Going ANG/Res after passed over twice for Lt Col in AD

[Tommy]

I’m a MAF guy and my goal is to get an AD retirement at this point and just looking for opinions on what I should do. Have a few questions as well if you have time  

Does getting passed over twice for Lt Col affect me geting in the guard/reserves?

Is it easier to get an AGR position in the guard or reserves, or at certain bases, etc?

Is it worth the hassle to rush a unit, trough/bum, then be an ART with the hopes of getting an AGR position or should I just stay AD and ride out the next 5 years  

Anyone know anyone who got out after being passed over twice and regret it and/or wasn’t able to get a 20 year retirement that wanted it. 

Thanks!

Edited October 22, 2018 by Lifer

[brabus]

Remember you don't have to do the next 5 years back to back...another option is get the airline apps going, grab a TR job/fly for airline X for a bit, then go on 5 years orders to finish out your 20 while airline seniority climbs. It probably will be easier to grab a TR job than an AGR right out the gate, but every unit is different.  Fuck ART, no point in doing that since you already know AD retirement and GTFO of the AF is your goal.

[SFG]

I talked to a few reserve guys (all in the same unit) and they made it very clear to me that they believed getting an active duty retirement in the guard or the reserves was a myth. They said the unit and the AF would never allow it. Something about not letting you enter sanctuary; not giving you active orders if it puts you in your last two years prior to 20.

Thoughts? That advice is what has kept me in, but maybe it’s dated now, because this conversation keeps coming up.

[Duck]

How soon can the Guard put you up for O-5 when you have been twice passed over on AD? I heard as long as you don’t have a break in service, and you have the TIG and appropriate PME, they can put you up immediately. True?

[herkbum]

I talked to a few reserve guys (all in the same unit) and they made it very clear to me that they believed getting an active duty retirement in the guard or the reserves was a myth. They said the unit and the AF would never allow it. Something about not letting you enter sanctuary; not giving you active orders if it puts you in your last two years prior to 20.
Thoughts? That advice is what has kept me in, but maybe it’s dated now, because this conversation keeps coming up.

A lot depends on the unit. My old wing, where I was a member for over 26 years, never had a DSG that I know of retire with an AD retirement. Other wings in the state have. Talked to FSS at my new wing last week and they had done 2 in the past few years.

It all depends on the mission. Old wing is now RPAs and they have to adapt to the changes. I know someone that will soon press-to-test. Wish him the best and he should, without a doubt, receive it since he has earned it. I also know of other states where DSGs have gotten AD retirements.



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[Disco_Nav963]

One thing you should understand is they'll make you sign a sanctuary waiver to get orders, but that doesn't stop you from getting an AD retirement... It just stops you from invoking sanctuary to stay on orders for the purposes of getting an AD retirement. At least in my neck of the woods, there is always someone with MPA days and an unfilled need for dudes.

[POKESC17]

I talked to a few reserve guys (all in the same unit) and they made it very clear to me that they believed getting an active duty retirement in the guard or the reserves was a myth. They said the unit and the AF would never allow it. Something about not letting you enter sanctuary; not giving you active orders if it puts you in your last two years prior to 20.

Thoughts? That advice is what has kept me in, but maybe it’s dated now, because this conversation keeps coming up.

Highly depends on the unit. I’m going to walk away with an AD retirement as are many others in my unit. Some through AGR, some through ADOS, some just by troughing on MPA days and deployments. Keep in mind we are all over the 15 year mark. How long will that last? Who knows.

[matmacwc]

7 hours ago, Klepto said:

I talked to a few reserve guys (all in the same unit) and they made it very clear to me that they believed getting an active duty retirement in the guard or the reserves was a myth. They said the unit and the AF would never allow it. Something about not letting you enter sanctuary; not giving you active orders if it puts you in your last two years prior to 20.

Thoughts? That advice is what has kept me in, but maybe it’s dated now, because this conversation keeps coming up.

You were not told the truth.

[Guardian]

How soon can the Guard put you up for O-5 when you have been twice passed over on AD? I heard as long as you don’t have a break in service, and you have the TIG and appropriate PME, they can put you up immediately. True?

True except you don’t have to have the PME done.

[Duck]

True except you don’t have to have the PME done.

How long does it take to get the whole thing processed and get the promotion order?

[Chida]

You’ll meet the next reserve or guard promotion board as long as there’s no break in service. You can get on Mypers to see the schedule of boards.


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[Guardian]

How long does it take to get the whole thing processed and get the promotion order?

Not sure man. Sorry.

[VigilanteNav]

On 10/23/2018 at 1:40 PM, Duck said:

How long does it take to get the whole thing processed and get the promotion order?

