Concealed Carry

[LICECUB]

Currently I am waiting to go to OTS and just a little confused about how a CCW works in the military as well as for my civilian spouse. Do I keep my current state of residency and not have to register for a new one moving to different states? Or do I have to register it at every state that I move to? Also how it works having one on base. Any help is much appreciated, thanks! 

[HossHarris]

On base is wing/cc dependent. It’s getting better, but is not good. 

State depends on the state you’re physically in and your state of residence. 

Not much info ... but you have bigger fish to fry in the short term. 

[pawnman]

My base lets you store a gun locked in your car, unloaded and out of sight (so, not carrying it around the base, but in a position to carry it immediately outside the gates as desired).

[brabus]

For CCW independent of on-base carry policy, you do not have to change residency (or CCW permit) when you move. However, you must alert the authority who issued your CCW of your new address within 30 days of moving (federal law). Florida and Colorado can be updated online. I’m guessing most states offer that option nowadays. You can renew your CCW in your state of residence as well, regardless of where your current home address is. 

[Stoker]

1 hour ago, pawnman said:

My base lets you store a gun locked in your car, unloaded and out of sight (so, not carrying it around the base, but in a position to carry it immediately outside the gates as desired).

I always wonder if it isn't awkward unloading and storing (or loading and donning) a firearm in public. Seems like not something I'd want to be doing out of my trunk right outside the base gate.

[pawnman]

17 hours ago, Stoker said:

I always wonder if it isn't awkward unloading and storing (or loading and donning) a firearm in public. Seems like not something I'd want to be doing out of my trunk right outside the base gate.

I'm not a gun owner, so I haven't had to deal with it...but my understanding is that you can carry on base, then you leave it in the vehicle once you get to your squadron.  There's definitely not a line of people at the gates disarming themselves every morning.

Edited November 28, 2018 by pawnman

[KWings06j]

29 minutes ago, pawnman said:

I'm not a gun owner, so I have had to deal with it...but my understanding is that you can carry on base, then you leave it in the vehicle once you get to your squadron.  There's definitely not a line of people at the gates disarming themselves every morning.

Not at my base. You must have it completely unloaded and in a locked compartment by the time you get to the gate. 

[brabus]

Makes sense, wouldn’t want the gun to explode during the day in your locked case, thus causing what would likely be the largest MASCAL event since Hiroshima. Idiots. 

[KWings06j]

Also makes it so you can't just remove the holster and drop the whole thing in the case. You have to actually drop the mag and rack the slide because manipulating your firearm while in gate traffic is a brilliant idea. 

Edited November 28, 2018 by KWings06j

[LICECUB]

14 hours ago, brabus said:

For CCW independent of on-base carry policy, you do not have to change residency (or CCW permit) when you move. However, you must alert the authority who issued your CCW of your new address within 30 days of moving (federal law). Florida and Colorado can be updated online. I’m guessing most states offer that option nowadays. You can renew your CCW in your state of residence as well, regardless of where your current home address is. 

So I will be keeping my current state of residence my entire military career, unless I choose to change it? Updating my current home address will be no big deal but sounds like storing it getting on and leaving base is the biggest issue. 

[brabus]

Correct, you can keep your residency where you have it as long as your on active orders, or you can choose to change it however often you want as you move to different states.  Carry on base is only allowed at some bases, and clearly the rules are different at each.

[viper154]

10 hours ago, LICECUB said:

So I will be keeping my current state of residence my entire military career, unless I choose to change it? Updating my current home address will be no big deal but sounds like storing it getting on and leaving base is the biggest issue. 

That’s one of the beautiful things of mil serivice. You can keep your state of residence or change as required. Do your research into your states income tax code and the states you are stationed in. You can possiably avoid paying state income tax as filing as a non resident, or changing your residency to the state you are living in if it does not have a income tax, like TX, Fl, AZ, and some others. I would think this would have no effect on your CC permit, but the laws are different in every state. Every base also has different refs on CC, so check your local base regs. FYSA Every base reg I have seen requires you to leave your weapon in your vehicle if you are allowed to bring it on base. 

