How Long For New Studs To Be Disillusioned?

[matmacwc]

EPAF exchange, who wants to do that?

[SocialD]

1 hour ago, di1630 said:

Back when I wAs LPA...”

Hmmmm, ALPA...  Nice subliminal messaging.

[billy pilgrim]

Where I'm at we finally got a bunch of contract support in the squadron, which really frees up the time of the younger guys.  We have WDO / Scheduling / Training and basically a mini CSS again (completely bragging).  So I would say the quality of life of first assignment guys is higher, but it doesn't really matter because they are really excited to be in an ops unit and they don't know any different.

There is a ton of real world operational experience on this board.  AD USAF gives you a lot of opportunities that are not available anywhere else, but also it is highly variable and your results will vary significantly with your peers.  The bottom line is that AD has a lot better deals and a lot worse deals than ANG.

I think if you're the type of person that wants to fly in combat, you'll probably be drawn to AD - and good on you.  The frustration here on the board is because AD could be so much better than it is.  It's not that people don't like AD, it's all the surrounding BS that gets in the way.

 

[brabus]

Di1630 fucking nailed it. 

I don’t think flying military aircraft is worth putting my family through hell, working so much the kid barely knows you, only being able to live in shitty locations where your spouse struggles to find a professional career of their own, and having absolutely no control of your life

so why did you even go to UPT? Also, I recommend you step back a little and try to take in a bigger picture. How you just described your idea of what life in the AF is screams shitty attitude/hell bent on being negative. Your family will not go through hell just because you’re gone or you don’t live in your dream location. Yes there are good times and tough times, but that’s life no matter what you do or where you live. If you choose to have a positive attitude, you’ll likely find you enjoy a lot of things about being a mil pilot and you are actually able to provide a descent life for your family. The next 8-9 years will fly by in a second, don’t spend them being negative Nancy/making the AF the scapegoat for all your “problems.”

[JeremiahWeed]

3 hours ago, euser said:

 I don’t think flying military aircraft is worth putting my family through hell, working so much the kid barely knows you, only being able to live in shitty locations where your spouse struggles to find a professional career of their own, and having absolutely no control of your life.

When I have the 10 seconds every other flight that I’m not stressed about getting flight violated, killing someone, killing myself, or being bad at my job it can be enjoyable.

 My bitterness really started when I was forced 38’s under the guise of universal assignability and that I’ll still be able to get a C-5, and then dropped an 11F when the only thing lower was AFSOC airframes.

  Most of the guys my age care about nothing but killing people and going to war with no regard for life outside the military, it’s just not my goals.

I'd say it's pretty obvious you chose poorly.  WTF did you even go to UPT for?  Show me the information you used to come to the conclusion that you wouldn't be expected to work long hours, live somewhere you may not have chosen to live or control every aspect of your life?  Holy shit dude!  Do you think civilians in professional fields don't work long hours or get relocated?   Military families sacrifice.  That's not new information.  How about your spouse worry less about her professional career and more about raising your kids.  One less group of latchkey kids in daycare which ends up costing just as much as the working spouse is making - net pay zero.

T-38 vs C-5 vs 11F...... ever hear of a phrase that goes... "The needs of the AF"?  You think you're the first guy to get put into a MWS that wasn't his first choice?  You think you'd be seeing your kid more flying a C-5 around the planet?

If you're spending most of your time in a fighter worrying about that laundry list you have there, you need to ground yourself.  You clearly lack the confidence in your abilities to do that job effectively.  Getting violated...🙄  GMAFB.

Going to war/participating in contingency ops has been part of life in the USAF since 1990.  Once again, it appears you chose poorly.  Having regard for "life outside the military" is for when you're no longer in the military.  Welcome to reality - either change your goals to match it or look into changing your AFSC before you do kill yourself or someone else.  Guard or reserves isn't the solution to your problem.

[Kenny Powers]

All my best stories, amazing experiences, and life long memories are from when I was AD or ANG deployed/TDY. Those are also the hardest times because you're away from family.

