“Red is the new Green”

[Homestar]

10 hours ago, Danger41 said:

If a young guy shows a desire to “be tactical” in the tanker community, is he ostracized by the old heads with the attitude in the previous posts or is that trait encouraged?

The ones I've seen are sent to WIC or eventually try to get into special programs like the U-2 or U-28.  I've even known a guy to go to the CV-22.

Generally more emphasis is placed on proficiency and systems knowledge in the -135.  But I've been out of it for a while now.

[FourFans]

On ‎7‎/‎17‎/‎2018 at 4:17 AM, Rufus said:

RWR and LAIRCM don’t make you tactical. Neither does flying low to the ground or using high bank angles.   

Shack.

If you're on a team but don't know or care how the rest of the team functions and what their strengths and weaknesses are, how you can help them, and how you can not hinder them, then you shouldn't be a part of the team.

A dialed in tanker dude with the SA to listen in on the right frequency can anticipate how a fight, engagement, or event is going, and then coordinate and place his asset where it's needed before he's asked to do so, thereby empowering the receivers to focus on more important things.

Quite frankly, the rest of the force doesn't care how well you're able to keep your airplane alive.  We care about your ability to anticipate the need for your effect, and insert yourself appropriately so that the rest of the team can function better.  I know that because I'm a herk dude.  No one cares how well I defend my airplane against an SA-blah.  They care that I know how and when to effectively integrate what I bring to the fight without placing undue burden on the rest of the team. 

Know how to carry your own weight and deliver your effect to the highest standard expected by your user. 

It is never someone else's job to figure out how you should be doing yours.

[Sprkt69]

1 hour ago, FourFans130 said:

Shack.

If you're on a team but don't know or care how the rest of the team functions and what their strengths and weaknesses are, how you can help them, and how you can not hinder them, then you shouldn't be a part of the team.

A dialed in tanker dude with the SA to listen in on the right frequency can anticipate how a fight, engagement, or event is going, and then coordinate and place his asset where it's needed before he's asked to do so, thereby empowering the receivers to focus on more important things.

Quite frankly, the rest of the force doesn't care how well you're able to keep your airplane alive.  We care about your ability to anticipate the need for your effect, and insert yourself appropriately so that the rest of the team can function better.  I know that because I'm a herk dude.  No one cares how well I defend my airplane against an SA-blah.  They care that I know how and when to effectively integrate what I bring to the fight without placing undue burden on the rest of the team. 

Know how to carry your own weight and deliver your effect to the highest standard expected by your user. 

It is never someone else's job to figure out how you should be doing yours.

You should give that speech to FSS too

[Craftsman]

Tankers don’t refuel MQ-9’s or U-28’s so.... v

[Danger41]

But they do refuel everybody that allows U-28’s and MQ-9’s to have any hope of survival once on objective...

The USAF’s ability to do its job is more dependent on the tanker force than any other asset.

[pawnman]

On 7/17/2018 at 11:03 AM, Homestar said:

One of my class DGs was a Nebraska Guard KC-135 guy. The rest of us who got tankers were solid middle third. I got exactly what I wanted out of UPT and spent half my career flying the -135. When I was a young copilot the tactics consisted of spiral up, spiral down (dumb tactics) and eventually just morphed into “just fly wings level and brace for impact.”  Why do I need to spend any seconds of my life studying the effective range of an SA-69 if there is literally nothing I can do about it?

id just as soon trust that all the pilots in my squadron can fly to the CP on time and give an efficient offload. 

I submit that if you don't have any game against threat systems, it's even more important for you to know the effective range so you can stay the hell out of the WEZ when the lowdown is passed..

[Gazmo]

Shack. If you're on a team but don't know or care how the rest of the team functions and what their strengths and weaknesses are, how you can help them, and how you can not hinder them, then you shouldn't be a part of the team.

A dialed in tanker dude with the SA to listen in on the right frequency can anticipate how a fight, engagement, or event is going, and then coordinate and place his asset where it's needed before he's asked to do so, thereby empowering the receivers to focus on more important things.

Quite frankly, the rest of the force doesn't care how well you're able to keep your airplane alive.  We care about your ability to anticipate the need for your effect, and insert yourself appropriately so that the rest of the team can function better.  I know that because I'm a herk dude.  No one cares how well I defend my airplane against an SA-blah.  They care that I know how and when to effectively integrate what I bring to the fight without placing undue burden on the rest of the team. 

Know how to carry your own weight and deliver your effect to the highest standard expected by your user. 

It is never someone else's job to figure out how you should be doing yours.

