Joyriding

[Guest BlueSky99]

I just watched a MAD video of Swiss mirage pilots hotshotting around the alps, and it awesome.

Silly question, but are USAF pilots ever allowed to go joyriding from time to time (solo, or with a flight?) Or, does every single flight have a clear, tactical purpose?

Not to sound like a 13 year old... but I was just wondering.

Thanks

[BFM this]

Would that be this video?

https://live.infomaniak.ch/rossy/avionchasse-1.wmv

[Toro]

Wow, awesome video.

For the most part, every flight is a training mission with a clear tactical purpose - that doesn't mean that they can't still be fun, though.

Occassionally we get a chance to just go out and fly with no real training objectives other than to relax and have fun. A lot of the time these these are on what we call 'fini' flights - a guy's last flight in the aircraft before he leaves a squadron.

[Guest bullseyekp]

A guy who introduced me to the guard unit he flew in told me a story about a joyride he took. He (then a Captain), a Lt. Colonel and a full bird were ferrying three A-7s to somewhere in the western US and were cruising along at about FL200. He said the full bird, leading the other two, rolled to an inverted position and yanked on the stick. The other two followed, but the Captain, after descending through 2000AGL, was sure the other two were going to eat dirt in about 20 seconds. Then, as he said, "the earth fell out below" and they were in the grand canyon. He said they enjoyed almost 30 minutes of running through the canyon at 200-500kts. The Captain left the guard shortly thereafter during an airframe transition and said that the new Viper pilots probably wouldn't be able to enjoy much more of that kind of activity due to the flight computer recording every detail of the flight. Imagine explaining to a superior why you were doing 500kts at -150MSL!?

Question for Toro and the other Viper pilots on the board, is that really an issue?

[Toro]

Originally posted by bullseyekp:

The Captain...said that the new Viper pilots probably wouldn't be able to enjoy much more of that kind of activity due to the flight computer recording every detail of the flight. Question for Toro and the other Viper pilots on the board, is that really an issue?

I'm in the Strike Eagle, not Vipers. :eek:

While the F-15Es computer can record details from flight, it's primarily engine information and the only time it would be reviewed would be in the case of a safety investigation. What could be reviewed would be your 8mm tape from the VTR system, but the fix to that is simply don't turn it on if you want to go hot dogging. That being said, if your intent is to go out and do something in direct violation of AF Instruction/Regulation (min altitude of 500' and max airspeed as applicable for MDS) you'd be lucky nowadays to not have somebody call your squadron or the local newspaper directly (saw it happen all the time at Lakenheath). And if you're out to be particularly stupid, you could end up dead and famous like the two IPs in the deadly T-6 crash last April.

[Bergman]

Pretty sweet video. Looked like a lot of fun.

To answer your question...we do that sort of joyriding all the time in the -135.

Ok, well maybe not. To steal a line from Lewis Black..."It's a 135...it is not a JOY to RIDE!"

A guy can dream though...

[Guest Raccoon]

Excellent video. Speaking of joyriding, I heard sometimes pilots take up someone from their repair crew and give them a ride, even let them fly a bit. Is this true?

[Guest rumblefish_2]

I've heard rumors of a range up in Canada that you can run during Maple Flag. Anybody that has been to Maple Flag ever heard of this?

[Toro]

Originally posted by Raccoon:

I heard sometimes pilots take up someone from their repair crew and give them a ride, even let them fly a bit. Is this true?

Yes, it's called an incentive ride. It's not up to us who gets to fly, it's generally offered as a reward to those who work hard and/or win awards (hence the name 'incentive'). The ones I've seen and given are primarily personnel directly supporting our mission (maintenance, life support, fab shop, CMS, etc.). When I take people up I tell them that I'll take off and land and they're free to fly anything else in between.

[ClearedHot]

Originally posted by Toro:

Yes, it's called an incentive ride. It's not up to us who gets to fly, it's generally offered as a reward to those who work hard and/or win awards (hence the name 'incentive'). The ones I've seen and given are primarily personnel directly supporting our mission (maintenance, life support, fab shop, CMS, etc.). When I take people up I tell them that I'll take off and land and they're free to fly anything else in between.

Toro,

Refreshing to hear that approach. My old squadron used to give a lot of incentive rides and it seemed to be a contest to see who could make the “guest” sick the fastest. I always took a different approach because I thought this is a once in a lifetime experience for most of these folks. I would only do what they wanted to do with in the bounds of the mission profile. Cudos to you for seeing the bigger picture.

[Guest deweygcc]

I agree Toro, thats really cool of you to do that. Clearedhot is 100% right , too many guys go nuts and take it as failure if the dude doesnt puke. They earned an incentice ride not a ride from hell, and its nice of you to give them that. To make them miserable is boderline cruel. I don't think some of those guys realize how much that guy in the back looks up to them and would LOVE to do for one day what that pilot does.

