Swizzle Posted June 13, 2018 Posted June 13, 2018 12 hours ago, Fuzz said: Let’s be realistic about who the MAF is sending back to UPT. Our manning and experience is becoming as critical as the CAF, we can’t afford good pilots leaving the communities outside of special programs. Besides a few volunteers for family reasons, those we send back are typically not our strongest swimmers, and some are barely above drowning at any given second. Expect stated USAF priorities to change in regards to Instructing in the coming months. We'll see how this new prioritization, apparently in second-order-effect-style in coordination with and in the vien of logic IRT growth-the-force, sticks and is adhered to by the porches...perhaps the recipe of personnel sausage-making will change!?
Danger41 Posted June 13, 2018 Posted June 13, 2018 3 hours ago, LookieRookie said: Sheppard sends its FAIPs to IFF before PIT now because they are both in house. Interesting. Does IFF still do the 3 track thing depending on your follow-on? I.E. I did the Air to Air track and the A-10 guys did far fewer rides in ACM and BFM but did SAT and something else. If so, which track are they sending FAIPs through?
Clark Griswold Posted June 13, 2018 Posted June 13, 2018 13 hours ago, Fuzz said: Let’s be realistic about who the MAF is sending back to UPT. Our manning and experience is becoming as critical as the CAF, we can’t afford good pilots leaving the communities outside of special programs. Besides a few volunteers for family reasons, those we send back are typically not our strongest swimmers, and some are barely above drowning at any given second. Not on AD so had not heard that, sad. All the more reason to reach back to our past and continue to develop well rounded aviators in tried and true ways, particularly those that spend a lot of time on autopilot, yours truly included. ACE was before my time but a good idea as relayed by the Lt Cols to me when a new Lt... continue developing airmanship and heaven forbid morale... Keep it real, no ejection seats and a prop but a Diamond DART 450 would be affordable and supportable... https://www.flyingmag.com/diamond-aircraft-dart-450-prototype-takes-first-flight
Hacker Posted June 13, 2018 Posted June 13, 2018 5 hours ago, LookieRookie said: Devil's advocate view: IFF squadrons a lot of times say UPs suck no matter what. Because they do. Point?
YoungnDumb Posted June 13, 2018 Posted June 13, 2018 I mean isn't the point of any course to not suck by the end of it so to speak? Or at least suck less, so to speak. Anyways, getting this back on topic. I don't think there is much disagreement about T-1 bro's being able to fly a T-38. I do agree with the statements concerning knowledge and exposure to actually being wingmen being important. The only way you're going to get that is by sending fighter dudes back to UPT, good luck with that.
LookieRookie Posted June 13, 2018 Posted June 13, 2018 (edited) 8 hours ago, Hacker said: Because they do. Point? That there won't be be a huge quality delta in t-38 grads that were taught with either a MAF or CAF instructor. Edit: in case it wasn't clear, I was saying IFF always complains about the product anyways. Edited June 13, 2018 by LookieRookie
LookieRookie Posted June 13, 2018 Posted June 13, 2018 3 hours ago, YoungnDumb said: Interesting, wonder what happens when they head to bombers following their FAIP tour? No idea, it's a recent phenomenon. There's also the idea if b-course opens up a senior FAIP can just drop that airframe then and jump into the opening. SPS leadership just looking to take care of their FAIPs, no harm in that.
Standby Posted June 13, 2018 Posted June 13, 2018 Who gives a shit what you flew before? T-38 tac form has probably been the same for two decades. It doesn’t take an 11F to teach what LAB, 4-6k and stack level looks like. I think some 11F representation in the SUPT T-38 squadron is valuable, but why not drop those guys into IFF instructor seats or B course billets? 2
NKAWTG Posted June 13, 2018 Posted June 13, 2018 15 hours ago, Fuzz said: Let’s be realistic about who the MAF is sending back to UPT. Our manning and experience is becoming as critical as the CAF, we can’t afford good pilots leaving the communities outside of special programs. Besides a few volunteers for family reasons, those we send back are typically not our strongest swimmers, and some are barely above drowning at any given second. Not just the weak swimmers heading there. If you were a T-38 MAF guy, you were heading back to UPT with few exceptions. Couple that with the MAF taking most of the T-6 slots, and you have a huge experience gap developing in the MAF. It's not just our commanders who are low time and lack credibility, but the middle of the career junior Majors are rarely IPs now, since they got picked off for a UPT or drone second assignment. These children of the sequester are now the front line instructors of the shortened UPT product. May you fly in interesting times.
IDALPHA Posted June 13, 2018 Posted June 13, 2018 All those -38 trained guys that were sent to bvllshit assignments back in 2008-2011 are probably the last captive(literally) audience that you could snag to teach -38 UPT. Wonder if IFF for those dudes would breed the right mentality.
