he could name, and began stuttering. In his mind I could see the Ma, Apple Pie, and American Flag T-Shirts give way to an overwhelming sense of embarrassment that he, a candidate for public office, had no clue what our military was doing.

The fake hero worship that we have all encountered is the US public's apology for the abdication of their civic duties and not actually giving a shit what their military is up to.

The pilot shortage and likely coming shortage of the other branches will probably fix this long term - people will stop volunteering for the military and/or get out when they realize there's no coherent strategy in the conflicts we are engaged in, but the disconnect is a major problem.

Just ask the Romans....

https://smallwarsjournal.com/jrnl/art/the-price-of-professionalization

Edited May 13, 2018 by Flaco

[mudhen69]

Take what you need, not what you can. Try it as a life philosophy. It's not a popular one with the "me-first" crowd.

The only time I board early is if I was put in a situation due to my service that I would not be otherwise. Like if I need the extra bin space because I have to hand carry a bunch of pro-gear or have a big computer bag because I am carrying my personal, VPN and JMPS computers. Or if the orders process/CTO put me in a position were I am in zone 10 or the C group with SWA.

The license plate thing reminds me of the falling out I had with family members who used grandmas handicapped mirror tag when grandma wasn't with them. "But I am running errands for them" they said...Again, take what you need, not what you can. If your budget is so tight that your 6 figure salary can't afford $80 per year, go ahead and get your NDSM license plate.

Another thing that irks me is when I am out with a group from work and someone asks the server for the military discount. It's usually after they have brought the bill and wastes 5-10 minutes of everyone's time just to save a few bucks. I usually politely decline which flabbergasts those who think 10% off is an entitlement. PS: Those dudes are usually lousy tippers. 

And Lowes...gents, Lowes is for housewives and people who don't know what they are doing. Find a local contractor, become friends, figure out where he shops for supplies and go there. It's usually better stuff, and beats the Lowes 10% off. 

Lastly, don't get me started on spouses and discounts....

 

 

Edited May 13, 2018 by mudhen69

[Lord Ratner]

 

 

 

If your budget is so tight that your 6 figure salary can't afford $80 per year, go ahead and get your NDSM license plate.

 

It sounds like you're looking for virtuous opportunities where none exist. This isn't a loophole. The state government of Texas has decided that people who have the aforementioned medals do not pay various state taxes and fees.

 

Do you ask the cashier at the grocery store to charge you sales tax on produce? Do you stay out of the carpool lane with three passengers because you have enough time to just sit in traffic? Do you calculate your income taxes using only the top bracket because you make enough and can afford it?

 

There's a huge difference between using a benefit as intended (free registration for military medal recipients) and taking advantage of a program that was not designed with our unique circumstances in mind (getting food stamps because your entire income was tax-free from combat zones). If you're feeling generous, take the money you save on license fees and donate it to a good charity. The money will be used far more efficiently to benefit people on a local level.

 

[17D_guy]

And here I've never gotten the medal plates in Tx because I didn't want to do the extra paperwork... 3 years running...

[Lord Ratner]

And here I've never gotten the medal plates in Tx because I didn't want to do the extra paperwork... 3 years running...

At least that's a logical reason!

[ChkHandleDn]

On 5/11/2018 at 9:50 PM, Homestar said:

Exactly. I wish airlines would charge for overhead bins and make a checked bag free. Some of these carry ons are insane. 

And these are the same asshats that take their big ass bags when evacuating aircraft. 

[jazzdude]

TLDR: Who cares? So long as they aren't harassing a company to give them a discount.

I'm sure no one here got the Amex platinum or other premium credit card, then got the fee waived for their active duty service. Or used the admirals lounge while flying on American on orders. Or used an USO lounge at the airport. Or put your frequent flyer or hotel points number while traveling in official business. How about taking advantage of reduced or free hunting/fishing/parks permits? How about booking a hotel at the gov rate when not on orders?

What this attitude boils down to is: "Service itself should be its own reward." Where have I heard that before? Hmm...

I remember my dad telling me about the days when he'd go out in the field (army), and BAS was reduced since meals/MREs were provided. Imagine if every day in the Deid that you'd pay a portion of your BAS for chow hall food. Outraged? Get over your sense of entitlement, BAS is so you can eat, and you had government meals provided.

Dumb 2LT wearing a flightsuit while traveling commercially? Teaching moment. Airman wearing ripped jeans and looking like a slob? Maybe there's a reason some units have their jr enlisted travel in uniform.

My point is, if a business is offering a perk, who are we to judge other people that take advantage of that perk? (Obviously there's a limit...you can't sign the AF up to lease tankers in return for a job with the contractor)

I'm pleasantly surprised if a business has a military discount, but I'm by no means upset if they don't. Tip the waitstaff based on full price before the discount, and maybe a bit extra, especially if they give me a discount unsolicited. I'm just a guy doing my job, and sometimes that job involves going some pretty cool things that most can only dream of doing. It's their way of saying thank you. I'd rather they said thank you by supporting and voting for politicians that use military force judiciously, and holds the services and president accountable for use of the military.