 

This all sounds great and you could bet your ass if we were allowed to run the show in the AOR like you portray, we'd be all over it, but in the grand scheme of things, we've been Kingpin/CAOC's puppet for the last almost two decades because some dude sitting in a building with 3 foot thick concrete walls and no windows thinks he knows how to run shit better than we do. The last time I did WTF I wanted was when I heard a pair of Vipers 10 min from bingo over the Med during OUP waiting for a French controller in a NATO AWACS to approve our transit to their area. By the time the controller got back to us with an approval, we had already .85'd it over there, got them on the boom and they were off to their targets shortly there after. Of course then there's the issue with what freq is everyone on? This is not the info that we need to be searching for in the jet. That info isn't going to be handed to us by the planners who are dealing with 40 sorties a day so it all goes back up to the top. Why do we need to be on the "right freq"? We're not allowed to run the show and do whatever we want when the AOR is run like an ARTCC. So we sit there and orbit and wait for our ARCT like we are expected to because ultimately, as mundane as that seems, that's the responsibility we've been given. Hey, we get paid the same either way. Maybe in a real conflict, things would be different, but this crackpipe fantasy that tanker dudes are going to cowboy it around the AOR because they thought they heard some shit go down on some JTAC freq and decided to "insert" themselves is bullshit. Getting fuel to the fight has been much more bureaucratic than you think it is.

 

 

 

 

[Fuzz]

2 hours ago, Gazmo said:

This all sounds great and you could bet your ass if we were allowed to run the show in the AOR like you portray, we'd be all over it, but in the grand scheme of things, we've been Kingpin/CAOC's puppet for the last almost two decades because some dude sitting in a building with 3 foot thick concrete walls and no windows thinks he knows how to run shit better than we do. The last time I did WTF I wanted was when I heard a pair of Vipers 10 min from bingo over the Med during OUP waiting for a French controller in a NATO AWACS to approve our transit to their area. By the time the controller got back to us with an approval, we had already .85'd it over there, got them on the boom and they were off to their targets shortly there after. Of course then there's the issue with what freq is everyone on? This is not the info that we need to be searching for in the jet. That info isn't going to be handed to us by the planners who are dealing with 40 sorties a day so it all goes back up to the top. Why do we need to be on the "right freq"? We're not allowed to run the show and do whatever we want when the AOR is run like an ARTCC. So we sit there and orbit and wait for our ARCT like we are expected to because ultimately, as mundane as that seems, that's the responsibility we've been given. Hey, we get paid the same either way. Maybe in a real conflict, things would be different.

 

Well considering you have apparently no interest in coming prepared to a real conflict based on yours and other’s statements on here, I would expect you to continue to be a puppet because the people do come prepared aren’t going to have the time to wait for you to get back in the vault to get smart on stuff you should know as a military aviator. 

We fight the same mentality in the C-17 world. “I don’t have RWR so why do I care about SAM threats? I can’t do anything about them.” It’s a false assumption and a willful lack of critical thinking.

Edited July 20, 2018 by Fuzz

[Homestar]

3 hours ago, pawnman said:

I submit that if you don't have any game against threat systems, it's even more important for you to know the effective range so you can stay the hell out of the WEZ when the lowdown is passed..

Valid

[dream big]

7 hours ago, Fuzz said:

Well considering you have apparently no interest in coming prepared to a real conflict based on yours and other’s statements on here, I would expect you to continue to be a puppet because the people do come prepared aren’t going to have the time to wait for you to get back in the vault to get smart on stuff you should know as a military aviator. 

We fight the same mentality in the C-17 world. “I don’t have RWR so why do I care about SAM threats? I can’t do anything about them.” It’s a false assumption and a willful lack of critical thinking.

The other one I’ve heard is “We would’ve had the SEAD take care of the RF threat before we even take off so I don’t need to waste my time studying those threats.” 

 

[Fuzz]

Well I hope those SEAD assets don't have to go very far to get to their targets.

[Warrior]

13 hours ago, dream big said:

The other one I’ve heard is “We would’ve had the SEAD take care of the RF threat before we even take off so I don’t need to waste my time studying those threats.” 

 

That is the kind of perception bred throughout the MAF (actually, most of the AF) by doing COIN in a (mostly) permissive environment for all of our careers.

Trump and Mattis have made it abundantly clear that we better be getting ready for Russian/China/North Korea. We can have a conversation about what that means - like whether the current infatuation with AERPS gear is appropriate or not. But IADS is a thing that the MAF is going to have to contend with in lots of ways, not just the SA-69 MRIR.

