It's Official, OCPs are Coming!

[Homestar]

Good call. Sign me up for IEU!

[StoleIt]

Anyone know, under Authorized Duty Identifier Tabs (Table 5.4), what Combat Aviation/CAA entails?

I wouldn't mind having a big fat patch on my shoulder that screams "AIRCREW/former zipper suited sun God."

Example:

[Breckey]

Combat Aviation Advisor

Pretty much be in the 6th SOS.

[StoleIt]

15 minutes ago, Breckey said:

Combat Aviation Advisor

Pretty much be in the 6th SOS.

Gotcha, they dropped the "Advisor" part on definition in the 2903.

So...can we lobby to get "AIRCREW" patches made?

[nunya]

1 hour ago, StoleIt said:

So...can we lobby to get "AIRCREW" patches made?

Why beat around the bush (sts)?  Might as well spell out what the E-9s will see anyway.

[Fuzz]

The C-17 crews have been wearing patches similar to those above with duty positions (Pilot, Load, Chief, Raven) the left shoulder flap of the A2CUs for a while now. A lot of people get all worked up about it, since it's not allowed per the AFI but SF, Fire and AE crews all get special patches because who knows why.

[Lawman]

yeah...all the Army pilots want the 1 piece flight suits back...Ill just leave this here...

 

They hell they do.

 

The people that want the 1 piece back have never tried to take a crap in one during an FTX.

 

2 piece DCU is still regarded by anybody that wore it the gold standard of flight suits the Army has had. The current OCP is right behind it except for some reason you cannot wear it for more than 2 months of regular use without the crotch blowing out.

 

 

Now the unit patch.... (worn right side chest above nametape like a squadron patch) that is something those of us that had it would kill to bring back. That went away about 2013 when they decided the flight suit designed to look like a regular duty uniform that isn’t allowed to be used as a regular duty uniform needed to look more like a regular duty uniform....

 

 

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[Tank]

17 hours ago, Breckey said:

Combat Aviation Advisor

Pretty much be in the 6th SOS.

Or the 711th SOS

[pilot]

17 hours ago, Lawman said:

 

They hell they do.

 

The people that want the 1 piece back have never tried to take a crap in one during an FTX.

 

2 piece DCU is still regarded by anybody that wore it the gold standard of flight suits the Army has had. The current OCP is right behind it except for some reason you cannot wear it for more than 2 months of regular use without the crotch blowing out.

 

 

Now the unit patch.... (worn right side chest above nametape like a squadron patch) that is something those of us that had it would kill to bring back. That went away about 2013 when they decided the flight suit designed to look like a regular duty uniform that isn’t allowed to be used as a regular duty uniform needed to look more like a regular duty uniform....

 

 

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68/69 army pilots I surveyed would rather have a bag. The only ones who don’t want a bag are the army dorks who like doing grunt things and looking like ground pounders. The logistics of taking a shit are secondary to looking like a pilot and the other comforts/convenience a bag provides. 

Edited October 8, 2018 by FlyArmy

[Lawman]

68/69 army pilots I surveyed would rather have a bag. The only ones who don’t want a bag are the army dorks who like doing grunt things and looking like ground pounders. The logistics of taking a shit are secondary to looking like a pilot and the other comforts/convenience a bag provides. 

 

Right and in all these years people were screaming to get into the 2 piece when both were available down range. They weren’t trying to get out of a 2 piece back into the bag.

 

Like I said the morons that want the bag have never worn it in a service run by not pilots.

 

Unless you like the idea of changing uniforms to go to lunch at the main post PX because we treat bags like we treat tankers coveralls... not allowed out in public. (Real policy that existed on Fort Hood at one point)

 

 

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[Bigred]

I can say on the Navy side, those that are allowed to wear a two piece (non-ejection seat crew) hands down prefer the 2 piece over the 1 piece. Its more comfortable out of the aircraft and while flying you can combine it with a combat shirt to make it leaps and bounds above a 1 piece. 

[olevelo]

Looking cool >>>> comfort


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[ATIS]

On 10/8/2018 at 12:05 AM, Lawman said:

2 piece DCU is still regarded by anybody that wore it the gold standard of flight suits the Army has had.

Truth!!...appreciated the guys letting me aquire some of these.....wore the crap out of them.  

 

ATIS

[spaceman]

Soooo are we sticking with sage green boots w/ flight suit or will they eventually be coyote?

I've been wearing coyote boots with a green flight suit recently just because my brown boots are comfy and my green boots are shot. No one has said shit to me so far so I'm going to keep doing it.

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[hindsight2020]

Thank god for ejection seats.  

[Yoda]

On 10/9/2018 at 1:16 AM, Lawman said:

Unless you like the idea of changing uniforms to go to lunch at the main post PX because we treat bags like we treat tankers coveralls... not allowed out in public. (Real policy that existed on Fort Hood at one point)

While the extreme minority (for now), I have had leaders suggest precisely this with OCP 2-piece...  More prevalent: we need to go see a GO/Ground COL therefore we must change out of these 2-piecers or don't wear the 2-piece unless you are on the flight schedule (good luck when someone drops or you need a maintenance test flight).  While the "new shiny" will always get people (I remember when people rushed to buy UCP ACUs), if you offered the bag now you would probably see 90% of the Army pilots lining up for them.