[Bojangles]

Semi-related question. So just about everything goes off of your home of residence. I've been told before that the background check for buying a weapon uses the state where you are stationed and not the state for home of residence. Essentially I was denied buying a weapon while on leave in my state of my home of residence because they said the ATF (or whoever) would consider my home of residence as an out of state purchase since i actually reside in a different state. That may have came off really confusing but anyone had a similar experience?

[Warrior]

Read the instructions for the 4473. You can buy guns essentially as a resident of 2 states-your home if record and where you’re stationed.

Most gun store clerks are idiots. Or their company has more restrictive policies (Dicks).

[viper154]

15 hours ago, Bojangles said:

Semi-related question. So just about everything goes off of your home of residence. I've been told before that the background check for buying a weapon uses the state where you are stationed and not the state for home of residence. Essentially I was denied buying a weapon while on leave in my state of my home of residence because they said the ATF (or whoever) would consider my home of residence as an out of state purchase since i actually reside in a different state. That may have came off really confusing but anyone had a similar experience?

You certainly can buy firearms in both states. Bring your orders if you are in your state of duty. Only gotcha is the firearms laws in different states. You can buy a lot of things in most states that are very illegal in places like NY and Cali. 

[M2]

For the state you are stationed in, you will have to check on the reciprocity of it with the state your concealed handgun licensed was issued with.  Unlike your driver's license, it is not automatic.  There are many websites that keep current of such agreements, such as:

https://www.usacarry.com/concealed_carry_permit_reciprocity_maps.html

As for carrying on base, it is dependent on the base commander's policy.  Federal law does not prohibit having a personally-owned firearm on military bases, only in Federal facilities (18 U.S. Code § 930), but some service policies (such as AR 190-14) restrict, regulate and/or limit it.  Know before you go.

But as stated, purchasing firearms in your state is allowed with your PCS orders.

[HossHarris]

2 hours ago, M2 said:

For the state you are stationed in, you will have to check on the reciprocity of it with the state your concealed handgun licensed was issued with.  Unlike your driver's license, it is not automatic.  There are many websites that keep current of such agreements, such as:

https://www.usacarry.com/concealed_carry_permit_reciprocity_maps.html

As for carrying on base, it is dependent on the base commander's policy.  Federal law does not prohibit having a personally-owned firearm on military bases, only in Federal facilities (18 U.S. Code § 930), but some service policies (such as AR 190-14) restrict, regulate and/or limit it.  Know before you go.

But as stated, purchasing firearms in your state is allowed with your PCS orders.

Handgunlaw.us is useful as well

[Tank]

I wish all bases in a similar area would coordinate their base rules.  

Hurlburt and Eglin/Duke have differing rules set forth.  You can carry on Hurlburt but not Eglin/Duke.  

Makes it really difficult if you must travel between them all during your duty day.  

[Napoleon_Tanerite]

It's kind of a gray area.  CCW laws are written more towards either you being a "state resident" or a "out of state" resident.  As a military member you're kind of neither.  For my career I was a FL resident, but I never once laid my head to rest in FL (aside from TDY) in FL; however, I owned property in FL, maintained a FL address, and "paid taxes" in FL.  As a result I carried with a FL resident permit, regardless of where I was stationed at.

I'm no lawyer, so don't take this any kind of legal advice, BUT I would say that this is one of those gray areas that you can exploit.  I would advise you to get a "resident" permit in the state that is the most advantageous to you.  You can make a case either way for a resident permit in either your home of record state, or whatever state your're stationed in.  I would base the decision on whichever permit has the greatest reciprocity with other states.  So if you're an IL resident for example I'd advise getting an IL permit since it's good in IL as well as a LOT of other states; however, IL doesn't recognize any other state's permit.  That's just one example, it's going to take a bit of homework on your part to figure out what works best for you.

EDIT:  Also, I would suggest getting a passport card and using that as your primary source of ID, especially if your CCW resident permit is different from your drivers license state, and keep a set of orders on hand (glove box) as well.

When you really boil it down to a practical sense, it doesn't matter.  The key word here is CONCEALED, so if you do it right, nobody knows you are armed anyway and if you are placed in the unfortunate circumstance where you need to reveal yourself as armed nobody will care what state your permit (if you have one) is in.  The only point that becomes a problem is in states that have a "duty to inform".