If you guys haven't read the NDS you should. https://www.defense.gov/Portals/1/Documents/pubs/2018-National-Defense-Strategy-Summary.pdf

Here's an excerpt from the NSS. https://www.whitehouse.gov/wp-content/uploads/2017/12/NSS-Final-12-18-2017-0905.pdf

The United States must retain overmatch— the combination of capabilities in sufficient scale to prevent enemy success and to ensure that America’s sons and daughters will never be in a fair fight. Overmatch strengthens our diplomacy and permits us to shape the international environment to protect our interests. To retain military overmatch the United States must restore our ability to produce innovative capabilities, restore the readiness of our forces for major war, and grow the size of the force so that it is capable of operating at sufficient scale and for ample duration to win across a range of scenarios. We must convince adversaries that we can and will defeat them—not just punish them if they attack the United States. We must ensure the ability to deter potential enemies by denial, convincing them that they cannot accomplish objectives through the use of force or other forms of aggression. We need our allies to do the same—to modernize, acquire necessary capabilities, improve readiness, expand the size of their forces, and affirm the political will to win.

 

[the g-man]

2 hours ago, Warrior said:

That is the kind of perception bred throughout the MAF (actually, most of the AF) by doing COIN in a (mostly) permissive environment for all of our careers.

Trump and Mattis have made it abundantly clear that we better be getting ready for Russian/China/North Korea. We can have a conversation about what that means - like whether the current infatuation with AERPS gear is appropriate or not. But IADS is a thing that the MAF is going to have to contend with in lots of ways, not just the SA-69 MRIR.

If you guys haven't read the NDS you should. https://www.defense.gov/Portals/1/Documents/pubs/2018-National-Defense-Strategy-Summary.pdf

Here's an excerpt from the NSS. https://www.whitehouse.gov/wp-content/uploads/2017/12/NSS-Final-12-18-2017-0905.pdf

The United States must retain overmatch— the combination of capabilities in sufficient scale to prevent enemy success and to ensure that America’s sons and daughters will never be in a fair fight. Overmatch strengthens our diplomacy and permits us to shape the international environment to protect our interests. To retain military overmatch the United States must restore our ability to produce innovative capabilities, restore the readiness of our forces for major war, and grow the size of the force so that it is capable of operating at sufficient scale and for ample duration to win across a range of scenarios. We must convince adversaries that we can and will defeat them—not just punish them if they attack the United States. We must ensure the ability to deter potential enemies by denial, convincing them that they cannot accomplish objectives through the use of force or other forms of aggression. We need our allies to do the same—to modernize, acquire necessary capabilities, improve readiness, expand the size of their forces, and affirm the political will to win.

 

Cool.

 

How are we going to do this without seriously cutting our current commitments so that there is time on the schedule to prep for this?  The current pace is not sustainable if you want to achieve readiness, at least not in the stratical corner of the MAF.

[matmacwc]

On 7/17/2018 at 6:18 AM, Homestar said:

What is this "vault" you speak of?

Tanker clowns spend time in the vault, but it's not about learning how to stay out of a WEZ.

This reminds me of a story......

There I was, no shit real world, Arabian Sea.  We were about to go feet wet into Pakistan and the F-16's had pushed forward, I was left on the fight deck of the KC-10 and I was asked to leave the cockpit for a crew landing briefing that was about 30 minutes out.  I don't KC-10, so gladly I left for the 5 minute game-plan huddle and then they opened the door again.  An American continent this large had never been where we were going, much less landed Vipers and KC-10's at said location, we hadn't even had interaction with their military at this level in 10 years (when this occurred) and had no idea what to expect.  The -10 crew was nervous, we are were a little, and their game-plan involved going as fast as they could at the lowest altitude.  I asked very respectably what they were trying to accomplish with the inherent danger of all of it,  they all shrugged their shoulders and told me that was what they were told to do.  69" in a vault would have told them differently.  We made it and had our passports promptly confiscated, but thats another story.

Edited July 21, 2018 by matmacwc

[Warrior]

Cool.
 
How are we going to do this without seriously cutting our current commitments so that there is time on the schedule to prep for this?  The current pace is not sustainable if you want to achieve readiness, at least not in the stratical corner of the MAF.

There’s the rub isn’t it? Leadership at the top has spoken and doing more with less means everyone is running for the door to Delta.

[Majestik Møøse]

8 hours ago, the g-man said:

How are we going to do this without seriously cutting our current commitments so that there is time on the schedule to prep for this?  The current pace is not sustainable if you want to achieve readiness, at least not in the stratical corner of the MAF.