[jazzdude]

Especially after finding out the DOD was paying millions for “patriotic displays.”

Eh, I used to be upset about this, but really what they did was buy advertising. Just like buying a tv commercial, maybe better (never once heard "launch avoidance maneuver" at a pro sports event). All part of recruiting.

Airshows and flyovers aren't cheap either, and kind of in the same vein. No one seemed to get outraged at military flyovers at events either, because, hey, they're free, just minus the cost to operate that multi-million dollar jet(s) turning dinosaurs into noise as a patriotic act, while coming out of the training fence. I'm sure the pilots/crew were consummate professionals, and never accepted sideline seats at the event they did the flyover for after landing.

How about the blue angels or the thunderbirds? Pure recruiting and advertisement for the services.

[jazzdude]

The airlines brought this on all of us when they made air travel a Hobbesian state of nature—a war of every man against every man—by nickel and diming us over luggage rather than a pleasant experience one looks forward to.

Nah, the public brought this on itself, fueled by sites like expedia and kayak. Most will buy the cheapest ticket, and one way to get the cheapest ticket is to charge for the extras (checked bag, overhead space, food, drinks, etc). You pay for it, one way or the other.

[Clark Griswold]

7 hours ago, Flaco said:

Spot on. I had a candidate for political office knock on my front door the other day and ask my what my concerns were.

When I told him that the US public and elected officials had lost accountability of its military and almost entirely ceded control to the President (and largely, the generals) he looked at me like I had just stepped off a UFO.

It was as if he wanted to say "How dare you question what our military is doing? Every man and woman who wears the uniform is a hero, and every mission he does is just and right and holy and in keeping with the best traditions this country has to offer!"

Then I asked him, politely, if he could tell me some of the countries in which we had troops that were actively involved in armed conflicts. He mentioned Afghanistan, struggled to find any additional countries he could name, and began stuttering. In his mind I could see the Ma, Apple Pie, and American Flag T-Shirts give way to an overwhelming sense of embarrassment that he, a candidate for public office, had no clue what our military was doing.

The fake hero worship that we have all encountered is the US public's apology for the abdication of their civic duties and not actually giving a shit what their military is up to.

The pilot shortage and likely coming shortage of the other branches will probably fix this long term - people will stop volunteering for the military and/or get out when they realize there's no coherent strategy in the conflicts we are engaged in, but the disconnect is a major problem.

Just ask the Romans....

https://smallwarsjournal.com/jrnl/art/the-price-of-professionalization

Well said and the article you linked should be mandatory reading and discussion for Congress

Referencing @BashiChuni point, it has gotten out of control.  

If one of the current crop of retired GOs not tainted by scandal / having left under a cloud or perhaps Mattis could articulate a well crafted call to a reserved humbleness for the Joint Team and vets while asking the public to direct their energies to helping the most needy vets / members vice those of us just going about our daily business, the legitimate goodwill could be more positively directed.

I like discounts just as much as the next vet but if I would like it more if a business said show a military ID and we'll donate a dollar to a military themed charity. 

[HU&W]

When I was a young Airman, making $1k/mo, those discounts mattered a lot.  I happily took them, along with food stamps and WIC, so my family could eat.  Today, with a much healthier budget, I still like to say thank you by supporting the businesses that offer them.  At restaurants, specifically, I tip back the entirety of the discount to the waitstaff on top of normal tip.   Personal choice. In terms of plates, most Texans don't park in the Randolph parking lot.  They do, however, see a random MSM plate in their town and feel a swell of pride and patriotism.  I know, because I was once that young kid in a non-military heavy Texas town.  Yes, the free registration is nice, but it also plays a small part in preserving Texas culture.

Edited May 14, 2018 by HU&W

[Hopefulflyer389]

1 hour ago, HU&W said:

When I was a young Airman, making $1k/mo, those discounts mattered a lot.  I happily took them, along with food stamps and WIC, so my family could eat.  Today, with a much healthier budget, I still like to say thank you by supporting the businesses that offer them.  At restaurants, specifically, I tip back the entirety of the discount to the waitstaff on top of normal tip.   Personal choice. In terms of plates, most Texans don't park in the Randolph parking lot.  They do, however, see a random MSM plate in their town and feel a swell of pride and patriotism.  I know, because I was once that young kid in a non-military heavy Texas town.  Yes, the free registration is nice, but it also plays a small part in preserving Texas culture.

 

[Majestik Møøse]

22 hours ago, HeloDude said:

So Lowes wanting to sell you something 10% cheaper than a non-military person is ok, but an airline wanting to allow you to board 10 minutes earlier (to sit in your same seat) is not ok? 

