What is next for the UPT-Next graduates?

[Trogdor]

19 hours ago, FlyArmy said:

Which is why I said “So long as it wasn’t too saturated with Luke, TUS, and DM traffic.”  I don’t request or use airspace in the area. Just said on paper it looks like there is a lot of airspace out there to use. Apparently not enough. 

Think someone already said it, but Reese would be perfect.  Airspace still on the sectional (hardly used from what I have seen) but it also says it is a private field now, but I know the pavement of the old three runways is still there.  If you look at from the air, it still looks like an AFB.  I bet many in AFSOC would of been much happier if AFSOC West could of been an hour down the road in Red Raider country.  

[LiquidSky]

4 hours ago, Trogdor said:

Think someone already said it, but Reese would be perfect.  Airspace still on the sectional (hardly used from what I have seen) but it also says it is a private field now, but I know the pavement of the old three runways is still there.  If you look at from the air, it still looks like an AFB.  I bet many in AFSOC would of been much happier if AFSOC West could of been an hour down the road in Red Raider country.  

It's pretty quiet out there. The Laughlin T-1s use LBB for trans sorties if everywhere else is socked in and it's regularly used by T-1 nav sorties. I don't recall an overwhelming amount of commercial or civilian traffic, most of that is down in Midland. Not even sure how much the Lancer moas get used by the dyess folks.

[viper154]

5 hours ago, Trogdor said:

Think someone already said it, but Reese would be perfect.  Airspace still on the sectional (hardly used from what I have seen) but it also says it is a private field now, but I know the pavement of the old three runways is still there.  If you look at from the air, it still looks like an AFB.  I bet many in AFSOC would of been much happier if AFSOC West could of been an hour down the road in Red Raider country.  

Hell ya we would. Most of us take 1.7 hour drive that way monthly. Always depressing leaving Lubbock and going back to Cannonistan  

 

41 minutes ago, LiquidSky said:

It's pretty quiet out there. The Laughlin T-1s use LBB for trans sorties if everywhere else is socked in and it's regularly used by T-1 nav sorties. I don't recall an overwhelming amount of commercial or civilian traffic, most of that is down in Midland. Not even sure how much the Lancer moas get used by the dyess folks.

LBB has some commercial traffic, more than CBM/END/DLF, but nothing crazy that couldn’t be worked around. Every flight I’ve ever taken out of LBB was east, the opposite direction of Reece. 

[Homestar]

What’s the concrete like on all these old retired UPT bases? Are any of them still functioning without a billion dollars of concrete upgrades?

[Sprkt69]

29 minutes ago, viper154 said:

Hell ya we would. Most of us take 1.7 hour drive that way monthly. Always depressing leaving Lubbock and going back to Cannonistan  

 

LBB has some commercial traffic, more than CBM/END/DLF, but nothing crazy that couldn’t be worked around. Every flight I’ve ever taken out of LBB was east, the opposite direction of Reece. 

A little easier of a drive than the 3.5 hr drive to ABQ 

[Majestik Møøse]

You guys are actually picking potential UPT bases based on suitability for flying ops and livability, lol. First figure out which Senator is due for a win, then sort by which base is losing a current mission.

[Danger41]

KRCA seems like it’d be a great UPT base (if added 2 more runways). Powder River MOAs are close, airspace is wide open, tons of ramp space, pretty good weather year round (obviously some winter issues). 

[tac airlifter]

2 hours ago, Majestik Møøse said:

You guys are actually picking potential UPT bases based on suitability for flying ops and livability, lol. First figure out which Senator is due for a win, then sort by which base is losing a current mission.

Shack, unfortunately.  Lots of great ideas for increasing QOL along with mission effectiveness.  Neither are variables considered in actual discussions on this topic.  

[Torch09]

17 hours ago, LiquidSky said:

Not even sure how much the Lancer moas get used by the dyess folks.