Edit 2:  I always assume that whatever state I'm in is a "duty to inform" state.  Where this comes into play is traffic stops.  In practice if I'm pulled over and I'm armed (pretty much always) I start the traffic stop with both hands either out the window or on the wheel and start the interaction with "Sir, for everyone's safety I want to you to know that I am lawfully armed and my weapon is located ____".  Usually this results in the cops wanting to shoot the shit about what kind of gun I have, perhaps some good natured shit slinging about brand preference, and a warning regarding the traffic violation.

Edited December 3, 2018 by Napoleon_Tanerite

[rustic313]

TLDR:  Talk to an attorney, follow state law where you are stationed, get a CCW with good reciprocity, and don't bring guns on base unless you've done your homework (ask SFS/S2 for the base AFI supplement).

1)  SOURCES OF ADVICE.  Nobody can give you good DEFINITIVE advice on this topic other than an attorney licensed in the appropriate state.  Don't ask cops, your buddy, security forces, or the internets.  Especially if you're going to a blue state with lots of gun control, there is a lot of risk.  A JAG is the next best, but if they're not licensed in the state or familiar with this area of law be ready for disappointment too. 

You will also want to do your own research:  check the state's statutory law, check for case law, and get the base's firearms AFI supplement (from SFS/S2 typically).

That said, I'll give you some free advice.

2)  JURISDICTION & FEDERAL PROTECTION.  Most states highly regulate CCW and/or open carry.  You are generally subject to the state laws of where ever you are physically present with regard to guns.  There is no federal get out of jail free card (other than LEOSA, which doesn't apply to most military people) with regard to state gun laws for military people.

If you get transferred to, say, New York, and carry your handgun on a Florida CCW permit, you're committing a crime.  Federal law will not help you, unless you can invoke the FOPA safe travel provisions.  FOPA won't even help you in some states (like NY/NJ); you'll likely beat the charges but may not beat not the arrest (and seizure of your guns).

THIS IS NOT A "GREY AREA" -- YOU GENERALLY HAVE TO FOLLOW THE STATE LAWS OF WHERE YOU ARE PHYSICALLY LOCATED.  IN MANY STATES FIREARMS LAW VIOLATIONS CARRY FELONY CONVICTIONS.

Some states have exceptions or carve outs for military in their firearms laws (for example, to possess standard capacity magazines in a state where they are banned, or carry a handgun without a permit or something).  Nearly always these carve outs require you to be doing something in accordance with your official duties.  That generally means in uniform, with authorization from your commanding officer on G-series orders.  You MAY be able to use participation in a CMP service rifle/pistol event to qualify for "official duties."    Talk to JAG/ADC, a local attorney, and your commander for that scenario.

The FOPA is important to know about but won't protect you unless you're "just passing through."

Bear in mind there is no federal protection for accessories, semiautomatic rifles, etc.  So, if you own a 17 round mag (aka evil high capacity magazine) for your glock and an AR-15  with a flash hider (aka evil assault weapon) and get transferred to, say, California -- you better plan on getting a storage unit in Reno.  In some states even simple possession of commonly owned firearms and accessories can be a serious felony.  Plan ahead before a PCS to a blue state and scrub your HHG for "contraband" to separate it out before the movers come.

3)  WHAT TO DO.  Go read Handgunlaw.net for a quick summary before entering a new state.  They are pretty good about summarizing things.  There are a few scenarios you'll run into.

- Constitutional Carry:  Carry on, open or concealed, no permission slips required.

- Unlicensed Open Carry:  Carry openly, no permission slips required.  Get a good holster like a Safariland ALS.  You may want to exercise this right while you wait for a local CCW permit if you need one.

- Permitted Carry (concealed or open):  There are a few cases here, but the bottom line is you need some sort of permission slip to carry legally.  You can either (A) get their CCW or (B) hold a CCW from a state they extend reciprocity to.  We'll go from least to most restrictive in section 4.