All the stories my wife and I talk about are from when we were active duty and we've seen it all. AD Enlisted, ANG Enlisted, civilian with great careers, now ANG pilot who's considering going AD. All in all over 15 years of service in some form or another. We never say "Hey, remember that time we all went out with that civilian company you used to work for?" Hell, I could barely get the guys on my team to go do a happy hour on Friday kind of thing, and I was paying with the company card! I also remember literally getting so bored at times at work that I got tired of searching the internet.

Being in the military is tough, being a fighter pilot makes it even more tough. It's difficult, it's dangerous, and you're busy all the damn time. It's also not forever. I will eventually move on, so will everyone else. But flying through the AOR in the middle of the night and getting re-rolled to go drop bombs on ISIS to support the guys on the ground makes it all worth it.

[icohftb]

5 hours ago, euser said:

I never claim for it to be all the Air Force’s fault. I have more important priorities outside the Air Force. I don’t think flying military aircraft is worth putting my family through hell, working so much the kid barely knows you, only being able to live in shitty locations where your spouse struggles to find a professional career of their own, and having absolutely no control of your life. When I have the 10 seconds every other flight that I’m not stressed about getting flight violated, killing someone, killing myself, or being bad at my job it can be enjoyable. My bitterness really started when I was forced 38’s under the guise of universal assignability and that I’ll still be able to get a C-5, and then dropped an 11F when the only thing lower was AFSOC airframes. Yes, I had AWACS above all fighters. Our T-1s even dropped a C-5. I understand a lot of people would give a lot to be an 11F, but I’m also in a community where all they do is shit on other MWSs that people work hard for because it doesn’t have an afterburner or pull 9G’s. Most of the guys my age care about nothing but killing people and going to war with no regard for life outside the military, it’s just not my goals. I could at least mitigate some family stressors if I was guard/reserve. On that note, I still do my job well whether I like it or not, but it is very draining. I still don’t have a desire to fly for the airlines though. 

Im assuming you're already in the CAF? You don't have too much to worry about though because with that attitude the community will find a way out for you...

 

That being said 1 tour in ops then going to a white jet might best suit your goals and really isn't a bad deal especially for qol.

[Guest]

.”

“Speeding on base ticket? SF guy just wishes he was a pilot and taking it out on me.”

“Yearly FOD walk on a down day? Don’t they know I’m a f-ing pilot...let’s hide in the bar and drink coffee with booze instead at 8am.”
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[euser]

3 minutes ago, icohftb said:

Im assuming you're already in the CAF? You don't have too much to worry about though because with that attitude the community will find a way out for you...

 

That being said 1 tour in ops then going to a white jet might best suit your goals and really isn't a bad deal especially for qol.

I don’t bring a negative attitude to work. I always try to do my job but the best I can regardless of how I feel towards it. I have been enjoying it more the longer I’ve been distanced from AETC. I’m coming off more negative about it than I actually am because I’m just bitching on the internet. I love the guys I work with. 

I have thought about that, as well as a 38 or T-6 instructor. I’ll see how I feel towards the end of this ops tour. Everything was just much different than my initial expectation going in. I feel like educating people about the real Air Force is something AETC is very bad with. I had no idea what UPT or the CAF would be like when I was picked up for a pilot slot. 

[BashiChuni]

6 hours ago, euser said:

I never claim for it to be all the Air Force’s fault. I have more important priorities outside the Air Force. I don’t think flying military aircraft is worth putting my family through hell, working so much the kid barely knows you, only being able to live in shitty locations where your spouse struggles to find a professional career of their own, and having absolutely no control of your life. When I have the 10 seconds every other flight that I’m not stressed about getting flight violated, killing someone, killing myself, or being bad at my job it can be enjoyable. My bitterness really started when I was forced 38’s under the guise of universal assignability and that I’ll still be able to get a C-5, and then dropped an 11F when the only thing lower was AFSOC airframes. Yes, I had AWACS above all fighters. Our T-1s even dropped a C-5. I understand a lot of people would give a lot to be an 11F, but I’m also in a community where all they do is shit on other MWSs that people work hard for because it doesn’t have an afterburner or pull 9G’s. Most of the guys my age care about nothing but killing people and going to war with no regard for life outside the military, it’s just not my goals. I could at least mitigate some family stressors if I was guard/reserve. On that note, I still do my job well whether I like it or not, but it is very draining. I still don’t have a desire to fly for the airlines though. 

