Air Force awards contract for new helicopters to guard nukes MH-139

[MC5Wes]

Air Force awards $2.4B contract for new helicopters to guard nukes

 

https://www.cnn.com/2018/09/24/politics/air-force-helicopter-contract-nukes/index.html?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+rss%2Fcnn_topstories+%28RSS%3A+CNN+-+Top+Stories%29

 

 

 

[Champ Kind]

27 minutes ago, MC5Wes said:

From the article: 

"The first delivery of an operational helicopter is expected in Fiscal Year 2021 according to the Air Force."

...right...

[LiquidSky]

Will they also be replacing the birds at Rucker, Andrews, Yokota, etc? 

I was able to find this article but even that isn't super clear if it's all UH-1s and TH-1s, only the nuke ones, or some of this some of that.  

 

[Breckey]

Only the UH-1Ns. AFGSC is getting the first ones but eventually all of them will be replaced. Yokota is still up in the air last report I saw.

[Majestik Møøse]

Other than spreading the wealth among contractors, is there any reason they just didn’t buy some Lakotas?

[Breckey]

6 minutes ago, Majestik Møøse said:

Other than spreading the wealth among contractors, is there any reason they just didn’t buy some Lakotas?

Lakota doesn't have the speed, endurance, or payload required. Requirement was to carry 9 troops for 3.0 hours with X speed. The Lakota doesn't even perform the FLAT IRON mission at Rucker well (it can't pick up a TH-1 crew in one lift), much less then COOP/COG/Nuke mission.

[raimius]

Ha, the Lakota can't always lift 3 passengers from tight LZs.  Whoever thought it would be good for FLAT IRON and some of the multi-pax missions elsewhere...I don't know how they got conned to badly...

I don't know if the MH-139 is the best platform for the mission, but it is more capable than the N model (even though flying the classic is fun).

...now I'm just wondering what will happen with the inevitable protests.

 

[SPAWNmaster]

Both SK and Sierra were pretty steeply undercut and SK already made a protest. I'm not convinced there will be another one.

I do think the 139 is a great tool for the job and significant boost in capability over the N models. Dual FADECs, modern glass, systems integration (CDU/FMS/VXP/IVHMS type technology but newer). All 90's era production is an entirely new generation ahead of the 60 and at least two over the Huey. Also a good pedigree, over 1000 ships produced and Boeing+Philly supply chain. I think the automation will save lots of greenback on human factors and maintenance upkeep.

My hangup is on the addition of the mission equipment. Just look at how much of a pig the 60 is loaded up and the fact we fly it 6,000lbs overgross into OBS. Can the 139 hold up and support the mission without all the ancillary issues related over time remains to be seen.

Looks like a great deal for the AFGS community.

[Sua Sponte]

On 9/24/2018 at 5:54 PM, Champ Kind said:

...right...

Yeah, how’s that KC-46 coming along 😂

[uhhello]

1 hour ago, SPAWNmaster said:

Both SK and Sierra were pretty steeply undercut and SK already made a protest. I'm not convinced there will be another one.

I do think the 139 is a great tool for the job and significant boost in capability over the N models. Dual FADECs, modern glass, systems integration (CDU/FMS/VXP/IVHMS type technology but newer). All 90's era production is an entirely new generation ahead of the 60 and at least two over the Huey. Also a good pedigree, over 1000 ships produced and Boeing+Philly supply chain. I think the automation will save lots of greenback on human factors and maintenance upkeep.

My hangup is on the addition of the mission equipment. Just look at how much of a pig the 60 is loaded up and the fact we fly it 6,000lbs overgross into OBS. Can the 139 hold up and support the mission without all the ancillary issues related over time remains to be seen.

Looks like a great deal for the AFGS community.

What mission equipment would it need?  With current tech being used I can't see anything more than a couple thousand pounds at most.  

[SPAWNmaster]

2 hours ago, uhhello said:

What mission equipment would it need?  With current tech being used I can't see anything more than a couple thousand pounds at most.  

They are adding FLIR, hoist and 2 x M240's for one thing. I don't know what other sensors or defensive systems will be added on top but you can imagine the regular stock of sensors. Plus the wiring, the mounts, the ammo, etc. All this eats into useful load, but more importantly alters the CG. The fact the bid was accepted means obviously someone thought they will pull it off but we know how things worked out in 60 land with all the add-on afterthoughts and years of upgrades (wiring that gets added not replaced) so I thought it was worth mentioning.

[Adam H]

I’m about halfway through T6s and was considering putting helos as my top choice, but I just don’t know enough to be sure about it. I’m curious about lifestyle, deployment cycle, etc....anybody currently at Fort Rucker for training or new to the helo community that could give me some info?