4)  RECIPROCITY SCENARIOS

BEST CASE (other than constitutional carry):  The best case is that the state extends reciprocity to holders of non-resident permits from states that are easy to get permits from.  Georgia is an example.  For example, you can get a New Hampshire non-resident permit by mailing them a check even if you've never been to NH.  Florida non-resident is almost as easy.  So just get a NH or FL non-resident permit by mail and you'll be good.

I think its a decent idea for military members to maintain a FL, UT, or NH non-resident permit.  The cost is fairly low, they're good for years, they're accepted across most of the country, and if something happens to your resident permit (can't renew, lose it, etc) then you're covered until you get your primary permit replaced.

RESIDENT ONLY VERSION ACCEPTED :  Bad news -- some states won't honor the non-resident version of the permit.  They want you to hold a resident permit from somewhere, and they must have reciprocity from that state.  Pennsylvania is a good example.  They'll honor a Resident Florida permit, but not the non-resident version.  This means that it behooves you to establish and maintain residency (and a resident permit) from a state that has wide reciprocity.  Generally, your domicile is where you vote, pay taxes (indicated on your LES), and have an intent to return to.  Many military folks have domiciles in TX, FL, or VA, so if that's you, you will want to get your state's permit.  Be aware that establishing residency somewhere can have tax and other implications so be wise about it.

Some states are easier than others to maintain "residency" for carry purposes.  For example, if they want a requal or refresher training every few years or want you to show up physically at the sheriff's office for a new photo, that is a PITA if you now live halfways across the country.

Some states will give a "resident" permit to military stationed in the state even if you don't establish a domicile there.  Be careful that you don't mess up your domicile and end up with tax implications.  You may have to surrender such a permit when you PCS.  This is how South Carolina worked last time I looked into it.

POOR OR NO RECIPROCITY STATES:  As you get to more restrictive states, some of them won't extend reciprocity to many states, and a few have zero reciprocity.  For example, Connecticut does not honor anyone else's permits.  You must have a CT permit to carry there.  In this case, you have to get their permit.  Most of these states will offer a non-resident version.

NO RECIPROCITY & "MAY ISSUE" PERMITS:  The bad news is that if they have poor reciprocity, there's a good chance the permits are "may issue."  That means the authorities "may issue" you a permit if they feel like it.  I would highly suggest consulting an attorney or the local state 2A organization before you apply for a "may issue" permit so you know what you're getting into.  If you go about it poorly then you may be rejected; this is bad because most other CCW applications will ask if you've ever been denied a permit, and you'll have to explain that Bumistan, NY denied your permit because they only issue to donors to the sheriff's election campaign and you didn't cut a check for the fundraiser.  When you are PCSing somewhere, the county or city you live in may end up controlling the "may issue" process.  By living one county over you may have a reasonable sheriff who will actually issue (this is often the case in California), so that may be a factor when you househunt.

5)  DON'T INVITE THE MAN INTO YOUR LIFE AND KNOW YOUR RIGHTS.

So -- context matters in this section.  Know where you are stationed and what the local culture about firearms is like.

Some other posters suggest disclosing the presence of a firearm to police all the time.  I would instead suggest looking up whether you are required to do so.  If you are required to do so, then tell them.  Otherwise, don't bring it up.  Its not relevant to your traffic ticket for going 40 in a 35 zone.  Never, ever consent to a search or seizure.  Discreetly record the encounter.  Have an attorney on speed dial.   If the situation allows, safely put the firearm and accessories in a locked container compliant with the FOPA before the traffic stop.

This is vitally important if you're in a state that has gun laws that are difficult to comply with or carry draconian penalties, like those in the north east or west coast.  Even if you THINK you've complied with all the restrictions and requirements there's a chance the cop could arrest you "just because."  As an out of stater with out-of-state plates you may be at higher risk for being hassled as well.

Once you've been arrested on a gun charge (even if its bogus and gets thrown out the moment your attorney shows up) then expect the military to drop administrative action on you, even if the criminal charges are later dismissed.