In the ANG, it's about a six month timeframe from when the unit submits the paperwork to getting the order.  It's a byzantine process called Federal Recognition (Fed Rec) and I'm in no way qualified to explain it here.  I've just watched the process unfold from the unit perspective enough times to know what the limfac is and the rough timeline.  So, my story on a guard promotion is that I got off active duty with only four years TIG as a Capt.  When I joined the Guard unit, they asked how much TIG I had and then without batting an eye told me they were submitting my promo paperwork.  That was in November and I saw the promo order in April or May if I remember correctly.  I also know a reservist who was passed over for O-5 on active duty and he's not only an O-5 now but also a squadron CC and could make O-6.   Now, I would say that it will be best to find a unit that is under manned in your crew position.  That will make the promo chances better as well as the opportunities for orders and a possible AGR tour.  

[Duck]

The Personnel chief here is telling me I have to have a year minimum in the unit before they can put me up for promotion. She says they have to have one Guard OPR to put me up for promotion. Does that check or is she just making stuff up?


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[Duck]

The Personnel chief here is telling me I have to have a year minimum in the unit before they can put me up for promotion. She says they have to have one Guard OPR to put me up for promotion. Does that check or is she just making stuff up?


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[ThreeHoler]

Matches the AFRC. Don’t know about the OPR thing but a friend of mine only had 11 months in the AFRC so he was essentially deferred a year to be promoted to O-5.


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[Chida]

Might happen as a matter of course, but not a stated requirement.


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[Van1]

I was twice passed over to O-5 in Jun 2011 and was given a check for $130k and was told to GTFO of the AD in Nov 2011.  Had no problem swearing into the NYANG the very next day in Dec 2011.  In Feb 2012 my unit told me that I was going up to a mandatory ROPMA board in Jun 2012 since I would have 7 years TIG for the period the board covered.  Package went to the board with no Guard OPRs in it.  Got the news in Jul 2012 that I was selected for 0-5 and pinned on Apr 2013 (when I actually hit 7 years TIG).  

Edited February 22, 2019 by Van1

[Chida]

If you had a break in service between regular and ARC, then you have to put in a year with ARC before being eligible to meet a promotion board. The reg states that upon boarding you must have had at least 1 yr of continuous service.


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[Guardian]

The Personnel chief here is telling me I have to have a year minimum in the unit before they can put me up for promotion. She says they have to have one Guard OPR to put me up for promotion. Does that check or is she just making stuff up?


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I would ask for the reg. Never heard of that. In fact my unit started working on my Maj package prior to even gaining me.

[VigilanteNav]

Not true on the must have one ANG OPR to get promoted.  I shared my story of my O-4 promo earlier.  A few more details on that...at first, the FSS button pusher at the wing said that my last OPR from AD was not sufficient as it didn't say "ready for increased responsibilities" in the last line.  Fortunately, a well placed call to the Guard Bureau A-1 office overruled the FSS limfac and told them to go ahead and submit my package.  A couple or six short months later, boom, I was an O-4.  Long story short, that you can't get promoted in the Guard without a Guard OPR is erroneous and likely a localism that has prevailed a certain places.  Hopefully, your squadron leadership would be willing to check in with Guard Bureau and get the truth.  Good Luck! 

Edited March 3, 2019 by VigilanteNav

[SaltyDawg]

There are quite a few ANG flying squadrons that will not even consider hiring anyone who has been deferred twice for promotion.  

[AirGuardianC141747]

While there are many units that will not consider a twice passed over individual, there have been cases of at least one unit (probably a few more) that have. Circumstances during ones career may impede an individuals ability to promote. Size of unit/competition, RIF, unit mission, OPRs not having been properly filled/routed/or even a buttdart Commander, but perhaps timing maybe the culprit. We heavily scrutinized an individual and despite the pass overs (he even was given an end date/leave the military in 6 months) we hired him having fully vetted the historical data. We fortunately found the right person for the right niche job based upon their training, knowledge and experience which has paid dividends for our unit and continues. It is fairly obvious most of the time when an individual has failed to promote because they are not meeting or exceeding standards. Your unit must do the leg work if they are so inclined. Granted, if there are a plethora of highly qualified candidates, then timing will not be in your favor...

[Ryder1587]

I’m transferring to the Reserves soon.  One of my friends in the Reserves said they aren’t able to meet the Lt Col board until 16 years in service where normally active duty is around 14 years. Is that true where I have to wait another 3-4 years assuming I have no break in service ?

[Chida]

The normal process is that you will meet a board prior to 7 yrs TIG to enable you to pin on at 7 yrs TIG. You’ll need to download the PDSM from Mypers on recent boards and infer from that what board you will meet as there are cut off dates for various items.