Involuntary Mobilizations in the Guard/Reserves

[Guardian]

Sadly

[kapilot]

Worth knowing.

[SocialD]

Thought I'd bump this back to the top.  Got more than just a rumor that they may be starting to non-vol 11Fs from the ANG here soon.  Should be interesting to see how this pans out.  If this happens it will be interesting to see if there is a spike in papers being dropped like supposedly happened with the reserve KC-135s going to 120-day deployments.  

[hindsight2020]

well, I guess we'll see how much people are willing to do for the sake of "getting to fly a fighter". My guess is the BTDT crowd will punch to the IMA/Cat-E world, since there's really nowhere left to 1288 to in order to avoid the combat desk non-vol these days, save for AGR status which currently only individually mobilizes under the very *bottom rung of the pyramid posted above.  Frankly *that's only reason I'm still around in the capacity I am, instead of cutting stab trims in some guppy POS for 15% B-fund and more TAFB-and-family than I bargained for in this fickle so-called vocational choice.

I suppose those TSPs look better now by comparison. Maybe. Messed up thing is it is my understanding you can't even dwell out of an invol IA by participating in those. Double stuffing. But don't quote me on that one wrt the Guard side, I only know about the AFRC side. Honestly, the non-dwell bit would be the thing that would make me punt at the job on the spot, even if I didn't have a 20 year letter; I don't care if they're letting me fly the Space Shuttle for the trouble. That would be a bridge too far to me. 

[gearhog]

59 minutes ago, hindsight2020 said:

well, I guess we'll see how much people are willing to do for the sake of "getting to fly a fighter". My guess is the BTDT crowd will punch to the IMA/Cat-E world, since there's really nowhere left to 1288 to in order to avoid the combat desk non-vol these days, save for AGR status which currently only individually mobilizes under the very *bottom rung of the pyramid posted above.  Frankly *that's only reason I'm still around in the capacity I am, instead of cutting stab trims in some guppy POS for 15% B-fund and more TAFB-and-family than I bargained for in this fickle so-called vocational choice.

I suppose those TSPs look better now by comparison. Maybe. Messed up thing is it is my understanding you can't even dwell out of an invol IA by participating in those. Double stuffing. But don't quote me on that one wrt the Guard side, I only know about the AFRC side. Honestly, the non-dwell bit would be the thing that would make me punt at the job on the spot, even if I didn't have a 20 year letter; I don't care if they're letting me fly the Space Shuttle for the trouble. That would be a bridge too far to me. 

I know 2 people who punted within the last month. One walked away from a guaranteed AGR from now till retirement and the other left a full time tech position. First guy was happy to pay back the AGR pilot bonus he recently received.

[FUSEPLUG]

On 4/4/2019 at 3:51 PM, SocialD said:

Thought I'd bump this back to the top.  Got more than just a rumor that they may be starting to non-vol 11Fs from the ANG here soon.  Should be interesting to see how this pans out.  If this happens it will be interesting to see if there is a spike in papers being dropped like supposedly happened with the reserve KC-135s going to 120-day deployments.  

Thanks for the intel.  I'll be shocked if this is just contained within the Guard 11F community.  Especially since they seem so disposable at this point... 😳

Pretty shitty state of affairs when the Guard guys start "voting with their feet."  I'm ready.

[SocialD]

23 hours ago, hindsight2020 said:

well, I guess we'll see how much people are willing to do for the sake of "getting to fly a fighter". My guess is the BTDT crowd will punch to the IMA/Cat-E world, since there's really nowhere left to 1288 to in order to avoid the combat desk non-vol these days, save for AGR status which currently only individually mobilizes under the very *bottom rung of the pyramid posted above. 

LOL ya, most of my peers and I are well past the, will do anything to "get to fly a fighter" stage of our lives.  My prediction is that anyone with 20 years will just get out and guys who are short will look for the gigs you mentioned, or just get out as well.    

 

23 hours ago, hindsight2020 said:

I suppose those TSPs look better now by comparison. Maybe. Messed up thing is it is my understanding you can't even dwell out of an invol IA by participating in those. Double stuffing. But don't quote me on that one wrt the Guard side, I only know about the AFRC side. 

I'm not 100% on that and would have to research.  It's my understanding that it's dependent up on what status you went on the TSP...12301d or 12304b (vol vs non-vol).  I'm thinking that the guys who chose non-vol would be protected by dwell.

 

9 minutes ago, FUSEPLUG said:

Thanks for the intel.  I'll be shocked if this is just contained within the Guard 11F community.  Especially since they seem so disposable at this point... 😳

Pretty shitty state of affairs when the Guard guys start "voting with their feet."  I'm ready.