The police may search anyways (Terry Frisk) so ensure you're in compliance with state laws regarding magazine capacity, etc.  It also helps to make sure that any gun stuff in your vehicle is in a locked case (even a briefcase will do), which is not typically subject to a Terry Frisk.  A previous poster said "concealed means concealed!"  Well, guess what -- the cops can search you and the "grabbable area" of your vehicle for weapons with only "reasonable articulable suspicion."  No probable cause or warrant required.  That can land you in hot water quick in some restrictive states (think MD, NY, CA, etc).  We're talking, typically, multiple felony charges for carrying a regular Glock 19 without a permit in one of those states.  Which is probably career ending; even if your attorney cuts a deal to get you out of the worst state charges, I'd expect administrative action like an LOR from the military side.

If you're in a gun friendly jurisdiction then there's less risk of the local police jamming you up on bogus charges or "going fishing" to find a technical violation, but if you find yourself transferred to somewhere like New York, Maryland, or New Jersey then you need to protect yourself from a legal risk point of view.

This may sound a bit paranoid, but go buy the Area Defense Counsel lunch and ask them their opinion on volunteering information to the police during an investigative detention (aka "fishing expedition").  Every ADC and attorney I've ever talked to suggests keeping your mouth shut and never ever granting permission to search.  Even police will typically admit that you shouldn't talk to them if they're questioning.  If the police initiated an interaction with you, its likely not for your benefit.  They're probably fishing.  Google "James Duane" and "Don't Talk to the Police."

This is tough for military folks as we are trained to be forthright and trust authority figures, especially other people in uniforms.  Just be aware that the values and priorities of agencies vary highly across the country.  As a military person don't assume that the values you grew up with in region X are the same as are shared by the people of State Y.

6)  DEALING WITH BASE.

As a general rule it is prohibited to bring deadly weapons into federal facilities, and its double plus illegal (felony) to bring them into federal buildings (18 USC 930).

Generally bringing guns onto base (not into a building) contrary to policy is only a trespassing and Article 92 issue for violating regs.  However, there are other federal laws that can kick in like the Gun Free School Zones Act.  If on active duty you can expect at a minimum administrative action and potentially an Article 92 or other UCMJ action.  Dependents can expect to be barred from base, formally trespassed from the property, and maybe some sort of misdemeanor charge (unlikely).  There may be add-on state charges if there's dual jurisdiction.

Note that the federal law allows possession if authorized.  This is where the base commander comes in.  The AF has chosen to allow each base commander to implement their own procedures/policy for their installation.  There are three main flavors of policy:

A)  No carry other than official duties.  If you aren't OSI, you ain't concealed carrying.
B)  LEOSA authorized.  Some bases will let LEOSA folks carry.  This is not most AF members.
C)  Something more permissive.  Nellis is probably the best right now.  They'll let any AD, reserve, guard member or dependent with a valid CCW bring their sidearm on base and store it in their vehicle for up to 24 hours.  You can't carry outside your car but you can at least go to and from work with a gun.  The Nellis policy allows a loaded gun to be stored so you can just take the whole holster off and lock up the holster & gun together -- no administrative gun handling that is likely to lead to negligent discharges.

Some bases have rod and gun or hunt clubs.  Its hit or miss what the rules are for that.  I've actually seen a number of local policies where there was literally no way to comply with the base firearms AFI supplement and go shooting at the skeet club.  The Security Forces just "selectively enforced" (i.e. chose not to enforce) the policy forbidding firearms.  In other cases there are hoops to jump through (registration, etc).  Usually you must travel directly from the gate to the range and then out (so you can't throw your guns in the trunk and go shooting after work).

If you live on base, there is often a provision for registering your firearms and either storing them in the armory or transporting them to your quarters.  There are often storage requirements.  If you are TDY there may be an option to store firearms in the armory; it often requires a CC's signature on the standard registration form so coordinate before going TDY.

Many bases want the guns unloaded and cased separate from ammo before you go to your quarters/the armory/the rod and gun club.  This can be dangerous for the CCWer in an enclosed vehicle -- any administrative handling brings a risk of a negligent discharge.  When I lived on a base where this was the policy I actually got a gun with an external safety as it provided one more layer between me an a negligent discharge in my car.  Another strategy is empty chamber carry -- I don't recommend it because a gun in condition 3 is basically an expensive club, but it does make clearing the pistol faster and easier in the car before you go through the gate.  I'll shamefully admit when I lived on base occasionally I did this out of laziness more than anything else.