Lancer is surprisingly busy:  90% Bones, the rest from BUFFs (KBAD), Vipers (NFW), C-130s, and the occasional F-35 (Lockheed plant, DFW).  IR-128, while flat and soul-less, starts and ends in Lancer for a hip-pocket LOWAT rehack.  Snyder is a pretty good EA site, used and abused by all 5 squadrons at Dyess.  Adding some AETC traffic is possible, but not ideal.  

[Stitch]

On 10/22/2018 at 4:31 PM, Homestar said:

What’s the concrete like on all these old retired UPT bases? Are any of them still functioning without a billion dollars of concrete upgrades?

KMWH, not AETC but a former SAC base. It's a still up and running airport with a shit ton of ramp/runway space. Out in the middle of BFE Washington (state) but good WX most of the year.  Just have to deal with Community College flight training traffic and TCM and NUW guys beating up the pattern.  

[matmacwc]

On 10/22/2018 at 3:42 PM, LiquidSky said:

It's pretty quiet out there. The Laughlin T-1s use LBB for trans sorties if everywhere else is socked in and it's regularly used by T-1 nav sorties. I don't recall an overwhelming amount of commercial or civilian traffic, most of that is down in Midland. Not even sure how much the Lancer moas get used by the dyess folks.

Only place I saw a crash not called a crash.

[pawnman]

On 10/23/2018 at 10:55 AM, Torch09 said:

Lancer is surprisingly busy:  90% Bones, the rest from BUFFs (KBAD), Vipers (NFW), C-130s, and the occasional F-35 (Lockheed plant, DFW).  IR-128, while flat and soul-less, starts and ends in Lancer for a hip-pocket LOWAT rehack.  Snyder is a pretty good EA site, used and abused by all 5 squadrons at Dyess.  Adding some AETC traffic is possible, but not ideal.  

Can confirm. Almost every B-1 schoolhouse sortie includes some Lancer time.

[Trogdor]

3 hours ago, pawnman said:

Can confirm. Almost every B-1 schoolhouse sortie includes some Lancer time.

Does the B-1 use the Bronco MOA's?  From my time at Cannon they seemed mostly inactive.  Although, we only headed that way occasionally, asking ATC to cut the corner through the Bronco MOA's.  

[pawnman]

6 hours ago, Trogdor said:

Does the B-1 use the Bronco MOA's?  From my time at Cannon they seemed mostly inactive.  Although, we only headed that way occasionally, asking ATC to cut the corner through the Bronco MOA's.  

It's rare, but not unheard of.  There's no EA site in Bronco.  

[Torch09]

7 hours ago, pawnman said:

It's rare, but not unheard of.  There's no EA site in Bronco.  

We've been directed to AR in Bronco a few times to justify it's existence.  There's a B-21s-at-Dyess incentive plan to bridge Bronco and Lancer, add in some Link-16 infrastructure all the way out to Pecos, and make a super-MOA.  They call it the Raider MOA...keen.

[Fuzz]

On 10/24/2018 at 12:59 PM, Stitch said:

KMWH, not AETC but a former SAC base. It's a still up and running airport with a shit ton of ramp/runway space. Out in the middle of BFE Washington (state) but good WX most of the year.  Just have to deal with Community College flight training traffic and TCM and NUW guys beating up the pattern.  

KMWH is busy pretty fricken busy between the flight school, Boeing test flights, test flights from some other companies, regular GA traffic, firefighters in the summer, McChords primary AUX field (3 squadrons + the C-17 WIC), and the Growlers out of Whidbey. The airspace is wide open sure but Moses is on any given weekday is about as busy as a UPT base already.

[JimNtexas]

https://www.airforcetimes.com/news/your-air-force/2019/04/01/vr-flight-training-goes-international-brits-join-pilot-training-next/

[matmacwc]

Wow!  I just talked to a few ANG buddies, most are in leadership now (no, I’m not important, just old) and more than 1 of them said they’d never send their UPT students to this “experiment”.  I wouldn’t want to be the weak swimmer in a squadron full of type A killers.

[Sua Sponte]

On 10/25/2018 at 10:47 PM, Fuzz said:

KMWH is busy pretty fricken busy between the flight school, Boeing test flights, test flights from some other companies, regular GA traffic, firefighters in the summer, McChords primary AUX field (3 squadrons + the C-17 WIC), and the Growlers out of Whidbey. The airspace is wide open sure but Moses is on any given weekday is about as busy as a UPT base already.