You're probably right, I was just passed info wrt 11Fs.  It seems as if the AF is hell-bent on wrecking the ANG and NGB is letting it happen.  They're basically gutting our LRS and MX leadership (E and O) in a year we're scheduled to deploy an aviation package (plus man alert back home).  Their (NGBs) answer when pushed back is that you have other Guard units in your state, lean on them to get the aviation package deployed/redeployed.  I imagine this will start the process of gutting the Guard of it's highly experienced, full time force.  People with 20 years will start jumping on those Title-5 (non-deployable) gigs, or the Guard will turn into the AD where you can't keep experience...which is why they're doing this in the first place.  

[AirGuardianC141747]

It’s sad to have seen the foundation of this process being laid out around 2013-15 time frame. AD pressuring the the Guard with a full court press in so many areas we couldn’t keep up (we’re undermanned in staff on so many programs vs Big Blue) and our higher leadership distracted with so many events to let the whole enchilada slip by. Gov shutdowns, Sequestration, limiting flying slots to the ARC as barter material, C-130H units left to hang out in the wind fighting for mission sets, niche missions being pressured, overtaken or dissolved, Long term Caribbean/South America missions being shared/dispersed to the AD, Afghan flight training, mixing of ANG assets from keeper jets to in the pool, etc, etc, etc, it’s “divide and conquer” even though we had the edge politically on many fronts which has been eroded significantly every year. States with more than two or even one unit were and still are under attack. ANG leadership did pushback, we workerbees concurred and promised that a max exodus would ensue at some point if we could not plug the dam. Too many holes, not enough plugs, let alone anything useful to turn the tide as I can see now. Anthrax was one thing, this is another where feet will do the talking unfortunately... I went to an AOC in 2015 and as I was leaving in 2017 the deployment billets which they had always been protected from started to come down. 

Foundation of wood and rebar constructed 2013-15, cement churned and laid down over units periodically 2015-2017 (backshops) and now the cement is beginning to cover and harden as the new normal 2017-2019. Typical 5 year plan. Sorry we were unable to change hearts and minds of our Leaders which leads to voting by feet.

Concur: 20 years and over will split, those with 10-15 years or less depart if they can and 15-19years have the hardest decision to make. 

[Gazmo]

Concur: 20 years and over will split, those with 10-15 years or less depart if they can and 15-19years have the hardest decision to make. 

The hardest part is finding an alternate gig, but there are enough vacant Cat E and IMA opportunities out there and if you find the right one it makes the decision a lot easier for a 15-19 year guy. The juice just isn't worth the squeeze anymore for the 100 points and the extra $25-30k per year, which in reality doesn't turn into extra money if you are an airline guy. If anything it's a net loss.

[hindsight2020]

Airline guys who are paying attention always understood the Guard/Reserve job as an insurance policy, not extra cash. The issue today is that the value of that insurance diminishes in some of their eyes when they believe the airline environment to be so recession-proof that they don't need the paycut in the Guard/Res. And I'm talking about the guys without 20 year letters. History says they're wrong, but the merits of the mandatory retirements are also a different dynamic than the circumstances that created the Lost Decade. Of course there's also the juniority reprieve most use the mildrop/milleave for, civilian-only historical resentment and bad press about that little item notwithstanding.

 

All that said, I concur, at some point the BS becomes so lifestyle-altering for the family that it truly is worth risking a furlough open vest. It truly has become that bad, and I say that as a mil full-timer with no particular desire to go airlines at this stage in my life.

[Chida]

The ARC isn’t the only furlough insurance anymore. The never ending war(s) have created the contractor segment which pays quite well in comparison. If you’re gonna deploy anyway, might as well make it count during your (probably short) supposed furlough.


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[Insert name]

On 4/5/2019 at 11:38 PM, AirGuardianC141747 said:

It’s sad to have seen the foundation of this process being laid out around 2013-15 time frame. AD pressuring the the Guard with a full court press in so many areas we couldn’t keep up (we’re undermanned in staff on so many programs vs Big Blue) and our higher leadership distracted with so many events to let the whole enchilada slip by. Gov shutdowns, Sequestration, limiting flying slots to the ARC as barter material, C-130H units left to hang out in the wind fighting for mission sets, niche missions being pressured, overtaken or dissolved, Long term Caribbean/South America missions being shared/dispersed to the AD, Afghan flight training, mixing of ANG assets from keeper jets to in the pool, etc, etc, etc, it’s “divide and conquer” even though we had the edge politically on many fronts which has been eroded significantly every year. States with more than two or even one unit were and still are under attack. ANG leadership did pushback, we workerbees concurred and promised that a max exodus would ensue at some point if we could not plug the dam. Too many holes, not enough plugs, let alone anything useful to turn the tide as I can see now. Anthrax was one thing, this is another where feet will do the talking unfortunately... I went to an AOC in 2015 and as I was leaving in 2017 the deployment billets which they had always been protected from started to come down. 