If you think your base's policy should be updated then I encourage you to contact your chain of command and the security forces S2.  Ask for a copy of the policy first so you can read it carefully.  Draft some suggested changes and have a JAG look at them over lunch.  Copying the Nellis AFB policy would be a fantastic start for most places.

7)  I HEARD CCW WAS AUTHORIZED ON BASE NOW THOUGH!

Fake News.  In the closing year of the Obama administration, the Pentagon updated DODI 5210.56 to theoretically allow a pathway to CCW on base.  Read DODI 5210.56 carefully and you'll find that its a process that is nearly impossible to comply with, and needs to be re-authorized on a regular basis.  I'd be shocked if anyone actually is carrying anywhere in DOD under the new DODI 5210.56.

Spoiler Alert:  Making it easier to carry guns was not a priority for the Obama administration.  This is just my guess, but I suspect that they just decided to get out in front of this issue as Congress was starting to make noise about putting something in the NDAA.  Rather than accepting whatever Congress came up with (which might actually let people carry guns on base) the administration decided to draft something that on the surface looks like there's a way to carry (and they got a ton of press about it, and defused congressional action entirely), but in reality is so convoluted and impossible to comply with that in practice it will never happen.

I am not aware of any changes to DODI 5210.56 in the last two years.  Despite much talk from senior leaders the actual process is the same.

I'll also say that most commanders will inherently be risk averse about this.  After the Ft Hood shooting the base commander was promoted.  The fact is that if a bunch of military folks on base get shot up then its an unpredictable unpreventable tragedy, or maybe some intel agency's fault.  If the base/CC allows carry of some sort and one guy has a negligent discharge on base, then that base/CC is probably toast.  It takes a commander with courage and a certain set of values to trust their personnel to transport firearms on base.

Finally, there are some programs like the unit marshal program that you can ask your CC to look into.  That entails getting some folks in the unit officially armed up with issue sidearms at work as a randomized force protection measure.  Its not really "CCW on base" when you go to the commissary but it is a valuable FP tool.

😎 GOOD NEWS.

The NDAA a few years ago prohibited commanders from making rules about your guns OFF BASE.  This stemmed from US Army Alaska (and a few other places) forbidding soldiers from carrying even off-duty, off-base and making rules about storage, etc.  What you do off base is your business.

When buying guns, you are considered to be a resident of where your PCS orders station you.  This means you can buy handguns or long guns where you are stationed.

9)  A FEW USEFUL THINGS

Having an FFL03 (Curios and Relics) license can be quite helpful.  It costs $30.  The value for military members is two folks:

1)  You can acquire C&R guns (older ones) in interstate commerce.  That means if you're TDY somewhere and see a neat older gun you can get it.  There are some handguns that could be pressed into self defense roles (CZ82 is probably the best) on the C&R list, and in a few years, ARs and Berettas will start coming onto the list too.

2)  Common carriers (UPS, etc) often want to mail from an FFL to an FFL.  If you have an FFL, then they'll accept your package to mail a gun to yourself.  Shipping a gun to yourself is often the easiest way to deal with certain PCS scenarios.  If you don't have the C&R 03, then the common carrier may not let you ship through them, so you'll have to pay a FFL to do it for you.

The FFL03 takes a few weeks to get in the mail so plan ahead if you have a PCS coming up.  Especially useful if you don't want to hand carry guns through somewhere like Canada or New York, and if you don't want the movers handling them.

Consider joining something like Armed Citizens Legal Defense Network.  I like ACLDN because they have a bunch of local attorneys in their rolodex.  When you move every few years its handy to have that kind of info to throw into your phone before a PCS.

 

About me:  I'm an NRA instructor (to include the Personal Protection Outside the Home course) and have dealt with CCW across the country from the northeast to Constitutional Carry land.  I've also worked with attorneys on CCW issues.  I've dealt with the hoops to hunt on base, and spoken with wing kings and JAGs about on base carry policies (and how to improve them).  I've also worked force protection with the security forces, know the AFIs, and have helped coordinate on local base policies. 