[Breckey]

1 hour ago, SPAWNmaster said:

They are adding FLIR, hoist and 2 x M240's for one thing. I don't know what other sensors or defensive systems will be added on top but you can imagine the regular stock of sensors. Plus the wiring, the mounts, the ammo, etc. All this eats into useful load, but more importantly alters the CG. The fact the bid was accepted means obviously someone thought they will pull it off but we know how things worked out in 60 land with all the add-on afterthoughts and years of upgrades (wiring that gets added not replaced) so I thought it was worth mentioning.

From their promotional aircraft had the AAR-47s and two do-all flare buckets already installed. There is a high likelihood of moving to a .50 cal or a minigun with external ammunition handling. The pintle posts are already in the "prototype" promotional bird. FLIRs nowadays are pretty light and the Italians have already proven a lot of the avionics integration with their HH-139

Here is their promotional "prototype" at the Heli-Expo

Again a lot of the integration work has seemingly already been done.

[LiquidSky]

1 hour ago, Adam H said:

I’m about halfway through T6s and was considering putting helos as my top choice, but I just don’t know enough to be sure about it. I’m curious about lifestyle, deployment cycle, etc....anybody currently at Fort Rucker for training or new to the helo community that could give me some info?

To stay on topic here go to this thread and ask further questions there. Info about the UH-1 and 60s in there. It's a goldmine for upt studs, share it with your class. 

[uhhello]

3 hours ago, SPAWNmaster said:

They are adding FLIR, hoist and 2 x M240's for one thing. I don't know what other sensors or defensive systems will be added on top but you can imagine the regular stock of sensors. Plus the wiring, the mounts, the ammo, etc. All this eats into useful load, but more importantly alters the CG. The fact the bid was accepted means obviously someone thought they will pull it off but we know how things worked out in 60 land with all the add-on afterthoughts and years of upgrades (wiring that gets added not replaced) so I thought it was worth mentioning.

No I get it but with newer tech and not frankensteined shit that we have in the 60, I think they'll be alright.  At least off the bat...if they ever get it fielded.  

[Breckey]

The HH-60W is not as frankensteined yet it's still going to be running into max-GW issues. Just tell GA that there are only two seats for them so they only get a 2-man team /sarc

[Marco]

I wanna see Sunburst countermeasures and a Turbo Boost button on it. 😎  

[uhhello]

8 hours ago, Breckey said:

The HH-60W is not as frankensteined yet it's still going to be running into max-GW issues. Just tell GA that there are only two seats for them so they only get a 2-man team /sarc

Whos GA? Haven't seen those guys in about a year on our birds.  

[Breckey]

They're all going to SOCOM where they will tell ODA that they need to stay in a 6 man team to be mission effective.

[uhhello]

1 hour ago, Breckey said:

They're all going to SOCOM where they will tell ODA that they need to stay in a 6 man team to be mission effective.

Ha.  Hilarious but mostly true.  I hate dogging on them because there are some really good dudes, even on the rescue side who get it and just want to do the best at their mission.  Then there are the rest who won't fit in too well to the AFSOC side I think.

[stract]

I think this is going to end up being a poor decision on USAF's part.  There was an opportunity to leverage supply lines, training, and the ability to shift aircrew between peacetime and wartime missions, but no, had to go with an airframe no one in the US mil has...  Seems like the Us could have filled the niche nicely, already having gone through a shakedown over the last several years with the unit that has them.

[Breckey]

Having the bid be awarded almost $2 billion below the AFs estimated cost probably had something to do with it. Additionally you know the AF, they would have required a full transition syllabus for the W to U incurring a 3-year ADSC rather than a differences training.

[norskman]

Possibly good news for 11Hs out there interested in flying opportunities. Due to the MAF sorting out required number of 11Ms for the KC-46, the word on the street is that there will be a heavier bill to pay for the 11H community in T-6s. This makes sense to build basic airmanship for the community considering current manning. Should have been done a long time ago. 

Edited October 3, 2018 by norskman

[jazzdude]

Possibly good news for 11Hs out there interested in flying opportunities. Due to the MAF sorting out required number of 11Ms for the KC-46, the word on the street is that there will be a heavier bill to pay for the 11H community in T-6s. This makes sense to build basic airmanship for the community considering current manning. Should have been done a long time ago. 

Easy 1000 hours TPIC, so now our helo bubbas can transition easier to the airlines if they want...

Sent from my SM-N920V using Tapatalk

[Breckey]

That'll be good as you have both the HH-60 and the UH-1 both transitioning to a new aircraft.