Foundation of wood and rebar constructed 2013-15, cement churned and laid down over units periodically 2015-2017 (backshops) and now the cement is beginning to cover and harden as the new normal 2017-2019. Typical 5 year plan. Sorry we were unable to change hearts and minds of our Leaders which leads to voting by feet.

Concur: 20 years and over will split, those with 10-15 years or less depart if they can and 15-19years have the hardest decision to make. 

Mind explaining what this means for guys just getting into it? I know quite a few like myself who have a few years in from another services (reserves) and just got picked up in the last year for UPT. How will this effect us? I don't understand half the acronyms thrown around here but everyone seems sour and it's pretty concerning. Especially if what we were sold on (deployment lengths) is going to be pulled out from under us.

[gearhog]

18 hours ago, Insert name said:

Mind explaining what this means for guys just getting into it? I know quite a few like myself who have a few years in from another services (reserves) and just got picked up in the last year for UPT. How will this effect us? I don't understand half the acronyms thrown around here but everyone seems sour and it's pretty concerning. Especially if what we were sold on (deployment lengths) is going to be pulled out from under us.

I believe he's saying there has been a massive overall erosion of the quality of a Guard/Reserve career in the last 5 years. It will not get better.

Older folks are seeing fewer good deals (Coronet Oak) and fewer opportunities to augment their paycheck.

Increasing mission/currency/training/deployment requirements. Decreasing manning/funding.

Every aspect the of job is increasing in complexity at exponential rate. What were once simple tasks are bureaucratic nightmares that depend on technology that doesn't work.

That said, it is possible to Heisman a lot of BS. As a new guy, please enjoy the fact that you will get to fly. Be competent, current, and safe, but do not become overly invested in anything outside of manipulating the controls of an aircraft. It will not pay dividends. Spend your ambition and energy building a solid life/career outside the AF/ANG/AFR.

 

[Gazmo]

Keep in mind, most of us in the bitter and jaded category have been around the flagpole 15-20 years already and have seen the steady decline of moral in the ARC. As a new guy, just keep a good attitude, keep your head up and fly. It still is one of the best jobs in the world for a young CGO. As you get older and more experienced, you may come across some better options for you and your family.

[AirGuardianC141747]

Thanks Torqued! Nailed it. 

After 24 years plus, the Reserve Component roller coaster has always had its ups and downs but it’s been always on the same mountain coming down. No new mountain to start from so far.

As Gazmo stated, enjoy the opportunities and keep a great attitude, enjoy the ability to serve your country and take care of your family with future endeavors.

If you’re somewhat new to the game, what we have called the new-normal every couple of years is just normal for ya’ll. With no elephant memory to those so-called good times, you won’t be depressed like us older wrinkles in the fabric.... Even when I started, it wasn’t the club it used to be so I was told and showed with polaroid photos. 

Make good life long friends, cuz that’s who you will be fighting with and for!

[AirGuardianC141747]

Those with 15-19 years, it’s very doable and proactive to get that line number and keep coming back for good times/not so good times for Uncle Sam. I highly recommend gaining a line number AFTER 15 years of accrued AD time total, cuz there might be a chance to to garner 5 more years of AD time for annual Uncle Sam Sugar/Tricare for life you earned which falls under USERRA and you keep your seniority number (hopefully your at your forever airline).

”You never make the shot you don’t take!”

[Insert name]

On 4/11/2019 at 9:30 AM, torqued said:

I believe he's saying there has been a massive overall erosion of the quality of a Guard/Reserve career in the last 5 years. It will not get better.

Older folks are seeing fewer good deals (Coronet Oak) and fewer opportunities to augment their paycheck.

Increasing mission/currency/training/deployment requirements. Decreasing manning/funding.

Every aspect the of job is increasing in complexity at exponential rate. What were once simple tasks are bureaucratic nightmares that depend on technology that doesn't work.

That said, it is possible to Heisman a lot of BS. As a new guy, please enjoy the fact that you will get to fly. Be competent, current, and safe, but do not become overly invested in anything outside of manipulating the controls of an aircraft. It will not pay dividends. Spend your ambition and energy building a solid life/career outside the AF/ANG/AFR.

 

Thanks. I needed to read this. I've been trying to envision my future with my civilian job and balancing that with UPT coming up and then seasoning and of course UTA and deployments and then trying to balance my personal life, if I start a family etc. Obviously one step at a time, but it's nice to have insight. Career ambitions and goals and what's important evolve as an individual does and I like to have a rough plan ahead. Your last paragraph helped put things in perspective for me, just need to figure out how to balance it all.