Edited December 6, 2018 by rustic313

[HossHarris]

TL:DR

but important note from 3).....

the website is handgunlaw.US 

[fire4effect]

I think some have touched on FOPA and this case (Revell v. Port Authority)certainly did too. Long story short Mr. Revell found himself on an unexpected stop with a firearm in Newark Airport and ended up with a several day stay at Rikers. The arresting officer Scott Erickson of the Port Authority Police probably could have let Mr. Revell go on his way but instead at least my opinion took the chance to make life miserable for an out of state traveler and gun owner just because he could. My takeaway was if I found myself in a similar situation I would have gotten a rental car and gotten the HE!! out of the jurisdiction regardless of the cost. On another note I have spent time at McGuire/Dix/Lakehurst and came across some great people but I'll never go back there voluntarily.

[brickhistory]

So, recently became a TX resident since we bought our forever home in the Hill Country.

Job on Kelly.  CCW verboten.

Wrote TX Senator Cornyn since Ted was in the midst of a close election and his opponent would've been anti-gun.

Asked why since DoD Policy allows installation commanders the option to allow CCW on their base and other bases in Texas, i.e., Dyess do allow it, why does JBSA, led by a USAF one-star, decide differently?

Got my "thank you for your interest in national defense, i.e., fcuk off" letter from JBSA.  I'm familiar with them since I've written dozens of them myself back in the day regarding jet noise.

I argued that the policy denied me my 2nd Amendment right to self-defense during the rural and less than great urban environment I have to drive to/from work, as well as the thousands of other JBSA personnel in similar circumstances.

JBSA's response turned that argument on it's head saying, essentially, "with some 89,000 personnel affected by our policy, we have to not allow carry."

So, to all you TX residents, holders of CCWs recognized in TX and stationed in the JBSA megalopolis, I encourage you to write either Senator Cornyn - so that the same drum beat gets made again and again and some staffer finally gets the clue that a lot of people are interested in the topic-

or your local gun-friendly Senator/Congresscritter to ask why your 2nd Amendment rights are not worth it to one base commander as well as the effect on thousands of other law-abiding citizens who work/travel on JBSA.

DoD Directive 5210.56, Section 4, allows individual installation commanders the decision to allow CCW or not.

AFI 31-01, Integrated Defense, can restrict the DoD instruction, depending on how the base crafts its self-defense plan.  It is this "gotcha" that JBSA is hanging its hat, saying only LEO can carry.

If enough affected folks are irritating enough, maybe, probably not, but maybe, the asspain will cause a change.

If not, there's some satisfaction in causing The Man to waster admin time/brainpower in responding to each Congressional inquiry received.  You can make your Congressional request via e-mail/phone, etc.  Takes maybe 10 minutes.  Worth it to try and stir the pot.

[M2]

Brick

Welcome to Texas and the assfuckery that is JBSA.   Have tried fighting that dragon before and was pretty much told it won't change.  It is sad that no one can be trusted to carry on based other than LEOs, especially after the shooting on Medina Annex in April 2016 where a squadron commander--Lt. Col. William “Bill” Schroeder--was killed by a disgruntled TSgt who somehow wasn't stopped by the rule of no personal firearms on base.  Given how ridiculous the "active shooter" response was to that event (I had to go through my organization and lock office doors as most thought it was just an exercise), and subsequent training is equally ludicrous (about as effective as "duck and covering" during a nuclear explosion), it is clear the policy is simply a CYA for the 502 ABW/CC  so she/he has a chance at a second star.  It doesn't matter if more people are killed, or retirees needlessly hassled because they have personal firearms in their RVs when they spend the night at Fam Camp; one person's promotion possibilities takes priority.

I guess our lives just aren't important enough... 

[lloyd christmas]

There are plenty of useful and well written posts here with regard to differing laws and situations.  I find it interesting that most folks focus on the simple issues like traffic stops or just traveling through different states.  You have to be prepared to defend yourself legally if you actually have to use your weapon.  That is the starting point for me.  I will not open myself up to any gray area at all no matter how gun friendly the state I live in is.  I recently moved and I am in the process of getting my concealed carry in my new state.  I am not looking for loop holes or ways to maybe keep the concealed carry permit I have from my old state.  I will spend the 5 hours in class and the 65 bucks and just get a new one.