BashiChuni Posted June 13, 2018 Posted June 13, 2018 (edited) None of this matters. As stated in earlier thread by Danger Raptor-5000 is self aware and will self correct for shitty UPT product. Edited June 13, 2018 by BashiChuni 1 2
YoungnDumb Posted June 13, 2018 Posted June 13, 2018 8 hours ago, LookieRookie said: No idea, it's a recent phenomenon. There's also the idea if b-course opens up a senior FAIP can just drop that airframe then and jump into the opening. SPS leadership just looking to take care of their FAIPs, no harm in that. 100% agree, no harm at all, I like to think it would make them better IP's since they've been exposed to more things. I'm curious as to whether this will spread beyond SPS, since CAFB also has in house IFF, so there's potential. And it wouldn't really be that hard to have the DLF/END guys do IFF then walk across base and start PIT.
Hacker Posted June 14, 2018 Posted June 14, 2018 (edited) 21 hours ago, Standby said: Who gives a shit what you flew before? T-38 tac form has probably been the same for two decades. It doesn’t take an 11F to teach what LAB, 4-6k and stack level looks like. I think some 11F representation in the SUPT T-38 squadron is valuable, but why not drop those guys into IFF instructor seats or B course billets? Because this is how you get students who fly tac formation using the A-A TACAN, fly their turns using heading bugs and while looking at a PFR, execute the mechanics of the rejoin using numerical countdowns and airspeed cues, etc. In other words, all of the bad crutch techniques that have to be un-taught during the formation phase at IFF. Students who can't instead simply use the actual visual reference and "feel of the jet" techniques that are required to fly tac form while also being a good wingman. The techniques that, themselves, are only developed over many hours of having to fly tac form and also be an on-board systems and weapons manager, where you don't have time to use the crutches. Yet again, we are talking about experience, not talent. Edited June 14, 2018 by Hacker 1 2
brabus Posted June 14, 2018 Posted June 14, 2018 I'm curious as to whether this will spread beyond SPS It's been a thing at CAFB for over a year at least, maybe more.
Scooter14 Posted June 14, 2018 Posted June 14, 2018 My upside down flying stopped after Tweets and I was never really great at it anyway. Which explains why I tracked T-1s. My first six months of UPT summed up in two sentences right there.
ygtbsm Posted June 14, 2018 Posted June 14, 2018 Most heavy guys teaching T-38s will be flying for Delta in 2 years. So, I guess that makes this a non issue...
Duck Posted June 14, 2018 Posted June 14, 2018 All those -38 trained guys that were sent to bvllshit assignments back in 2008-2011 are probably the last captive(literally) audience that you could snag to teach -38 UPT. Wonder if IFF for those dudes would breed the right mentality.Most of us are gone. My group got hit with a ton of UAVs, Capt promotion boards, two VSPs and a RIF. I have more yet group friends flying for Delta now than I do left in the AF. Back when they opened up crossflow for us, I asked a lot of my buddies if they would sign up for a 3 year ADSC to fly the fighters they were promised and not a single one said they would. The ship is sinking gents, grab a life vest and hold on.
Hopefulflyer389 Posted June 14, 2018 Posted June 14, 2018 22 minutes ago, Duck said: Most of us are gone. My group got hit with a ton of UAVs, Capt promotion boards, two VSPs and a RIF. I have more yet group friends flying for Delta now than I do left in the AF. Back when they opened up crossflow for us, I asked a lot of my buddies if they would sign up for a 3 year ADSC to fly the fighters they were promised and not a single one said they would. The ship is sinking gents, grab a life vest and hold on. 1
Standby Posted June 14, 2018 Posted June 14, 2018 2 hours ago, Hacker said: Because this is how you get students who fly tac formation using the A-A TACAN, fly their turns using heading bugs and while looking at a PFR, execute the mechanics of the rejoin using numerical countdowns and airspeed cues, etc. Copy, 11F not required to instruct T-38s. 2
WheelsOff Posted June 14, 2018 Posted June 14, 2018 8 hours ago, brabus said: It's been a thing at CAFB for over a year at least, maybe more. What, sending FAIPs to IFF before PIT like the SPS guys? Nope, definitely haven’t been doing that at CBM...
Kenny Powers Posted June 14, 2018 Posted June 14, 2018 I don't pretend to know what it takes to make a good co-pilot or AC in the heavy world, so I don't understand why non fighter guys think they know what it takes to build a solid wingman in a fighter squadron. 3 2
LookieRookie Posted June 14, 2018 Posted June 14, 2018 1 minute ago, Kenny Powers said: I don't pretend to know what it takes to make a good co-pilot or AC in the heavy world, so I don't understand why non fighter guys think they know what it takes to build a solid wingman in a fighter squadron. Great point! I agree, that's why we have IFF and FTUs.
Kenny Powers Posted June 14, 2018 Posted June 14, 2018 True, but ideally those guys would learn solid formation and admin habits in -38s, then start fine tuning those habits in IFF, then have admin and wingman 101 type stuff down solid by the time they get to the B-course. When they dont have solid admin, they become a hindrance to the formation and tactics suffer. Not that non fighter guys can't teach the basics to a certain standard but they just lack the experience to understand how mistakes in admin can snowball into larger problems down the road, i.e. a new wingman almost hitting his flight lead on a radar assisted trail recover at night because he wasn't taught solid habit patterns. 1
TreeA10 Posted June 14, 2018 Posted June 14, 2018 Lack of admin skills combined with limited time and fuel.... yeah, that'll work.
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