You cut out the queep at home.  All of it.  No more burger burns. No more fundraising of any sort.  No more booster club.  No one in the squadron hears about an award or medal unless they’ve won it, as determined solely by the CC.  No one is ever informed about a volunteer or “professional development” opportunity.  Hire civilians; one per shop can basically handle all of the admin in Training, Mobility, Stan/Eval, and Scheduling.  Certify the largest office space in the building as a vault, make Comm give you some SIPR laptops. If there’s only one entrance and no windows, go for open storage.  Ask the Wing to force the Comm/Sq to do the work for you.  Tell the NAF or MAJCOM when they don’t. The Sq/CC takes stands like that because he’d rather tell the boss “no” than look like a pussy in front of his guys on the line. The guys on the line create that culture.

The current push-pull for your time is “Flying vs Queep vs Deploy vs Personal.” It could be “Proficiency Flying vs Improving Mission vs Deploy vs Personal,” and that’s solely up to your community.

[HU&W]

22 hours ago, Majestik Møøse said:

No more booster club.

Excellent post.  One add.  No more equating morale to donating $5 to the booster club to wear civilian clothes on Friday.  We're the military, and we need to build morale by getting really good at killing bad people and breaking their stuff.

[Rufus]

On 7/21/2018 at 9:21 PM, Majestik Møøse said:

You cut out the queep at home.  All of it.  No more burger burns. No more fundraising of any sort.  No more booster club.  No one in the squadron hears about an award or medal unless they’ve won it, as determined solely by the CC.  No one is ever informed about a volunteer or “professional development” opportunity.  Hire civilians; one per shop can basically handle all of the admin in Training, Mobility, Stan/Eval, and Scheduling.  Certify the largest office space in the building as a vault, make Comm give you some SIPR laptops. If there’s only one entrance and no windows, go for open storage.  Ask the Wing to force the Comm/Sq to do the work for you.  Tell the NAF or MAJCOM when they don’t. The Sq/CC takes stands like that because he’d rather tell the boss “no” than look like a in front of his guys on the line. The guys on the line create that culture.

The current push-pull for your time is “Flying vs Queep vs Deploy vs Personal.” It could be “Proficiency Flying vs Improving Mission vs Deploy vs Personal,” and that’s solely up to your community.

There’s a tanker squadron actually doing a lot of that right now.  No more exec shop.  Extra civ in CSS and 4 new contractors for scheduling, training and Stan/Eval.  Flight commanders are responsible for their people and put them up for awards if they’ve earned them. 1206s are only written for those who get pushed out of squadron.  Half of the squadron building is being converted to classified space. Interested to see if the flyers flock to the vault now with this new found time and freedom.

I suspect the cultural change will have to be supported by more than just one rogue commander.  Otherwise, it’ll always die after the Change of Command. It’s much easier for outsiders to come in and assume the tanker crew members are too dumb and lazy to care about combat airpower and to reinstitute the culture of “make it happen” and low expectations (i.e. just get your beans done). Turns out both assumptions are wildly incorrect and to the detriment of the entire strike package. The more situationally aware and knowledgeable of the various mission sets tankers are, the more effective the force as a whole.

Not sure I follow why we have to reject “professional development” in your vision (e.g. Safety school, AIS, Professional flying organization involvement, etc).  Professional development comes in many forms and can absolutely make you a better officer/aviator.  Maybe you’re talking about PME?  No need to try to convince me PME is broken—100% agree.

Oh...and agreed...volunteering should be 100% personal choice and not reportable to the AF in any fashion...including awards. 

[FourFans]

5 hours ago, HU&W said:

donating $5 to the booster club to wear civilian clothes on Friday

This is a thing?  Happening in the USAF?  UFB

[FourFans]

On ‎7‎/‎21‎/‎2018 at 5:10 PM, Warrior said:

The United States must retain overmatch— the combination of capabilities in sufficient scale to prevent enemy success and to ensure that America’s sons and daughters will never be in a fair fight.

This is no joke. Mobility is a key part of that.

Recent large scale exercise took international senior leaders though the concept of employing the one thing that the US can do that no-one else can match: global mobility married to global strike.  Put lots mobility assets loaded with max grunt in a part of the A2AD where bad guys aren't expecting it, and you've got a whole new ball game.  The world knows we can do this.  No one can match it.

If you think you can be a passive part of the mobility team and still meet those expectations, think again.

The USAF mobility world needs to embrace empowered leadership, and the line guys need to step up their proactivity.  The first few sentences of the video below describes EXACTLY what I hear when someone spouts off passive crap like:

On ‎7‎/‎20‎/‎2018 at 4:27 PM, Gazmo said:

So we sit there and orbit and wait for our ARCT like we are expected to because ultimately, as mundane as that seems, that's the responsibility we've been given.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OqmdLcyES_Q