You assigned last year? So you’re new. Probably never deployed. 

Hmm. Coming off a little too salty for your own good. Gotta earn your stripes before you start talking about “putting your family thru hell”

lots of guys have had it and continue to have it much worse than your 1 year MWS lyfe. Perspective. Get some. 

[raimius]

Flying helicopters is freaking fun...when you get to do it.  
I'm seeing a few of the 1st assignment guys already planning an exit...kind of sad, but they are seeing the issues with the AF, and now the airlines are actually poaching helo dudes.

[Danger41]

12 hours ago, euser said:

I never claim for it to be all the Air Force’s fault. I have more important priorities outside the Air Force. I don’t think flying military aircraft is worth putting my family through hell, working so much the kid barely knows you, only being able to live in shitty locations where your spouse struggles to find a professional career of their own, and having absolutely no control of your life. When I have the 10 seconds every other flight that I’m not stressed about getting flight violated, killing someone, killing myself, or being bad at my job it can be enjoyable. My bitterness really started when I was forced 38’s under the guise of universal assignability and that I’ll still be able to get a C-5, and then dropped an 11F when the only thing lower was AFSOC airframes. Yes, I had AWACS above all fighters. Our T-1s even dropped a C-5. I understand a lot of people would give a lot to be an 11F, but I’m also in a community where all they do is shit on other MWSs that people work hard for because it doesn’t have an afterburner or pull 9G’s. Most of the guys my age care about nothing but killing people and going to war with no regard for life outside the military, it’s just not my goals. I could at least mitigate some family stressors if I was guard/reserve. On that note, I still do my job well whether I like it or not, but it is very draining. I still don’t have a desire to fly for the airlines though. 

So I’m reading into your post quite a bit and I think the root cause of where a lot of your unhappiness is coming from is your wife’s discontent at the lack of career opportunity coupled with the young kid in a place where you have no control of your life. I would recommend you talk with a chaplain or use military one source for some free counseling to figure out what’s really going on and find a way forward. I’ve seen plenty of guys (“asking for a friend”) where their wife is miserable at home and makes them miserable and project that misery on the AF. Given your youth, I think it may be more of this than actually being jaded at the injustices of the AF. YMMV.

[hindsight2020]

9 hours ago, JeremiahWeed said:

  How about your spouse worry less about her professional career and more about raising your kids.  One less group of latchkey kids in daycare which ends up costing just as much as the working spouse is making - net pay zero.

 

Jesus Christ....

 

[IDALPHA]

3 hours ago, hindsight2020 said:

Jesus Christ....

 

“2”

[gearhog]

Old guys: "The AF sucks. I'm leaving."

New guy: "Yes, it does. I want out."

Old guys: "WTF? Snowflake! ! You're going to get yourself or someone else killed! Be positive! It's all worth it! Best job ever! Your marriage is in trouble! Seek counseling!"

euser,

Your experience is your experience. If you believe you are having a poor experience in the AF, then you actually are having a poor experience. Your grievances aren't anything new or unique, so why are you being blamed for them? As the new guy, you need to realize anything you post here is not a contribution for selfless intellectual discussion, but an opportunity for a few others to practice self-righteousness and judgement, but not empathy. While there are many good discussions here, just be aware that you're currently involved in one where your post is being used to feed an addiction cycle of empowerment among some of the regulars.

Remember that despite what appears to be "advice", the goal here is to make you respond indignantly and emotionally, not help you.

The best advice you'll ever get on this website is never, ever, come here expecting to have a serious and honest exchange, about anything. This forum is only a game. Pot stir - Complete. 😄

Edited September 23, 2018 by torqued

[pawnman]

17 hours ago, JeremiahWeed said:

  How about your spouse worry less about her professional career and more about raising your kids.  One less group of latchkey kids in daycare which ends up costing just as much as the working spouse is making - net pay zero.