I see a difference between discounts that don’t affect anyone but the seller (Lowe’s, Epic Pass) and ones that allow me to gain an advantage over regular Joes (overhead bins and seat choice). 

[Duck]

I see a difference between discounts that don’t affect anyone but the seller (Lowe’s, Epic Pass) and ones that allow me to gain an advantage over regular Joes (overhead bins and seat choice). 

This is how I differentiate between what I accept and what I don’t choose to participate in. I’ve never preboarded, and when I go out to eat I make sure I tip the majority of the discount back to the wait staff on top of the 20% pre-discounted amount.

[jazzdude]

I see a difference between discounts that don’t affect anyone but the seller (Lowe’s, Epic Pass) and ones that allow me to gain an advantage over regular Joes (overhead bins and seat choice). 

Regular Joe can buy priority boarding if they want it. Or get priority boarding through credit card or frequent flyer programs. The airline chooses to give you, as AD military, an item that is accessible to any one willing to pay for it. So it's the same as taking a any other discount.

[BashiChuni]

4 minutes ago, jazzdude said:

2 hours ago, Majestik Møøse said:

I see a difference between discounts that don’t affect anyone but the seller (Lowe’s, Epic Pass) and ones that allow me to gain an advantage over regular Joes (overhead bins and seat choice). 

Regular Joe can buy priority boarding if they want it. Or get priority boarding through credit card or frequent flyer programs. The airline chooses to give you, as AD military, an item that is accessible to any one willing to pay for it. So it's the same as taking a any other discount.

False. Military ID gets you in front of first class. Average joe can’t top that. 

And really think about it why should joe blow military dude flying to Vegas to party board first just cause he’s in the military? Seems absurd to me. 

It’s a nice gesture that’s gone to the extreme and now it’s just tacky. 

Edited May 14, 2018 by BashiChuni

[Homestar]

49 minutes ago, BashiChuni said:

False. Military ID gets you in front of first class.

Depends on the Airline, no?

[BashiChuni]

39 minutes ago, Homestar said:

Depends on the Airline, no?

I’m sure it does. To clarify this is Delta. 

[Sneedro]

8 hours ago, HU&W said:

Today, with a much healthier budget, I still like to say thank you by supporting the businesses that offer them.  At restaurants, specifically, I tip back the entirety of the discount to the waitstaff on top of normal tip.   

I do the exact same thing.  First, I appreciate the business for the discount but A) I am not going to "punish" the server by tipping less because I saved some money and B) I went there to eat expecting to pay the full amount.  Assuming the server isn't a complete dirt bag, my gain instantly becomes the server's gain.  After all I am guessing they aren't making a ton of money and that extra 10% probably means more to them then it does me.

[Sneedro]

2 hours ago, BashiChuni said:

False. Military ID gets you in front of first class. Average joe can’t top that. 

And really think about it why should joe blow military dude flying to Vegas to party board first just cause he’s in the military? Seems absurd to me. 

It’s a nice gesture that’s gone to the extreme and now it’s just tacky. 

I get and completely understand your overall point.  The one thing I am having trouble caring too much about is a military member boarding ahead of first class passengers...  At Delta, the gate agent is going to have First Class 6ft behind those military individuals anyways (basically boarding at the same time), and they won't be allowed to use the First Class bins either so to me it doesn't much matter.  First Class will still have their wider seats, extra legroom, and drink served as soon as they sit down.  Honestly the only First Class pax that would even care they had to board second are the ones who are going to feel overly special they are sitting where they are.  The typical frequent flyer/business pax isn't going to bat an eye.  

Overall I understand your point though, and do agree with it.  Yes it is ridiculous that some abuse the gesture...if you are traveling for work go for it if it's really that important to be the first to board, otherwise wait your turn. 

[HossHarris]

On 5/13/2018 at 11:43 AM, BashiChuni said:

You guys are missing the point. 

We’re rapidly becoming a military class system separated from our fellow civilian countrymen. 

Not only that but becoming extremely entitled with all our “benefits”. 

Common question I get asked when I tel military people I’m planning to get out is “oh I wonder what your disability rating will be!”

YGBSM I’m a healthy dude I don’t need any disability. 

“Oh but you should get checked out just in case you can get some money from the VA!”

thats the type of entitled thinking that’s seeping into our military culture. Entitlement. It’s not good. 

Sidebar ....

getting the va rating stuff (if any) figured out as soon as you separate is paramount. It’s not about the money (and you can decline it if it suits your moral high ground).

It’s about getting service connection and a “chain of evidence” established while its fresh....so that 40 years from now when you need a kidney transplant because the chem trails cocktail of the month turned out to be carcinogenic you aren’t thoroughly screwed. 

Dont scoff the va stuff. It’s worth the effort early. 

And glad to hear you’ve got everything all figured out .... 

Edited May 14, 2018 by HossHarris