On a side note: how hard is it to make someone puke that has ZERO tolerance and is doing something completely unfamiliar and at a high rate of speed.

[Toro]

Originally posted by deweygcc:

how hard is it to make someone puke that has ZERO tolerance and is doing something completely unfamiliar and at a high rate of speed.

If they had zero tolerance it probably wouldn't be tough - I've even seen some self-proclaimed bada$$es lose their lunch on incentive rides. In fact, I know of several WSOs (and even pilots when they sit in the back seat) that have gotten sick. A lot of it has to do with not being in control of the aircraft while it's maneuvering. That's another reason to let the incentive flyer take the controls - it helps them not feel so queasy. After filling a bag, most people feel better and are ready for more yanking and banking.

[Guest deweygcc]

Originally posted by Toro:

If they had zero tolerance it probably wouldn't be tough - I've even seen some self-proclaimed bada$$es lose their lunch on incentive rides. In fact, I know of several WSOs (and even pilots when they sit in the back seat) that have gotten sick. A lot of it has to do with not being in control of the aircraft while it's maneuvering. That's another reason to let the incentive flyer take the controls - it helps them not feel so queasy. After filling a bag, most people feel better and are ready for more yanking and banking.

But some jerks "do their thing" then offer the controls. Having met an airman this happened too I was PISSED. He was given a ride from hell then offered the stick. He had thought it was a kudos type ride for his solid work. I can't stress how cruel that was to him. He said how much he used to lookup to the pilots. Poor kid decided he'd never want to be a pilot if thats what they had to do. I explain i was "SURE" thats just an enthusiastic pilot and it wasnt the norm.

It was a viper driver FYI.

[UPT-hopeful]

Sorry! My father is retiring from DAL this weekend so I was at home with the family discussing things and completely missed the post from C5Heavy.

Here are the relevant links:

HTML Page

Actual WMV file

You can use the first link if you need to, but most people can right click on the second link directly and select "Save As". If anyone needs any help, let me know! I'm d/l from it right now at about 300k/sec so it should be fast for most people.

As I've said earlier, I've got gigs and gigs of bandwidth, so tear it up folks!

On a side note - if anybody is worried about getting popped by an IT dept. because of the domain name either d/l it from home or let me know and I can put it on a different domain. For the record, there isn't any questionable material on that domain.

Thanks to C5Heavy for the WMV file.

[ 29. October 2004, 12:48: Message edited by: UPT-hopeful ]

[Guest 135Driver]

TORO Said

"While the F-15Es computer can record details from flight, it's primarily engine information and the only time it would be reviewed would be in the case of a safety investigation. What could be reviewed would be your 8mm tape from the VTR system, but the fix to that is simply don't turn it on if you want to go hot dogging."

While many pilots think that is true I know of 2 people that are no longer flying due to that train of thought. One from Montana, and the other from ND. People forget about that little box on the side of your seat. You know the one that they look at if you crash. Well both of the chumps I'm talkin about forgot about the box and when they were asked if they were hot-dogging, they said no. After they walked out a call was made to life support and the boxes were down loaded. The tape doesn't lie.

[Guest croftfam]

I got many incentive rides while I was a casual guy awaiting pilot training. They were tons of fun! Nobody tried to make me lose my cookies, but maybe it was because they were Viper guys After being in an operational fighter sq, then in UPT (fixed wing world), and then in the rotary wing world, I'm still so surprised how much of a pissing contest things turn into with the "I'm an Eagle guy!" or "Vipers are better" or "Fighters suck!" Come on, the best pilots I've seen are the ones that respect everybodies job, and understand that they all have their difficulties. Besides...everyone knows that CSAR is the way to go. J/K. Not accusing anyone here, but just because someone knew some jerk viper guys, doesn't mean there aren't some jerk eagle guys.

My 2cents.

[Toro]

Originally posted by 135Driver:

People forget about that little box on the side of your seat. You know the one that they look at if you crash. Well both of the chumps I'm talkin about forgot about the box and when they were asked if they were hot-dogging, they said no. After they walked out a call was made to life support and the boxes were down loaded. The tape doesn't lie.

You have no idea what you're talking about. The only 'tape' is the VTRS, and it's aircrew controlled. The engine recording isn't something that life support can pull (life support doesn't touch anything in the jet unless it is directly related to the egress system or mask and oxygen system), and it's not something you would pull if somebody was accused of 'hot-dogging' unless that led to some sort of safety investigation.

[ 11. January 2005, 21:24: Message edited by: Toro ]

[POKESC17]

I was fortunate enough to get a viper incentive with a pilot who was more concerned about me enjoying the ride than trying to push the plane to its limits. He pretty much did what toro did, but after I figured out I could handle it I told him to let loose. Most fun I've ever had with my clothes on and I'm the only guy in my API class that can honestly say that I have done MACH .99 @ 500 MSL and been over 9g's. That ride is what pushed me to get my commission and go for my wings.