Life pretty cozy back there in 1965?  Because we're living in 2018.

[di1630]

Yeah but let’s get real:

-If you aren’t happy flying a F-16, it is doubtful you’d be happy in a C-5 or anything else.

-If your wife is unhappy at a fighter base with the ton of support that comes with it, she’d doubtfully be happy at a C-5 base or anywhere else.

-Your life as a fighter guy is more stable than a heavy guy. If you want stability, go teach at UPT...BUT, pretty much all those bases are worse than any fighter or C-5 base or anywhere else...well maybe AFSOC.

Two life tips:

first, I’d plan for your exit from the fighter community and or the usaf ASAP if you and your family are miserable. It will only get worse of you aren’t enjoying it when it’s new.

Second, and I hate to be saying this but if you are having marital frustrations now, really evaluate things. Like the USAF, it’s only going to get worse if you aren’t enjoying it when it’s new.

You can blame location, jet, schedule etc for your woes and always be waiting for a greener pasture with work/family balance, but I’ve found that people who enjoy the USAF and marriage are the types who will make the best of it no matter what the circumstances.

Dr Phil out.






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[Buddy Spike]

Step 1:  Start out wide eyed and bushy tailed. Flying fighters/heavies/helos is the best thing you've ever done.

Step 2: Try to change the world.

Step 3: Get struck down for Step 2. Become disillusioned as the machine attempts to swallow you whole. (See: Monkey/Cage theory)

Step 4: Find a Guard/Reserve Unit and GTFO.

Step 5: Get hired by the airlines.  Make a lot of money.

Step 6: Military flying becomes fun again because you're suddenly kevlar and a true volunteer. You don't care about changing the world and the feeling from Step 1 returns. 

Step 7: ???

Step 8: Profit.

 

 

[Homestar]

On 9/21/2018 at 9:45 PM, euser said:

If I could trade in my wings to break this obligation I would. 

Ok now that is just straight up BS

[Hopefulflyer389]

48 minutes ago, Buddy Spike said:

Step 1:  Start out wide eyed and bushy tailed. Flying fighters/heavies/helos is the best thing you've ever done.

Step 2: Try to change the world.

Step 3: Get struck down for Step 2. Become disillusioned as the machine attempts to swallow you whole. (See: Monkey/Cage theory)

Step 4: Find a Guard/Reserve Unit and GTFO.

Step 5: Get hired by the airlines.  Make a lot of money.

Step 6: Military flying becomes fun again because you're suddenly kevlar and a true volunteer. You don't care about changing the world and the feeling from Step 1 returns. 

Step 7: ???

Step 8: Profit.

 

 

Step 6 sounds great, but you forgot step 9...

[Buddy Spike]

1 minute ago, Hopefulflyer389 said:

Step 6 sounds great, but you forgot step 9...

Give half your stuff to your first ex-wife?

[DirkDiggler]

11 hours ago, hindsight2020 said:

Jesus Christ....

 

Three

[HuggyU2]

6 hours ago, Buddy Spike said:

Step 7: ???

Step 7:  you now have the money to get serious about other forms of recreational aviation.  Go to Oshkosh... go to the Reno Races and roam through the pits... find the passion for cool aviation that has waned.  Go find something fun to do at your local airport.  

[Buddy Spike]

1 hour ago, HuggyU2 said:

Step 7:  you now have the money to get serious about other forms of recreational aviation.  Go to Oshkosh... go to the Reno Races and roam through the pits... find the passion for cool aviation that has waned.  Go find something fun to do at your local airport.  

[HU&W]

On 9/21/2018 at 9:45 PM, euser said:

 If I could trade in my wings to break this obligation I would. 

You can. 

1.  Request an FEB under AFI11-401, para 4.3.7.3. 

2.  Request a VILO under para 4.4.6.

3.  Hope for separation under 4.4.6.2, with the understanding that you may also be assigned to an nonflying job.