-135’s from KSKA go there as well.

[ThreeHoler]

Wow!  I just talked to a few ANG buddies, most are in leadership now (no, I’m not important, just old) and more than 1 of them said they’d never send their UPT students to this “experiment”.  I wouldn’t want to be the weak swimmer in a squadron full of type A killers.

I’ve flown with one of the PTN graduates. Statistics of small numbers...but a better product than regular UPT is churning out right now.

[matmacwc]

8 minutes ago, ThreeHoler said:

 

I’ve flown with one of the PTN graduates. Statistics of small numbers...but a better product than regular UPT is churning out right now.

 

I’ll be curious if there is ever a “report” that doesn’t blow sunshine.  I just know I was a phase 3 guy for 4 years (-38) and we hardly had time to finish everything as it was.  Any of them attempt IFF yet?  I can’t get the inside scoop until their in some sort of fighter pipeline.

[ViperStud]

Problem is that the initial PTN trainees were heavily screened, accepting something like 10/200 - only the best candidates. Let’s see what happens when the average stud goes through the program before we talk about it cranking out a better product. 

IFF, as originally intended, is dead. The writing on the wall is that, should PTN go full-scale, IFF goes away. The washout rate is way down and we at the FTUs have had to drop the hammer where they have failed. We’ve washed out several punks over the past few years that simply didn’t belong in a fighter FTU. We called back to the 435th about the last one and got a canned “he met the course requirements” answer. IFF is simply under the thumb of AD leadership and their “graduate more” mandate. 

Rant sw - off

[ThreeHoler]

I’ll be curious if there is ever a “report” that doesn’t blow sunshine.  I just know I was a phase 3 guy for 4 years (-38) and we hardly had time to finish everything as it was.  Any of them attempt IFF yet?  I can’t get the inside scoop until their in some sort of fighter pipeline.

I will never blow sunshine. Flying is too important. Yes, the initial PTN guys were screened. My understanding from friends who set up the PTN concept was to establish a baseline from people who already had flying experience so they could actually measure Joe Newhire’s performance against something objective.

I wasn’t involved with any of the pipeline part. I don’t want to toss out this person’s previous experience but I’m sure it is a factor.

I think it is worth looking at ways to “optimize” UPT and FTU training. I don’t think it is worth cutting just to produce faster/more.

[di1630]

I just know I was a phase 3 guy for 4 years (-38) and we hardly had time to finish everything as it was.

Yeah, we’ll, that’s because we spent a lot of time teaching stuff that dudes had to be proficient in at UPT but never really need in real life.

Number of times I’ve needed to do a formation landing in 3,500 hours of mil flying....ZERO.

Granted, it’s all good stuff to have experience with but a lot of it is low likelihood contingency items, great to be familiar/safely able, not necessary to be masterful.

This goes beyond UPT.

Call me full of sh-t if you like but go visit the AOR, it’s PGMs and BOC 99% of the time.

I can get a wingman to a CR level in 2019 much quicker than I could in 2005 and the reason is technology.

I fully support updating the training syllabus and technique.


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[Sprkt69]

4 hours ago, di1630 said:

Yeah, we’ll, that’s because we spent a lot of time teaching stuff that dudes had to be proficient in at UPT but never really need in real life.

Number of times I’ve needed to do a formation landing in 3,500 hours of mil flying....ZERO.

Granted, it’s all good stuff to have experience with but a lot of it is low likelihood contingency items, great to be familiar/safely able, not necessary to be masterful.

This goes beyond UPT.

Call me full of sh-t if you like but go visit the AOR, it’s PGMs and BOC 99% of the time.

I can get a wingman to a CR level in 2019 much quicker than I could in 2005 and the reason is technology.

I fully support updating the training syllabus and technique.


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So we can rely on only PGM and BOC in all our future conflicts? Weren’t you one of those who said we didn’t need more F-22s too?