If the Air Force has a pilot crisis, then I don't know what the word is for the Army's situation.  The difference is the Air Force has at least started making the control input while the Army is still in "everything's fine" mode.  One of the complaints from the liberation front is that aviation has lost its identify via the bag and unit patches above the nametape.  It might sound whiny, but it is definitely important to some.

PS: When I have to change to go to the food court, it's civilian clothes.  Preferably Affliction or TAPOUT brand.

Edited October 11, 2018 by Yoda
reasons.

[BFM this]

On 10/8/2018 at 8:16 AM, Lawman said:

.Unless you like the idea of changing uniforms to go to lunch at the main post PX because we treat bags like we treat tankers coveralls... not allowed out in public. (Real policy that existed on Fort Hood at one point)

You say that as though it isn’t a completely  artificial construct, fabricated by insecure leadership.  The way you say it, it’s as though you think it’s normal or something. It sounds...institutionalized.

“[It’s a] Real policy that existed [...]”. Naw man, it wasn’t real.  It was a policy, yes, but it was a figment nonetheless.

A different perspective is that of the fifth monkey who just got into the cage, and there’s a banana up on that ladder.  ...just sayin.

Edited October 11, 2018 by BFM this

[Lawman]

You say that as though it isn’t a completely  artificial construct, fabricated by insecure leadership.  The way you say it, it’s as though you think it’s normal or something. It sounds...institutionalized. “[it’s a] Real policy that existed [...]”. Naw man, it wasn’t real.  It was a policy, yes, but it was a figment nonetheless. A different perspective is that of the fifth monkey who just got into the cage, and there’s a banana up on that ladder.  ...just sayin.  

 

 

 It’s the Army. More specifically it’s the conventional Army.  You seem to be mistaken as to where Aviations pecking order is on divisional decision making. Even here at Campbell in the vaunted Air Assault divisions back yard where aviation is a pivotal part in their mission set they take a back seat to ground people making ground decisions. You ever paint your face in a field site sitting next to a 50 foot long aircraft hidden from nobody? Because I have. It’s stupid as hell, but it’s what the head master wants.

 

Anybody in the Army that thinks somehow that’s gonna change with the addition of a uniform we’ve been there and done that with is horribly misinformed and would do well to listen to the voices of experience that can tell it like it was. Instead we will do what we always do, get something new, go back on our promises, and bitch about it on the back of end. Best thing for Army aviators to do is just enjoy the flight pay, or go non conventional. Assessments run every 2-4 weeks, show up in shape. This culture will not get better.

 

And yes, being able to take a crap without downloading all my kit is more important to me than playing dress up and looking cool for 14 year olds at the PX, because let’s face it outside work I’m not wearing work clothes. Far and above more important than that, the new flight kit that replaces air warrior... needs you to be wearing a two piece flight suit. I’ll gladly trade a onesie to not have to wear air warrior anymore.

 

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[pilot]

Lawman, you realize you are speaking army to a bunch of Air Force guys, right? I don’t think the majority of this board understands much of what you just said, nor do they care about asinine army policies that aren’t applicable to 99.969% of the readers of this forum. This OCP conversation is mostly about the AF’s new OCP policies, and the discussion is mostly from an AF pilots perspective. Army policies are mostly irrelevant here. 

[Lawman]

Lawman, you realize you are speaking army to a bunch of Air Force guys, right? I don’t think the majority of this board understands much of what you just said, nor do they care about asinine army policies that aren’t applicable to 99.969% of the readers of this forum. This OCP conversation is mostly about the AF’s new OCP policies, and the discussion is mostly from an AF pilots perspective. Army policies are mostly irrelevant here. 

 You realize having worn both uniforms and realizing the only people who we are “looking cool for” are each other and 14 year olds I don’t want nor need the bag to somehow validate myself in life right?

 

Again, the only people in the Army who want or actively cry about people wanting to go back to a 1 piece simply don’t know how good they have it right now with a 2. The people in the Air Force that are going to this uniform kicking and screaming “oh god we look like the Army now” might want to look at pictures pre digital camo stupid.... when we all looked “like the Army” in utilities except for the Marines who rolled their sleeves wrong and wore their little pointy hat.

 

2 piece is better. It’s just as fire proof, it’s way easier to take a top off in the heat than roll sleeves or god forbid wear them wrapped at the waist, and it works with gear far more comfortable than what we wear/wore with leg straps (can’t speak to G suits and don’t care as a helicopter guy). And I’d pay real money to get the DCU patterns cut back with the current camo OCP. Fix that and it’s perfect, especially when worn with the combat shirt.

 

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[Sprkt69]

2 hours ago, Lawman said:

 You realize having worn both uniforms and realizing the only people who we are “looking cool for” are each other and 14 year olds I don’t want nor need the bag to somehow validate myself in life right?

 

Again, the only people in the Army who want or actively cry about people wanting to go back to a 1 piece simply don’t know how good they have it right now with a 2. The people in the Air Force that are going to this uniform kicking and screaming “oh god we look like the Army now” might want to look at pictures pre digital camo stupid.... when we all looked “like the Army” in utilities except for the Marines who rolled their sleeves wrong and wore their little pointy hat.

 

2 piece is better. It’s just as fire proof, it’s way easier to take a top off in the heat than roll sleeves or god forbid wear them wrapped at the waist, and it works with gear far more comfortable than what we wear/wore with leg straps (can’t speak to G suits and don’t care as a helicopter guy). And I’d pay real money to get the DCU patterns cut back with the current camo OCP. Fix that and it’s perfect, especially when worn with the combat shirt.

 

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As a G-suit wearer, I don’t care about your 2-piece. The Air Force left the Army for a reason.

[pilot]

3 hours ago, Lawman said:

 

You realize having worn both uniforms and realizing the only people who we are “looking cool for” are each other and 14 year olds I don’t want nor need the bag to somehow validate myself in life right?

 

Again, the only people in the Army who want or actively cry about people wanting to go back to a 1 piece simply don’t know how good they have it right now with a 2. The people in the Air Force that are going to this uniform kicking and screaming “oh god we look like the Army now” might want to look at pictures pre digital camo stupid.... when we all looked “like the Army” in utilities except for the Marines who rolled their sleeves wrong and wore their little pointy hat.

 

2 piece is better. And I’d pay real money to get the DCU patterns cut back with the current camo OCP. Fix that and it’s perfect, especially when worn with the combat shirt.

 

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You sound very angry towards people In bags or who want bags. To address some of your salty points, I don’t need it to validate myself in life, but thanks for your unsolicited concern. I got plenty of things besides a piece of green clothing for that. I just prefer it for its functionality, comfort, and appearance compared to the alternative. I started in a bag in the army, then A2CUs (BDU version, ACU version, and OCP version before I got out a few years ago). OCPs worked well with all our army crap. Still preferred the bag though. But as an Air Force guy now, I don’t care about army kit, or army policies, or army anything, and most of my Air Force bro’s don’t either. Maybe the helo guys do but I haven’t talked to many of them. I have no use for a 2 piece now.

Fortunately I don’t see bags going away from the ejection seat community so this doesn’t really affect me. But you can keep your 2 piece since it suits your retarded army base policies and it’s easier for you to take a shit and go to the field and play army and all that fun stuff. But all my army bro’s would love to go back to a bag. And no, your point saying the only ones who want a 1 piece are guys who haven’t worn both is patently false. I, and all the dudes I went through army flight school with in bags, much prefer that to a 2 piece for everyday wear. If OCP A2CUs work for AMC or helo bro’s here, cool...whatever makes the mission happen and makes life easier for people.  OCPs as a non flyer duty uniform look 69x better than ABUs. I welcome that change and don’t care about looking like the army in that regard. 

As stated, there’s a reason the Air Force left the army, and a reason many army guys still leave (try to leave) the army for the air guard/res. Of all the dudes who have hit me up on here asking with transition help, I’d say half have mentioned the thought of wearing a bag again as a positive thing, and wish the army would go back to that. The view on flight suits by the army, both in their wear and associated rules, some of which you mentioned, is a microcosm of the shit culture you guys have to deal with. Glad I’m out. Enjoy. ✌

Edited October 11, 2018 by FlyArmy

[Breckey]

7 hours ago, Lawman said:

Far and above more important than that, the new flight kit that replaces air warrior... needs you to be wearing a two piece flight suit. I’ll gladly trade a onesie to not have to wear air warrior anymore.

What replacing Air Warrior? I saw he contract for ABAV was awarded earlier this year but I thought that was only for SOAR.

[Lawman]

What replacing Air Warrior? I saw he contract for ABAV was awarded earlier this year but I thought that was only for SOAR.

ABAV is a wide project, with SOAR using it as the stepping stone between current issue and the next step SOAR specific ALSE and Helmet.

Air Warrior is simply what currently in the inventory in mass so while SOAR outfits 2/4 battalions as first priority ABAV and the previous SOAR vest that was piecemeal out in the conventional will start replacing air warrior to mainline CABs later in FY19/20.

What’s important is that gone are the days of pinching your dick and or balls in a leg strap getting in/out of an aircraft.... understandably it’s mostly just a helicopter problem (gauntlet thrown).


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[Lawman]

You sound very angry towards people In bags or who want bags.


The view on flight suits by the army, both in their wear and associated rules, some of which you mentioned, is a microcosm of the shit culture you guys have to deal with. Glad I’m out. Enjoy.

Don’t get me wrong I don’t hate bags or bag people, but we’ve got 99 climate culture problems and 1 piece vs 2 piece fixes none of them.

To you guys that want to make this your hill to die on, you’re missing the forest for the tree with this. The military regardless of branch needs you right now. More than you need it for that point. If your gonna piss capital away on which uniform you can look cooler wearing during your next voluntold 179, I can’t help you. I’m more worried about big problems than looking cool at location X.


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